skippydiesel

This Sunday 27th??? 😈

Turbs; "Yes I have; and what I said was these were unrelated to the organisation you needed to talk to for a qery on ERSA contents." I am not making a query on ERSA content - You are off on the wrong track. I am attempting to have all ERSA listed australian airfield owners publish their Landing Fee requirements in ERSA. Airservices does not have the authority to encouraged or compell airfield owners to supply this information. On several points I believe & have conveyed to you that you do not understand the relationships of the Minister -CASA - Airservices - airfield owners - yet you persist in promoting this idea that Airservices is somehow all powerful in this matter - think again. "...it's just for an isssue which you could solve by one quick email or phone call, ..." Do tell - make it simple so that I can understand. 😈

Thanks Blue - AVDATA is some sort of debt collecting agent, that are nothing to do with ERSA Australia has provided pilots with an amazing & usually comprehensive single/centralised resource, in ERSA. ERSA is consulted by all Australian pilots at some time in their training and if continuing to X Country/trips away, on a regular basis. ERSA should not be subverted/down graded by incompetence, unprofessional and I believe illegal behaviour ,on the part of airfield owners, that is not publishing their Landing Fees in ERSA, rather hoping some other body/system will "take up the slack" and supply the information. As an aside - I qustion the legitimacy of any non Government third party, supplying information, that by rights should be in ERSA That you have found the information, I want posted in ERSA, through another system/location does not change my position one jot. You should not have needed to do what you have done to obtain the Landing Fee information, which should be in ERSA. While I started this campaign, to simply centralis & standardise the supply of Landing Fee information, it has evolved (in my mind) to also include the continued integrity of ERSA. Once one small piece of information is dismissed, as bordering on irrelevant, what of other more critical information - what third party will spring up to deliver this and can it be trusted??? 😈

Turbs, Your have not taken on board/read who I have contacted. You have supplied three front page Airservices links - to what end? The second contact I listed was Airservices. You clearly do not understand the relationship between Minister, CASA & Airservices. You do not understand that the Ministers Office has stated - she will not act on my loan voice, only on representation from industry organisations (RAA, AOPA, AAA, etc contacted by me) or a petition (with a lot of signatures). Why don't you do something constructive for a change - START A PETITION or similar. 😈

Turbs; Did you not read the list of organisations/people I have writen to, seeking assistance/support/action on this matter? "I have been corresponding with CASA, Airservices, RAA, Australian Airports, AOPA, Antique Aeroplane, Minister King and sundry individual airfield owners. " If you have some other organisations/people I can contact, who may further my Quixotic endevours - do tell. The"facefull in return" is down to you my friend - introduce a load of irrelevant observation/comment (short version BS) you will be rightfully called out for it. If I am wrong in this, please demonstrate where & how and I will apologise unreservedly. 😈

Hi Garfly, "Well, as a citizen, I'd mark down any Minister of the Crown who devoted his or her department's time to an issue so niche, in the overall scheme of things." If you expect so little from those, that we elevate into positions of authority, that is what you will get. I am sorry for you and all others who find it so difficult to support my, or anyones, efforts to right what is a wrong (you can not claim otherwise). Small in the scheme of things, to be sure, but a wrong nevertheless. A wrong, that when righted, will make all traveling pilots planning/lives just that little bit better. Is this a bad thing? Every small wrong that you (complacent societies) accepts/ignores, just sinks you deeper into even lower expectations & service delivery (I did use a more colourful expression here but thought better of it). Neither I, you, or the hunderdes of pilots out there, should have to search for a charge, no matter how small/large, that will be levied on them by a service provider. What I am asking for is simply good professional management - effectively communicate your charges to your clients (pilots). It's not hard - Once per annum, when the Council reviews their fee structure, update (if required) the ERSA entry. I don't know how often airfield owners must confirm the accuracy of their airfield entry but I do know they are required to note any changes (of significants ?) Updating a fee/charge (if required) is a minute additional expenditure of effort/cost. The fact that so few airport owners can be bothered to do this simple, small, right thing, post their fee schedule in ERSA, is a demonstration of their contempt for a us the people - in this instance pilots. Why would you or any other pilot think this is reasonable? 😈

Hi Garfly, I am sorry for you and all others who find it so difficult to support my, or anyones, efforts to right what is a wrong. Small in the scheme of things, to be sure, but a wrong thevertheless. Neither I, you, or the hunderdes of pilots out there, should have to search for a charge, no matter how small/large, that will be levied on them by a service provider. What I am asking for is simply good professional management - effectively communicate your charges to your clients (pilots). It's not hard - Once per annum, when the Council reviews their fee structure, update (if required) the ERSA entry. The fact that so few airport owners can be bothered to do this simple small right thing, post their fee schedule in ERSA, is a demonstration of their contempt for pilots. Why would you or any other pilot think this is reasonable? 😈

So not related to the thread topic. 😈 Ye gads you do write a lot of BS ; ERSA is about airfield information - not exclusively safety related. "....putting your case to the person who makes those decisions" Who may that be? Check out all the organisations I have been corresponding with. The main argument is two fold; Basic courtesy or professional delivery of service if you prefer. Adherence to Consumer Law - if not directly applicable to airfields at least comply with intention/public expectations ie know what you will be charged should you utilise the service. A safety case can easily be made - Pilot elects to bypass airfield, due to unspecified Landing Fees/Conditions - runs out of fuel. Dies in subsequent forced landing. Long shot, to be sure, but crazier things have happened. Instead of comming up with negative /useless "advice" how about something that furthers the cause. 😈

She is in the seat - no alternative (or do you have a suggestion?). If Minister King unwilling/uncaring enough to right this wrong, I will contact the Shadow Minister, Senator McKenzie, to see if some "stirring" of the political pot delivers a little action.😈

Yes or just individuals sending letters in to Minister King, supporting the the need to have landing Fees posted in ERSA. It seems I am making the running on this but this doesn't prevent others from supporting/joining/making suggestions on how to further the objective. 😈

Did I miss this event being posted / promoted on this Forum before it took place? As FlyBoy1960 commented "great to see a little bit of activity and groups getting together. It has really been too quiet, for too long, ....." If we don't know about it, how can we participate? 😈

Thank you for your support. It would seem you are uninterred, possibly not benefit, from having a single, easy, point of reference (ERSA) for Landing Fees. 😈

Turbs me old mate. I have been corresponding with CASA, Airservices, RAA, Australian Airports, AOPA, Antique Aeroplane, Minister King and sundry individual airfield owners. I apologise if I did not make this clear. I also apologise for not understanding how the bulk of your comment has anything to do with getting Landing Fees published in ERSA. 😈

UPDATE! After a three month wait, I decided to phone Minster Kings office to see, what if any progress, had occurred. As you may have expected (hopped for better from our servants) - nothing! It seems that my letter was forwarded to NAIPS (despite me saying I had been referred to the Minister by NAIPS) for their action. Further conversation occurred; (My interpretation follows;) Too small/insignificant ie not a enough votes in it, to pay attention. Mine is the only "voice". How can righting a wrong, be any less important if its one voice or thousands? Would need some industry representation/support to take notice. Do I recall RAA saying they were actively pursuing this? Verbal complete agreement from AOPA ? I have requested a formal meeting with Minster King to put my (our?) position on En Route Supplement Australia (ERSA*) Airfield Landing Fees Seems to me that I will need all, who agree that Landing Fees should be posted in ERSA, to write to the Ministers office - what say you? 😈

I just wish your innuendo had a grain of truth - what a memory that would be 😈

Mate - Don't beat yourself up over your loss of composure - You have been significantly provoked, over an extended period. You tried to reason, without success. Yes you failed yourself, however we all do that from time to time - not good but understandable. (Been there myself, on more than one occasion)😈

Long time ago, to be sure: I was a teeenager en route to the UK. Flew, PanAM, Business Class, Honolulu to San Diego, accompanied by two girl friends. No boarding parses/tickets for any of us. We were off a transiting but delayed QANTAS flight, that had a mechanical problem. Got a right telling off at the San Diego end (always wondered what happened to the airline staff that let us board) - We thought the whole escapade was a great joke. To this day, not sure how we manged to talk ourselves onto another aircraft. 😈

409tonner, Nice visual representation of how I feel - much appreciated. 😈

Cautionary Tail; My Sonex has been undercoated with PPG Industries DeSoto 515X349 and then top/final coat of PPG Industries Protec White (recommended by PPG Paint Power House)- Top coat applied by professional painter, in down draft, temperature controlled, spay booth. About 12 months or so ago, I started to notice that neat little circles of paint was disappearing of some rivet heads (these are solid not pulled rivets). Both top & undercoat lifted off. Then top coat started to flake from edges of "sheet" aluminium (skin). In this case the undercoat remains attached. Before you suggest holding the painter to account, you should know, as a friend of my Son, he did a "love job" so no recourse in that direction. Further - As a partially completed project, most of the undercoat came with the aircraft. I have reason to believe that as sections were completed, they were undercoated. The build took in excess of 10 years, so undercoat age may have varied from say 6 moths -10 years. No idea what effect age may have on subsequent top coat adhesion but from my own expertise, I am aware that some paints require further preperation when left to "mature". Over a month or so , up to this day, I have been trying to get PPG Industries to inspect & advise. Not only are they very slow to respond to correspondence (eMail) I have been passed from one department to another & back again, without receiving an inspection. This day the verbal/phone advice, PPG would not be inspecting the problem. I presume liability concerns may be at the crux of the refusal, even though I said I would put in writing that I would not claim/sue and that all I wanted was informed advice as to what may have happened and what may be the way forward. Without an inspection, the phone representative speculated the following possible causes/remedy to the paint failure; PPG do not have any data sheets suggesting Protec White is a suitable topcoat over DeSoto 515X349. I should have been directed to PPG Aerospace for their recommendation (Inference being - a different paint may have been recommended) Its possible that the undercoat was applied to the, correctly prepared, aircraft skins, before assembly BUT the subsequent fixing rivets were not prepared, leading to the undercoat to not bond effectively with the aluminium rivet head = delamination of undercoat & with it the top coat. Remedy - complete removal of Protec White. Cleaning & light abrasion of all rivet heads. Seek advice from PPG Aerospace as to retention/removal/replacement of DeSoto 515X349 and subsequent top coat. The Sonex is flying well. Its a shame about the appearance but fixing it is a huge /expensive job that will not deliver a better flying platforme. I think I will leave as is, for now. It's a lot easier & less costly to do it right the first time. I hope that any prospective aluminium aircraft painter, takes a lesson from my experince and questions (second & third opinions) all advice about the covering material and application techniques required. I am sure I am not the first to make such a mistake & will not be the last. 😈

Hi Likeh, Sorry not familiar with Savannahs, however I am anxious about the potential wear in the hinge pin design of my Sonex flight surfaces. Still good, but only have a bit over 250hrs Hobbs. The Sonex maintenance advice is to use a PTFE rich dry spray lubricant, on the hing mechanism. Dose Savannah recomend similar? If no, this may be a future wear mitigation strategy you could adopt. There is a wide range of such lub's on the market . 😈

No mention of dimensions - smaller - same - larger than the equivalent CCA battery ?? Item 12. - ".....aid in weight and balance" Odd statement. The suggestion is, by dint of it's particular characteristic (Sodium), this battery participates in W&B of an Aircraft. (Just having fun no offence intended) 😈

Are you deliberatly missing my point? No matter where you are able to find third party information, ERSA is the central document and should be maintained as such. Having Landing Fees in ERSA will not change where you find the information but will assist others and help to maintain ERSA as a vital aid in safe air navigation. It astonishes me that so few Australian pilots seem to give a "rats anus" about not only maintaining ERSA but also their rights as a citizen to have fees published, such that they are abviouse/up-front, just like vehicle parking fees are required to be. As a pilot do you have less rights than a car driver? 😈

Like you I no longer carry a paper ERSA. Unlike you I do access it through NAIPS for all unknown (to me) or infrequently visited airfields, that I may wish to access. On a trip, I print out all the airfields I may land at & others that may be suitable "Alternates". I read, I write notes on each page, to help with complying with any special conditions, hazards, etc. These pages are carried in the aircraft along with a Flight Plan and any additional aids eg satelit photo The way you access/use ERSA is not the point. ERSA is the Australian pilots "bible" for all flying publicly accessible airfield in Australia. From memory (?) ERSA is updated x 4/year. I am told Councils (the main owners of regional airfields) review their fess once/year. This would suggest that there should be no problem in listing their fees in ERSA. I believe all airfields that are open to the flying public must be listed in ERSA. The airfield owner has the responsibility to keep their entry current - entry's are approved by CASA however printing/issuing is the responsibility of NAIPS. As for CASA approved EFB's. Any third party system that may list airfield conditions, terms of access etc can never be as reliable or accountable as the originator, NAIPS. 😈

All good information. I apologise if already stated; What are the relative dimensions & cost of the Sodium-Ion compared with an equivalent CCA battery: Earth X ETX 900 ? AGM motorcycle battery ? 😈