Landing Fees

[onetrack]

Skippy, because you're dealing with bureaucracies, that's why - and local councils are the burgeoning repository of bureaucracy. Not to mention that councils have often "inherited" airstrips, and know little about aviation, and merely see the airstrip as another burden that costs them a lot in maintenance, but which yields very little by way of council income. Council employees rarely have time to expand on provision of information, apart from "core" council needs.

[RossK]

Skippy, if you want people to follow, you have to lead.

I think most here agree with you, the system we have isn't great, it works, but should be a lot clearer and I agree, should be in the ERSA ideally.

Do the ground work, find a way forward and then people will get on board.

In the meantime, we'll keep doing what we currently do as it's easier than blazing a trail to a better solution.

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

Skippy, because you're dealing with bureaucracies, that's why - and local councils are the burgeoning repository of bureaucracy. Not to mention that councils have often "inherited" airstrips, and know little about aviation, and merely see the airstrip as another burden that costs them a lot in maintenance, but which yields very little by way of council income. Council employees rarely have time to expand on provision of information, apart from "core" council needs.

All true , hardly a good reason for not attempting to improve the situaton - in short apathetic.😈

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, RossK said:

Skippy, if you want people to follow, you have to lead.

I think most here agree with you, the system we have isn't great, it works, but should be a lot clearer and I agree, should be in the ERSA ideally.

Do the ground work, find a way forward and then people will get on board.

In the meantime, we'll keep doing what we currently do as it's easier than blazing a trail to a better solution.

As above - More apathy.

 

I am not about leadership - I am about a popular movement to improve the private piloting environment.

 

When will Australians start to understand, that our government(s)/bureaucracy are staffed by public servants ie WE EMPLOY THEM. They hold their jobs at our pleasure. 

By not questing, you empower & embolden bureaucracy to impose whatever they wish on us, knowing we will "kowtow" to every ruling.

 

When there is a  government over reach (ASIC) you just accept it as part of life.

When there is a failure of fair trading (informe the pilot of airfield charges) you shrug your shoulders and going looking for the information elsewhere.

 

Apathy Rules! 😈

Edited 16 hours ago by skippydiesel

[onetrack]

No, it's not apathy, it's just the poor old council employees at the sharp end, having to deal with a multitude of bureaucratic requirements, not having enough time or funding to deal with remits that are outside everyday council demands.

As someone who has relatives working in council management/offices, I get stories every week of how disaffected ratepayers are always calling, wanting every single personal wish and demand met, when the employees already have their hands full, dealing with regular daily council demands.

They have to regularly manage unexpected events that call on council reserves of manpower and resources, and when someone demands a service that is either just solely benefiting the enquirer, or a very small number of affected people, the request goes way back down the line, because daily requirements that affect thousands of people, must be met first.

[skippydiesel]

12 minutes ago, onetrack said:

No, it's not apathy, it's just the poor old council employees at the sharp end, having to deal with a multitude of bureaucratic requirements, not having enough time or funding to deal with remits that are outside everyday council demands.

As someone who has relatives working in council management/offices, I get stories every week of how disaffected ratepayers are always calling, wanting every single personal wish and demand met, when the employees already have their hands full, dealing with regular daily council demands.

They have to regularly manage unexpected events that call on council reserves of manpower and resources, and when someone demands a service that is either just solely benefiting the enquirer, or a very small number of affected people, the request goes way back down the line, because daily requirements that affect thousands of people, must be met first.

Ye Gads! -

 

All I am asking for is, that airfield owners put their fees in ERSA. How hard can it be to performer this simple task, once per annum????

 

Almost all of your response is about the poor bureaucrat, that might be held to account for his/her Councils decisions - Mate that is their job!

 

"...when someone demands a service that is either just solely benefiting the enquirer, or a very small number of affected people,"

 

 If its a reasonable enquiry/request, that benefits just one tax/ratepayer, it should be done! - no procrastination, no delay - end of story. 

 

What I am asking for is likly to reduce the enquiries ie benefit the owner/user.

 

Even you might benefit ,from seeing the cost of using an airfield , in a single easily accessible location - ERSA!

 

😈

[RossK]

Apathy is correct Skip 😀

Populist movements lead by no-one rarely lead to an actual outcome.

Every cause needs a Champion.

I do actually agree with you on both ASIC and Landing fees in ERSA, but I've got other issues on my plate that are more important - to me anyway.

[facthunter]

Everyone will Prioritise their efforts. There's no shortage of things that can be done better.   Nev

[turboplanner]

3 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

"Please explain"

 

When someone (me) identifies a lack (no airfield fee schedule) in a vital document (ERSA) and starts to try & do something about it, the overwhelming response is indifference, followed by negativity and the occasional look warm supporter.

 

Why is there not 100% support of having as much relevant flight planning information as possible, in the one document (ERSA)????

 

Would you not preferer to (A) know what your costs will be up front (B) have the option/choice to land elsewhere to minimise/avoid the cost?

 

But noooooo you would rather search through generic documents, contact various parties, who may or may not have the information. 

 

How many of you, don't bother to find out what the fee schedule is, just accept that there will be a bill  (could be a shocker) and pay up without so much as a whimper?

 

Am I missing something here, what is the problem with trying to get airfield owner/operators to post their fees in ERSA ??

You haven't mentioned NAIPS; Have a look at the whole current NAIPS process. When planning a flight you get different information from different sources then do your plan. If  Landing Fees are a high priority, you might find a list there somewhere.

[pmccarthy]

Skippy in my post I started by agreeing with you then explained why, based on my experience, it was going to be a problem. I reckon you arced up a bit and I can't see why.

[KRviator]

7 hours ago, Thruster88 said:

We flew into Longreach last August for an overnight stay, beautiful flying weather, country looking magnificent, only 5 aircraft on site. Perhaps the 50m insurance scared everyone away.

 

Just looked at the website listed in the current ERSA for Longreach and there is no mention of any insurance requirements, what more can one do?

 

Just pointing out the discrepancy in logic.

Landing fees aren't always in ERSA but can be found "elsewhere". Airport conditions of use documents definitely aren't in the ERSA but are often found "elsewhere" and they occasionally have ridiculous requirements in them. Such as the extra $150 fee for "refueling on council land" (Warnervale) or requirement to wear a plane-proof vest when refueling your RV at the bowser (Cessnock) - or the requirement for stupid insurance coverage (Goldy, Townsville, Isa , Longreach, Launceston...)

Edited 11 hours ago by KRviator

[onetrack]

Quote

 requirement to wear a plane-proof vest when refueling your RV at the bowser

This is interesting. What does a plane-proof vest look like? Does it actually stop you from flying? 😄 😄 

[skippydiesel]

4 hours ago, RossK said:

Apathy is correct Skip 😀

Populist movements lead by no-one rarely lead to an actual outcome.

Every cause needs a Champion.

I do actually agree with you on both ASIC and Landing fees in ERSA, but I've got other issues on my plate that are more important - to me anyway.

You may like to reflect on the time & effort you have expended on the above, slight arrogant, response, when you could have spent a similar amount of time/effort in positively supporting my (& apparently your) position and still gone about your " more important" activities.

 

I will lead, if I must, however a leader requires followers/supporters, otherwise he is but a Don Quixote,  a joke to be ignored.

 

How about suggesting a person/position to contact, even a petition, etc?😈

Edited 10 hours ago by skippydiesel

[skippydiesel]

3 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

Skippy in my post I started by agreeing with you then explained why, based on my experience, it was going to be a problem. I reckon you arced up a bit and I can't see why.

I apologise if my frustration is showing, however I don't actually know to which response you are referring - please quote or specify.😈

Edited 10 hours ago by skippydiesel

[Garfly]

10 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

You may like to reflect on the time & effort you have expended on the above, slight arrogant, response, when you could have spent a similar amount of time/effort in positively supporting my (& apparently your) position and still gone about your " more important" activities.

 

How about suggesting a person/position to contact, even a petition, etc?😈

 

I think a good many of us are reflecting on the time and effort spent on this.  

[skippydiesel]

12 minutes ago, Garfly said:

 

I think a good many of us are reflecting on the time and effort spent on this.  

Should my Quixotic tilting yield a positive result, for all private pilots, I hope you will have the time to benefit.😈

Edited 10 hours ago by skippydiesel

[facthunter]

You've made the Landing fees topic into a Career. When does it end?. How many Posts NOW? Nev

[onetrack]

Skippy's like a dog that's found a bone! There's no way he's letting go of that bone, now!! 😄