Landing Fees

[skippydiesel]

Well there you go - One lives & learns.

 

I have been under the impression that ALL public listed/accessible  airfields must conform the the minimum standards  eg width, approach & departure, windsocks, etc

 

"Given you are meant to contact the owner/operator of. UNCR Airports prior to landing on them"

 

Again this is new to me - I have always understood that accessing an ERSA  listed airfield (open to the flying public) required no permission UNLESS so stated

 

"Might be with noting they don't have to specify PPR for this to apply."

 

As above - not my understanding - I guess the owner could ask you to leave, once landed but thats about the limit of their rights. 

 

ALA's are a diffrent matter. These are almost always private (inc. company) airfields/paddocks/ farm roads/etc, of unknown dimension & condition. Not listed in ERSA. Not required to comply with standards. You would be crazy not to seek permission to land, get advice on runway condition, hazards, etc. Landing on an ALA is completely at the pilots discretion.  Should their be a resulting incident, may not be covered by either the ALA owners or pilots insurance .😈

Edited Wednesday at 04:26 AM by skippydiesel

[Love to fly]

8 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Well there you go - One lives & learns.

 

I have been under the impression that ALL public listed/accessible  airfields must conform the the minimum standards  eg width, approach & departure, windsocks, etc

 

"Given you are meant to contact the owner/operator of. UNCR Airports prior to landing on them"

 

Again this is new to me - I have always understood that accessing an ERSA  listed airfield (open to the flying public) required no permission UNLESS so stated

 

"Might be with noting they don't have to specify PPR for this to apply."

 

As above - not my understanding - I guess the owner could ask you to leave, once landed but thats about the limit of their rights. 

 

ALA's are a diffrent matter. These are almost always private (inc. company) airfields/paddocks/ farm roads/etc, of unknown dimension & condition. Not listed in ERSA. Not required to comply with standards. You would be crazy not to seek permission to land, get advice on runway condition, hazards, etc. Landing on an ALA is completely at the pilots discretion.  Should their be a resulting incident, may not be covered by either the ALA owners or pilots insurance .😈

I'm guessing you didn't look at the link I posted, reposted here.  https://www.casa.gov.au/operations-safety-and-travel/aerodromes/uncertified-aerodromes#Usinganuncertifiedaerodrome

ALA's were in the ERSA when I learnt to fly 20 years ago.  At some stage they got renamed UNCR.  They are the same thing.   The Oaks is also shown as UNCR in ERSA.  Screenshot below.

[skippydiesel]

3 hours ago, BurnieM said:

I could not disagree with this more.

 

And it is up to the user of the info to ensure they are taking information ONLY from the airfield owners website.

 

Obviously I disagree -

 

Australia has ERSA . An official document, updated severs times a year, essentially the pilots bible of AU airfields.

 

All this talk about contacting owners, alternative web sites, etc, etc ad infinitum,  is just undermining, what should be the accepted standard - If its in ERSA, its the word of God! If it isn't, it doesn't exist!😈

[skippydiesel]

19 hours ago, Love to fly said:

I'm guessing you didn't look at the link I posted, reposted here.  https://www.casa.gov.au/operations-safety-and-travel/aerodromes/uncertified-aerodromes#Usinganuncertifiedaerodrome

ALA's were in the ERSA when I learnt to fly 20 years ago.  At some stage they got renamed UNCR.  They are the same thing.   The Oaks is also shown as UNCR in ERSA.  Screenshot below.

I have, belatedly,  checked out the web site & noted the recommendations therein.

Like you, I did my GA training, about 34 years ago. Different times, diffrent language and dare I say diffrent standards.

I like most humans am a creature of habit - I never payed any heed to the letters under the airfield abbreviation. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

As for the advise  - I am only in the habit of phoning the airfield owner/operates when it is so instructed in ERSA OR I have some concerns about the airfield services, etc 

😈

Edited Thursday at 12:23 AM by skippydiesel

[skippydiesel]

Just had a pleasant phone conversation with the ARO, Western Downs Regional Council, (I think he said he looks after 7 airfields) on the matter of lack of fee information in ERSA.

 

Got to say he sounded open to the desirably of having his airfield fee schedules in ERSA.

 

He did point out that ERSA updates don't follow the financial year, so making any fees posted therein out of sync with his (probably most) Council policy, to review/ change  fees,  at about this time.

 

Anyhow there is hope for change😈

[Moneybox]

I tried to open the Cue airport gate but somebody took the key. I crossed the fence, did what I needed to do and then when returning to the car is saw a cleaner there. I asked how he got in and was told the shire had removed the key from the lock box. Now I have to submit an application to park my plane at the airport. I hope they don’t start charging a fee. If they do I’m going to demand something in return like tie down anchorages. 

[skippydiesel]

Fascinating - Cue has significant airport  structures (from satellite) but only the one hanger (?) like building.

 

"Now I have to submit an application to park my plane at the airport."

Why?  You already have the cost effective solution "..... crossed the fence, did what I needed to do...."

 

😈

 

 

[Moneybox]

10 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Fascinating - Cue has significant airport  structures (from satellite) but only the one hanger (?) like building.

 

"Now I have to submit an application to park my plane at the airport."

Why?  You already have the cost effective solution "..... crossed the fence, did what I needed to do...."

 

😈

 

 

Not a lot of private aircraft here. One business owner and myself. He applied to build a hangar consisting of 2x40' containers with a well constructed roof between. He's since added a third container to act as a rear wall to the hangar.

There's a new gate key in the lock-box. 😆

 

 

[onetrack]

That design for a hangar is cheap and effective, provided the roof is well anchored. And the sea containers provide reasonably secure storage against the light-fingered members of the community.

[facthunter]

Store stuff in containers and It looks pretty Ordinary not long after.  Nev

[onetrack]

I've been storing equipment, parts and tools in sea containers since the early 1980's and the only time I've had any problems is when the container springs a leak in the roof.

So you need to inspect container roofs thoroughly for damage and corrosion before you purchase them, and inspect them regularly when you're using them.

 

They get dinged around when container lift operators drop other containers on them roughly, out of line with their lift/lock points on the corners. Then water lays in the dents, and it's usually salt-laden water, which acts fast to corrode the hi-tensile corten steel the roof is made from. Corten is supposed to be rust resistant, but it's not as rust resistant as the steel manufacturers try to make out.

 

Edited 15 hours ago by onetrack

[BrendAn]

8 hours ago, facthunter said:

Store stuff in containers and It looks pretty Ordinary not long after.  Nev

thats odd. worked out of containers for years. all our spares were in them . i don't remember any problems.

[Kiwi]

8 hours ago, facthunter said:

Store stuff in containers and It looks pretty Ordinary not long after.  Nev

We have tin roofs on ours, even added a gutter to collect the rain water.

12 years and they are still in great condition.

[facthunter]

I think it's mainly heat that has done the damage I'm referring to. Paint electrical Plastic and rubber. I can assure you I'm not making it up.  Nev

[BrendAn]

11 hours ago, Kiwi said:

We have tin roofs on ours, even added a gutter to collect the rain water.

12 years and they are still in great condition.

     Reply to nev not kiwi.Never said you were. 

Nearly all contractors in the goldfields had container workshops consisting of 2 40 footers with a roof in between. Some of the hottest conditions anywhere  and none of the problems you are coming out with.  Where did these problems take place.

[facthunter]

It was in Sydney so condensation may have done the damage. Any shed that drips Moisture at Night will damage plating and Paint and electrics. AND your aeroplane too especially from a rusted surface  with   dust.  The contents in this instance were restored Motorcycles and they were so badly affected as to be written off.  I knew the Fellow involved. Nev

[BrendAn]

20 minutes ago, facthunter said:

It was in Sydney so condensation may have done the damage. Any shed that drips Moisture at Night will damage plating and Paint and electrics. AND your aeroplane too especially from a rusted surface  with   dust.  The contents in this instance were restored Motorcycles and they were so badly affected as to be written off.  I knew the Fellow involved. Nev

That's horrible. Losing those bikes after all the work that goes into restoring them.

I think the difference here is we were in and out of the containers every day so plenty of air flow . 

For storage they are sealed so any water or moisture trapped in there would cause problems over time I guess.

 

[onetrack]

You can acquire big bags of moisture-absorbent chemicals that hang off the hooks inside sea containers. These are used to ensure the inside of the containers stay dry in transit.

I get them regularly from a huge glass merchant, they throw them out when they empty the containers. I'll get a photo of them next week in one of my containers. 

 

If the bikes went rusty inside the sea container, then the sea container was leaking and allowing water inside. Yes, the containers get very hot inside if they're not ventilated properly.

There's a big variation in ventilation between different containers, some have seriously inadequate ventilation, and some are good.

 

I've perforated small areas of the upper walls in of some of my containers to improve ventilation. But you must only drill small holes, or insects will find their way in.

You also need to install a cover over the holes, which stops rainwater getting in, in windy conditions.