bull

Agree. Bit like driving your private vehicle to work each day, raa plane should be judged same for similar use. Bulls comment would apply if doing a regular, payed (not share ) transport to work of a passenger in a RAA aircraft.

Still not RECREATIONAL is it??

 

 

CAR 206 defines commercial purposes and applies to RAAus operations. Based on this information there should be no reason you cannot use an RAAus aircraft for the purposes you have described.CIVIL AVIATION REGULATIONS 1988 - REG 206 Commercial purposes (Act, s 27(9))

But the RAA ops manual specificallystates , quote , for the purposes of educational, RECREATIONAL and research purposes,so raa has a different set of rules then GA as it always has had.

 

 

So an instructor can't fly their aircraft to a new location for work?I am sure instructing is not recreational, educational or research orientated a lot of the time for the PIC.

Instructors and schools have an exemption from the charter always have,i,m talking about the high end RAA flyers flying out to meet clients and the jetset boys flying the high speed sleek machines to work and back , ie ,,using the aircraft to achieve a financial gain

 

 

Good reason to keep your aircraft VH reg if you can. Plenty of doctors fly themselves to work in the remote parts.

Totally agree 88, and that is what GA is for,,,,,,,,NOT RECREATIONAL aviation, it is for RECREATION/FUN ETC not as a means of transport for work purposes.....

 

 

 

 

Hello all, I have posted this thread after having a discussion with Don Ramsay about pilots using their RAA aircraft as a form of daily transport and to visit clients for work purposes etc,,,,Now after looking through all the cao,s and the RAA operations manual it would seem that anyone doing these activities with an aircraft registered and flown by RAA certificate holders are in breach of the RAA operation manual this is the first paragraph of our current ops manual outlaying the rules with which RAA pilots fly! now what is the definition of recreation ,,,To me , using your aircraft as a form of transport for work purposes is NOT RECREATION and is outside our ops manual, therefore illegal and this argument could also be used by insurance people to deny a claim etc,,,,,What is every bodys thoughts on this subject????This is the wording from our current ops manual,,,,flying for educational, RECREATIONAL,and research purposes only,,,,,flying to work and back can not BY A LONG SHOT BE DEEMED RECREATION CAN IT?? https://www.raa.asn.au/storage/5-om-71-august-2016-single-pages.pdf

 

 

This would be the death of the true AUF as it almost impossible to get training on true ultralights or proper tail wheel craft as it is now in the north hope this is just rumours and not fact !

Sorry Doug but the LSA ex GA crowd have already killed the original reason for the formation of the AUF in the first place,RECREATIONAL FLYING,,,,everybody is missing the elephant in the room, THAT 70 % of the newer generation of lsa flying members flying under the rules of RAA are actually breaking those rules every day and a good lawyer would ensure that insurance for public liability ,[that the supporters of the raa hypocrisy] will tell you covers you ,,WILL not cover you if you are proven to be operating outside of the original ANO ie, Aircraft and certificate owners are NOT to use their aircraft for hire or REWARD,,,,HOW MANY PEOPLE DO YOU MEET AT AIRSHOWS FLYING RAA REGISTERED AIRCRAFT that ARE USING THAT AIRCRAFT TO FLY AROUND TO CLIENTS ,TO BUSINESS MEETINGS , TO DEMONSTRATE AIRCRAFT FOR POTENTIAL SALES ETC ie earning a REWARD from the use of said aircraft...…………….thereby operating outside of the original brief from CASA...……………..Ps thereis a huge difference between using a ga registered aircraft for this purpose, as ga do,s not have to operate to this brief from casa , so it is legal to use a private ppl and aircraft for this purpose,,,,BUT NOT AN RAA REGISTERED AIRCRAFT OR CERTIFICATE, AS IT IS SPECIFIC AND MUST BE OBEYED...is it not??????????

 

 

A tigermoth from the tigermoth museum in Mackay has had an engine failure whilst doing a joy flight and has managed to land the aircraft on roadworks Central Queensland Plane Spotting: Mackay Tiger Moth Museum De Havilland DH-82A Tiger Moth VH-CYA Makes Emergency Landing on the Weekend

 

 

I wonder who will pick up the bill for any loss?

One words.....MEMBERS

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILBTjFTtny8Back in the day when we where not wrapped in cotton wool and scared of everything,,,,sportair first test flight...…….

Great vid, shows how the Thruster got it's undeserved reputation. I am taking mine to Aus fly 2018 hope I don't ground loop it !

The sport air makes the t83 look like it,s a paraglider [slow] sportair only has a 503

Bull, cost was a huge factor for me as well. When I was 13 (back when dinosaurs roamed the earth) I had no money to speak of, just a burning desire to fly. So I joined the Canadian Air Cadets and worked my a** off studying, training, and competing for (one of a very few) gliding, and later on, powered flying scholarships. I believe Australia does the same with their Air League? Perhaps someone can confirm this?Bull, I suppose I’m saying that enthusiasm, dedication and drive to that extent isn’t often shown to aviation these days by the young (with a few notable exceptions). Perhaps the world has moved on, and other more financially lucrative pursuits are more enticing.

I see many young people prepared to go for thrill-seeking tandem parachute “experiences”, but if study, and a serious dedication of time & effort are involved (as with becoming a pilot) far fewer seem interested.

 

...Oh well, just the musings of a much more senior “big kid”, who has never lost his enthusiasm for aviation in all its forms:plane:

 

 

This thread has NOTHING to do with the RAAus flyin at Cessnock.....Ian, can you please remove Bulls and other non revelant posts as they cause nothing but confusion.

 

kiwi.

Sorry Kiwi, have removed my last post myself , but a lot of people are still hurting about the debarkle created by the RAA exec,s at Narromine last time , and it seems to have tainted the name Narromine, and if you read my posts ,I have said this event should be worth seeing unlike the Cessnock event .

 

 

the plethora of discounted tickets from Ra Aus seems to indicate slow sales???

I think your talking about the RAA bullshit one at Cessnock,ticket sales reflect that LOTS of people are waking up to RAA,s real agenda...……….

 

 

Not wishing to buy into squabbles about ranking Airventure, Ausfly, Holbrook etc, surely I’m not the only wrinkly grey guy to notice a sea of other wrinkly grey guys at these events. It is sad overall that young people either:1) don’t turn up to any of these events in large numbers, or

2) the young are no longer interested in flying and simply don’t partake in aviation.

 

If the latter is the case, that doesn’t bode well for aviation overall.

I don't think that the young of today are not interested in aviation dsam, I think it is more a case of the cost, as for me if the Auf had not been around when I first learnt to fly,i would still be flying models.The very reason ultralight flying first came into being ,AFFORDABLE not bloody accessable as the raa exec,s would try to have you believe. As the QUASI GA drive to take over the cheapest most enjoyable way for young people to get into aviation ,has unfortunetly been taken over by empire building quasi ga ' wants' ;,resulting in ever increasing costs to pay for the empire building of a couple of ex and not so ex GA people Quote'largest recreational body in Australia'end quote.RAA statement.

 

 

Hopefully not extinct. Although I guess it all depends on your interpretation. Holbrook seem to host what I think would come close? And hopefully Narromine will be a friendly old fashioned style fly in.

We can only hope so,might be alright if the RAA execs are banned...……….

 

 

Airventure Australia is the Cessnock thing in Sept.Ausfly is the Narromine thing in Oct.

Natfly is an obsolete name

And the pushing out of the RAA CHESTS[only 2 of them really starting with m]will be front and centre at Cessnock not worth attending to those that know the true meaning of 'FREEDOM TO FLY',Ausfly sounds like something worth going to.

 

 

Australian ultralight federation. An organisation that focused on ultralights but which became RAAus and is now GA focused.

Not only focused,BUT created by and FOR ULTRALIGHTS,not quasi ga aircraft...…………..

Yes, that’s been booted to the politics and religion site even though we religiously wove aviation themes into it all the time. I think the best story was Tomo towing the boat to the Antarctic flying his R22 backwards.

Or the thruster in the creek story.lol [for those that don't know a thruster was a dangerous 'ultralight' thingy that has been banished to the back of the shed by all the new shiny GA type raa planes ]…………..

 

 

I didn’t say I was offended bull, just amused that people have taken opposing positions based mostly on speculation about what another group of people may or may not have done.

No worries Turbo , (edited..mod) just a throwback to the never ending story days lol

 

 

This is an amazing thread! Two sides arguing, but have any facts been confirmed yet?

If free speech offends you dont scroll...……sorry about the spellingmistakes, as i,m just one of those country bumpkins that do,s not have the intelligence to see a con when we see one ,,,,,,lol

(edited..mod)

 

 

Think they had to surrender the trade mark as there were looming legal implications.So the line of listening to members would not be that relevant.

KP

Your dead right KP , more polly speak, and self preservation tactics then listening to members.

 

 

deleted...mod

 

 

The other very angry organisations sat on their hands for 40 years and did nothing. RAA has been proactive on many fronts but nothing satisfies a few who are hell bent on complaining and criticising at every opportunity. I think they are doing a better job than most of the other organisations and in my opinion have lifted the profile of recreational aviation well above that of SAAA, AOPA, GFA HGFA etc. RAA has become far more professional than the others and seems to have developed a fair rapport with CASA. No organisation is perfect though and mistakes will be made. How effectively these are dealt with is more important.If you don't like what is happening, leave, register with another organisation, start your own or forget about aviation. Alternatively throw your hat in the ring and stand for the board. If the anger amongst members is as high as what you lead us on this forum to believe, getting elected will be a shoe in.

deleted...Understand the angst but play the topic not the person...mod

 

 

The other very angry organisations sat on their hands for 40 years and did nothing. RAA has been proactive on many fronts but nothing satisfies a few who are hell bent on complaining and criticising at every opportunity. I think they are doing a better job than most of the other organisations and in my opinion have lifted the profile of recreational aviation well above that of SAAA, AOPA, GFA HGFA etc. RAA has become far more professional than the others and seems to have developed a fair rapport with CASA. No organisation is perfect though and mistakes will be made. How effectively these are dealt with is more important.If you don't like what is happening, leave, register with another organisation, start your own or forget about aviation. Alternatively throw your hat in the ring and stand for the board. If the anger amongst members is as high as what you lead us on this forum to believe, getting elected will be a shoe in.

But a MISTAKE WAS NOT MADE this was planned.