skippydiesel

Tangential thoughts: Prevention is usually better than cure. In this context CO poising is best prevented by making sure your exhaust system is in good order. I would think that few, if any, light aircraft firewalls are gas tight. Their main purpose is to: Slow the effect of an engine fire Reduce engine noise and heat (& cold drafts) - on the inhabitants of the cockpit. Your focus on taxi fume exclusion, is commendable but may not be achievable and inhibiting you achieving a workable (rather than ideal) solution. From what I have read (& experienced with the occasional paddock basher) exhaust fumes can enter the passenger compartment, via all sorts of other routs, not just the short rout through the firewall. You may be going to a lot of trouble to prevent exhaust fumes through your steering rod holes, only to find the gas is entering through the floor/tail cone/etc. 😈

I hadnt thought about the potential for wool felt to pass CO (Note: CO2 /Carbon Dioxide, is not the realy nasty one, its CO /Carbon Monoxide ). Seems to me that, other than a "rubber" concertina boot, with gas tight fitting to rod & firewall, would be your only option for a good seal. Even the home made silicon boot will likly be be gas permeable. 😈

General Observation; These days a lot of suppliers advertise at a low purchase cost, only to jack up/inflate delivery charges. If you have other Rotax 9 users in your vicinity/airfield, I suggest purchasing as a group, to minimise the cost of delivery/unit and if really lucky, negotiate a bulk purchase price.😈

You probably didnt understand - the Tempest magnet is in the oil filter . Its common for automotive transmission to have a magnet similar to the Rotax 9 instalation. Aircraft Spruce are asking high prices for the Rotax OM filter. That and my resent dealings with them, over a defective product, do not encourage me to do buisness with them.😈

Have you considered wool felt. It comes in diffrent grades, thickness, fire resistant, durable and cost effective. I have home made felt witches hats, as draft excluders, on my aileron /wing root holes - work a treat.😈

Yes! I have heard of people purchasing the "Tempest Oil Filter AA825706" with built in magnet but have no personal experience They are about the same price (in Astralia) as the Rotax 825-016. I very much doubt the magnet does a lot for your oil cleanliness. Year ago I acquired a very strong magnet, (from a dumped security door) put it on my Daihatsu Rocky 2.8 Turbo Diesel spin on filter. When I cut open the filters, there never was any ferrous particles adhering to that part of the inner casing - no change in 750,000 kms. I am fairly sure there was another reputable supplier of Rotax 912 oil filters - don't come up when I Google, so may be went out of business. I did find "TLAC" in the UK £9.34- never heard of them and CP9124C CHALLENGER STAINLESS STEEL MICRONIC OIL FILTER for $ 313 (US), between 6-11 Rotax filters. 😈

You just agreed with/made one of my points. That's all done after you have used it for up to 100 hrs - bit late in the day my friend. I guess you could do your own QA and cut open a random sample BEFORE using any of them - how many of your, near $80 oil filters,will you sacrifice ? 😈

Far from an expert - would you not reproduce the most aerodynamically efficient variant ? - probably the last Griffon powered ones 😈

Problem is when the appearance/acurate facimily, is that of the OM product - how would you know? This is where you reduce the odds, of purchasing an unknown quantity substitute, by patronising a, hopefully, reliable supplier. At the end of the day - with a product like a spin on oil filter canister - you are trusting that the internal operating parts, are as the engine manufacturer has specified. You wont have a clue, until you open the canister after service. Even then your subjective assessment may not be sufficient to determine good from bad. I would much preferer replacing an oil filter element (as in both my road vehicles and one of my tractors) to the convenience of a spin on conister. 😈

I second your concerns about apparent lack OH&S & the likly near slaver wages (poor buggers). As for who is "doing very nicely". I speculate; yes the factory owner but even more so the western importers/retailers - their profit margin is likely eye watering😈 I stand to be corrected; The only quality concerns I would have are: Foreign matter - No system to prevent "stuff" being include within the canister. Canister burst pressure - Probably adequate but how would you know for sure? Oil filtration - Is the media used, appropriate for the job? The quantity (surface area) seemed to be along the lines of a "metric handful" ie likly to vary significantly, even with the same hand measurement. The media was not sealed against the internal top/bottom discs, relying on spring pressure - completely inadequate. I did notice some black painted filters (Rotax?)😈

My apologies to you & ATEC Faeta - Not sure how the 1 got in there - bad proof reading. Stall is 27 knots😈

True!- The old Swiss Cheese analogy. We will never know, for sure, what holes opened & lined up, to result in the accident.😈

All welcome - Not so many days left to use the VFR lanes.😈

Thanks Garfly, I fly almost every week - usually for 1-2 hrs, sometimes considerably longer, so leaving the SE2 in the aircraft would be reasonable, if it remained charged. I recognise the Ping name, thats all. From your description, its sound like the Ping only helps the pilot "see" ADSB-OUT equipped aircraft ie It a way of complimenting your ADSB-OUT, by providing the IN of an ADSB IN/OUT. Does the Ping display the "targets" on an iPad/Ozrunways? SE2 does both IN & Out , in a nice small "package" at a favourable cost/effect. I have an ADSB (Mode S) - its capable of OUT but only if I install addition equipment/cost. For a recreational aircraft/pilot, who may or not, enter CTR down the track, the entry to controlled airspace (ADSB-S) has been met AND I have enhanced (hopefully) conspicuity (SE2) in the busy Sydney Basin airspace, plus OzRunways (& SE2 IN) blue balloons. Can I actually do much more, considering the type of flying I am doing? 😈

Hi BurnieM, "Rotax do not specify the specs for their oil filters". That and the apparent differences in known automotive (13-15 psi) & rumoured Rotax bypass pressure (20psi) and "special" flap valve, have prevented me finding an automotive alternative. "Rotax do not formally specify the specs for their XPS oil." BUT you can get the specifications for the approved (for carburettor 912's) AeroShell OIl Plus 4. While I use the AeroShell product, many long time owners of Rotax 9's still use, the then approved, motorcycle oils, without any apparent engine problems & less weight loss in the wallet. I briefly looked at alternative oils, concluded that the savings were at best marginal, largely due to the small quantities involved (3L/service refill). "Rotax do not formally specify the specs for their sparkplugs." Partly true. Rotax have recently changed their plug recommendation, to their in house Rotax branded multi electro plug (no specifications or alternative supplier) for RoTAX prices For the prior history of Rotax 912s (26+ years? ) they specified automotive NGK DCP8E plugs for the 912ULS and NGK DCPR7E for the 912UL (don't know what the 914 used). NGK plugs, of the recommended type, are available from any half descent automotive parts supplier for fraction of the cost of RoTax branded plugs. When my new engine, RoTax supplied multi electrodes, are due for replacement (400 hrs), I will seriously consider the merritt of returning to NGK's (200 hr replacement) Hoses Rotax only publish dimensional specifications for the fuel/oil/coolant hoses. Fortunatly, the supplier of hoses to Rotax, put their part numbers etc on the hose. This allows people, like me, to track down the specifications and apply them to automotive (& other) supplied hoses eg Gates ( see this Forum - Aircraft General Discussion - Started a spare parts list) 😈

Not sure you are correct on this statement: ATEC aircraft (who I used to represent) had the Zephyr (mixed construction materials) and now the Fatera (carbon fibre) both powered by Rotax 912 (80-100 hp) engines. Examples of both aircraft are flying in Australia and have the potential to be well under 300 kg empty weight. With purchaser/builder additional accessories (not required for legal flight) they usually end up at about 300 kg +/- As far as performance goes: Zephyr; (now discontinue) Stall 30 Knots - High Speed Cruise 120+ Knots Faeta (T tail); Stall 127 Knots - High Speed Cruise 135 Knots Note: ATEC have always been conservative with their performance claims - unlike most aircraft manufactures. 😈

Hi danny_galaga, Yes we agree, on the RoTAX parts rip off. "Unrelated to Rotax, but I've posted this article before on the perils of assuming something is exactly the same just because it looks the same, or the makers CLAIM it's the same:" We agree on this point also. Reposted from above: "If/When, I find an automotive oil filter, being supplied by a reputable maker, that meets/exceeds all Rotax specifications, at a significantly lower price, I will very happily purchase that oil filter. In the mean time, I will stick with the Rotax 825-016 BUT look for the best price (seems to be $36.50 from https://pmaviation.com.au/rotax/) which is a lot better than $78 from Aircraft Spruce (Flood yet to respond to my enquiry)😈" I have never suggested using inferior or unknown quality parts. My stated position has always been - must meet or exceed Rotax specifications. Where Rotax or potential alternative product, specifications can not be found, stick to Rotax OM. 😈

Early stages of planning a "gaggle" from The Oaks to/from Cessnock , this Sunday 24/05/26 (weather permitting). Don't usually need a reason to fly but this time its twofold ; The long standing VFR routs IN/Out of the Sydney Basin are about to be change - reason enough to get in a last trip. Future access will require a Flight Plan & Clearance. Second reason is to commemorate the death of one The Oaks pilots. It must be about 18 month since three of us were going to do the short flight, The Oaks - Cessnock, via the above VFR Lanes. Long story short, there was a mid air collision with a training Cessna 182 - three pilots died - one was our friend. We never made it to Cessnock that morning - this time we will. 😈

Friend BrendAn, If/When, I find an automotive oil filter, being supplied by a reputable maker, that meets/exceeds all Rotax specifications, at a significantly lower price, I will very happily purchase that oil filter. In the mean time, I will stick with the Rotax 825-016 BUT look for the best price (seems to be $36.50 from https://pmaviation.com.au/rotax/) which is a lot better than $78 from Aircraft Spruce (Flood yet to respond to my enquiry)😈

Are you willfully missing the point? (All comments below are for non certified aircraft/engines) Aside from a claimed difference in bypass pressure rating (spring & diaphragm) the oil filetrs are essentially the same. May have been produced in the same factory AND have the same production costs. An aircraft engine failure, has the potentially for much more serious outcome, than a similar ground vehicle engine failure. This factor alone, warrants greater care & standards in construction, maintenance & servicing. The above suggests higher standards, that cost more - FAIR ENOUGH! (too a point) Not up X 8 BUT I have never seen an automotive oil filter (purchased from a respected supplier like RYCO) fail, when being used as per engine & filter manufactures recommendations. Rotax 9 engines use automotive technology throughout (ie nothing unusual /special) Have, in the past, specified automotive products be used in their engine servicing. I am unaware of any engine failures as a result. Rotax has decided to go down the road of "branding" its service products and at the same time increased the cost of these by many times the manufacturing cost. Vehicle manufactures also brand service items BUT are in competition for sales with a whole host of aftermarket suppliers. Branded (OM) vehicle service parts are often competitive with after market quality products. In common with other small market/slow turn over industries, Rotax prices are of necessity higher - fair enough but not x 8 Rotax has taken steps to not be in competition with after market suppliers, by promoting their aircraft parts/materials quality propaganda narrative - Owners like you have been sucked in. That your prerogative. RoTAX is real - its designed to increase profit. Nothing to do with engine service life/reliability - just profit. There is a great deal of myth about the superiority of aircraft servicing/materials. IF you own & maintain a homebuilt aircraft, you have the flexibility to maintain the aircraft in the most cost effective way (not suggesting scrimping on standards/safety). I get satisfaction from being cost conscious, you apparently do not. I take the time to compare standards & find the most cost competitive product. Apparently you are happy to pay Rotax & not bother with such time wasting efforts - your prorgative. Clearly we see the World through diffrent lenses and likly from diffrent cash reserves. 😈

What about AeroShell Sport Plus 4 The prices below are for 12 x 1 L cartons NOTE: Delivery charges will likly change the cost significantly (assuming you can not pick up from supplier) Australia Supplier $ Cost/L Aircraft Spruce 26.67 The Aviator 21.67 Sky Fuel 19.84 Viva 19.92 😈

BurnieM "Except I cannot find anybody in Australia selling them for $36." https://pmaviation.com.au/rotax/ Your welcome. 😈

Maaate! If a very similar product can be purchased for $10, paying $36 - $80, no matter how wealthy you appear to be, puts into question your mental soundness (no offence intend).😈

Really? A quick search has Rotax oil filters from $36.50 - $78.50 AU RYCO (a reputable Australian brand) has similar vehicle filters for $10 - $18 AU NOTE: I am not advocating fitting a non Rotax oil filter, just commenting on the price disparity (Rotax V similar automotive) which seems to be increasing. The reality is, if its supplied by an aviation specific retailer and/or has aviation in the parts description, it will be at least double the price of a similar automotive product. As others have pointed out an engine can run perfectly well without an oil filter or with a gauze screen washable one. The filter only becomes important when the engine is shedding wear particles, something that may ultimately require a lot more than a filter to put right. I can not afford to risk using a non Rotax oil filter but this over the barrel pricing does not make me happy. 😈

You are correct. However if I charge in the aircraft, I will probably not bring the SE2 home. Its about forming good/bad habits. 😈