bull

RAA decided to cut off the bleeding and risk from a stand alone Natfly that few were attending, spend a small portion of the money on Ausfly and increase spend taking meetngs and sponsoring flyins around AustraliaYes more travel costs but saving overall.

Pretty logical approach Id have thought

 

Losses are reported to be decreasing and there is a plan. Seems some might need to attend a meeting or two and hear what RAA actually has to say.

 

Possibly do you think values of property in regional centres firstly havent kept up with Sydney returns you indicate OR they were inflated originally.

 

By not doing something properly ....like records and tech management.... you can save plenty in the short term. Even produce a nice surplus. Grounded owners no doubt werent happy with that cut rate approach and it seems CASA werent either. The audits didnt come from nowhere, there was years of warnings.

 

If they stopped the printed magazine now, that members somehow saw as a “free” entitlement, the business would be close to or in the black.

My apologies to the moderater too,just have a different interpretation of attacking and robust discussion................

No apology needed Bull. It was an honest mistake but I have to say that I am laughing my head off that you thought I might be a moderator. I think Ian would rather sell his soul to the devil before he'd let me be a Mod.

If you are alone in your boat and you are not wearing a life jacket and you cannot swim or become disabled and you fall in there will be no-one there to rescue you. I presume that, like seat belts and bike helmets, the government has decided you should be protected - even prime ministers.

ah Col

Sorry but don't those people that have been attacking keith have to abide by the same rules that you have used to delete my ''comments and disagreements to some''the operative word that you have used being disagree!!! A little bit of a hypocritical attitude by you as a moderater I would think ....................(read the whole topic and follow the edit by Mods please. No hypocrisy, just trying to get the posters to play the topic, regardless of what it is,, not the person. People trying to win points by snide remarks, arrogance, personal put downs and insults WILL be edited. Just because someone disagrees with a post, being on one side of the discussion or the other, is no reason to put down the poster or person of differing opinions. We are all mature adults and according to the rules of the site, are expected to act as such. If you have a problem with the moderation, you are quite welcome to contact the owner of the site for his input. ....Mod)

Sorry Bull, but I still don't understand what you mean by that.

Bull, I'm sorry, but I don't understand your post. Are you saying I had your comments deleted? I think you're on the wrong track there

The moderation was done by the mod, no complaints from any member of the forum have been received. ...........MOD

2017 figures related to post #207Assets, Cash - $658,071.00

 

Assets Building - $896,285.00

 

Total - $1,554,356.00 vs expected $4,114,110.00

I have to say I got frustrated that the tone hadn't changed in this thread, and looked the information up myself.This is for the 2016 financial year.

 

Printing, Publication & Merchandise - $326,890.00 vs. $367,811.00 in 2012

 

Assets, Cash - $919,429.00

 

Assets Building - $896,285.00

 

Total - $2,192,570.00 vs expected $3,809,360.00

 

Other items which caught my eye:

 

Total Comprehensive deficit $227,535.00

 

Accommodation, meetings, travel $155,213.00 (up from $96,646.00)

 

Advertising, & Promotions $22,484.00

Turbs! A bit hyperbolic there my old sparring mate! I know that we are becoming an increasingly litigious society but surely the Australian way allows someone to disagree with another's viewpoint or opinion (sometimes with a degree or robustness and vigour that might be frowned on in other societies) without being accused of "attacking" someone?Have I misjudged this community, or is free speech not what it one was?

(free speech is to be encouraged, but play the topic not the man and leave snide remarks and innuendo out of it....mod) (hopefully not the "bush lawyers" in the ambiguous post earlier.) Play fair people.)

(read the whole topic and follow the edit by Mods please. No hypocrisy, just trying to get the posters to play the topic, regardless of what it is,, not the person. People trying to win points by snide remarks, arrogance, personal put downs and insults WILL be edited. Just because someone disagrees with a post, being on one side of the discussion or the other, is no reason to put down the poster or person of differing opinions. We are all mature adults and according to the rules of the site, are expected to act as such. If you have a problem with the moderation, you are quite welcome to contact the owner of the site for his input. ....Mod)

Keith: work is always the curse of the talking class. Everybody needs a break over this mad time.I look forward to your exposition of how the ELAAA would have handled the Jabiru situation.

 

In the meantime, I note that you have re-focussed your comments towards the CASA audit. Now, the problems that audit found in RAA administration were a product of the 'old' RAA administration. That is an incontrovertible fact of history. The 'shiny, new RAA' that you so castigate has to ensure that the manifold problems of the earlier RAA administration will never again intrude on recreational aviators to ground their aircraft, reduce their MTOW to single-seat aircraft when they had paid large sums of money in the belief that they would have an effective two-seat aircraft etc.

 

Not exactly a shining endorsement of the 'old' RAA.

 

A cynical person might question whether the discarded rump of the 'old' RAA that had been found so deficient by CASA might be the best people to lead recreational aviation into a bright new future.

(edited...mod) to make the new RAA seem all rosy when in actuality it is failing and falling into decline and anachy, Yes the old AUF did have problems but the financial management was 100% better then the so called educated proffesionals we have today,,,the old AUF ALWAYS WAS IN SURPLUS FUNDS with a substantial reserve fund that has now been degraded to the point of being in debt and requiring more funds from members to fund the new shiny GA club they have created............so Oscar there is always two sides to every argument (edited..Mod)

A minimal thin tech approach would probably have CASA grounding us all these days......... déjà vu?

Well if there is NO EVIDENCE that the Home built non uniform airframes are killing people left right and centre WHAT justification exists for ANY tech office involvement beyond creating a minimal touch document to cover things like rego renewal forms and where to paint your rego numbers?The only reason you logically need such a large and skilled/expensive tech office is the factory built ones that are out of factory support.

 

A minimal thin old school AUF tech was not needed for homebuilt airframes.

That's a bugger

It's locked & councilor drives out to unlock the gate, and there no (guaranteed) public phone airside.spacesailor

Just an aside:How do you contact the "owner/person in charge" of any property ( they don't put names on gates or roofs)

Wellington airstrip is council member. & could be changed any time.

 

spacesailor

cool:plane:

[edited...play the topic not the person. ...mod)

No one has settled the cost aspect of RAA. Perhaps the costs to run RAA are bound up in supporting the cheap end of the market with their non uniform designs and construction methods being built by a group whose skillset ranged from fantastic to abysmal out of materials of highly variable quality. I don't know the answer to the fair allocation of cost question and I think you are just guessing as well.

Well surely we can’t blame any material cost rise as being an RAA thing?Just what exact cost is it that has made it so hard?

 

Membership and registration costs are very reasonable imo (have you noticed how much more expensive it is to register a car now than it was in the auf heyday?)

 

If it is just registration have you considered lobbying for a cheaper rego for home built? I think I recall the RAA sending out an email a year or so ago discussing that but could be mistaken.

 

Costs have gone up across the board in nearly every avenue of life, it would be foolish of us to think that flying could be immune from that.

Just an aside:How do you contact the "owner/person in charge" of any property ( they don't put names on gates or roofs)

spacesailor

So what is stopping someone building and flying a cheap rag and tube Bull? What rules have been changed that restrict grass roots flying?Just because others like going faster in something more flash shouldn’t stop the grass roots flyers nor do I think the grass roots flyers should discourage those flashier types after all we are all airmen (and women).

 

Seeking for more freedoms across the board shouldn’t be frowned upon by anyone imo as long as it doesn’t cause more restrictions on the grass roots level.

 

Having said that we live in a society that seems to restrict more and more things to keep people ‘safe’ so we really need to stick together to make sure we keep it in check.

I'm not sure what the rules are but maybe if you own a bit of dirt and you fly below 300 feet you can do whatever you like - just a thought. Outside that space and you are playing in someone else's space and you start needing to play by their rules.

Oh the BS and drivel brigade are hard at defending the new Ga[RAA] that has destroyed ULTRALIGHT flying in Australia , and the ex GA mob pushing for more weight and cta access and Cessna,s in the shed etc are "'flying ''out of the closets on this post .Very very sad scenario for RAA aka AUF to have become and it will only get worse the way they are going. Ive never held back my disgust at RAA for what has happened to ""affordable fun flying''''in Australia and the dreams of many many young men and woman [who where not born with a silver spoon in their mouth to fly] has been crushed by the takeover of something that was very special ,very accessable and a whole heap of fun, and has been turned into THIS......, BY THE MOB who want to fly into cta with their old 172 but want to fly under the same rules as those pesky AUF fella,s,,,,,,,,Aaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh drives me nuts..................

Yes in my gt500 , but owners permission is required and as it has sold to the chinese I think that would be a mission, and also strip is very rough and large gravel [blue metal] Also is officially closed and was never opened. Now they do have a short grass strip along side the road to midge point that was used once but is now unmaintained and has very long grass on it and is unuseable. There is a strip at lakeside that is 1600 ft bitumen and is privately owned but welcomes visitors if you contact the owner first

.