RA-AUS renewal now with lots of Membership Terms and Conditions

[jackc]

7 minutes ago, Blueadventures said:

All good, just asking what SAAA members need to put in place to fly.

Become a member of the SAAA, take your aircraft off the RAA register and go to CASA  and apply for a VH experimental call sign,  dust off your RPL fly away happy🤩

Contact SAAA for any other formalities, you may need to complete? 
If you wish to maintain your own aircraft, whether you built it or not, you do the  SAAA MPC Course, qualify and take your certificate to CASA, who will give you a certificate to maintain your own aircraft, under their requirements. 

[T510]

15 minutes ago, jackc said:

Become a member of the SAAA, take your aircraft off the RAA register and go to CASA  and apply for a VH experimental call sign,  dust off your RPL fly away happy🤩

Contact SAAA for any other formalities, you may need to complete? 
If you wish to maintain your own aircraft, whether you built it or not, you do the  SAAA MPC Course, qualify and take your certificate to CASA, who will give you a certificate to maintain your own aircraft, under their requirements. 

Any updates on the release date for the  CASA Instrument to allow owner maintenance?

 

I have already registered my interest with SAAA to take part in the MPC course when they start taking reservations

[onetrack]

Quote

In 30 years of my own business I never held a Public Liability Policy.

That's all very well, but you obviously assessed your risk level in line with your level of public interaction, and made the commercial decision to avoid taking out a policy and to wear the risk, as it was low.

But a lot of people do not have that luxury, as they interact with the public on a large scale, and their risk level increases accordingly. To run a public event without a PL policy is financial suicide.

 

When I was a leading partner in a substantial earthmoving and mining contracting business for 30 years, it was imperative that the business have a PL policy, due to the constant interaction with clients, their employees and the general public (we did road construction too, and interacted with traffic).

However, in 30 years, we only had one PL claim, and it was for a relatively small damages claim, one of our machines accidentally started a fire in a farming area via sparks being generated by dozer tracks running over flat granite rocks. The fire was rapidly contained with minimal damage.

 

If you crash and start a fire, you could be up for a sizeable bill - and if you damage infrastructure, you will receive a major bill for repairs to the infrastructure you damaged.

Not a lot of car drivers understand, that if you run off the road in moment of carelessness, and hit a power or light pole, you get the bill for the replacement of said pole - and that is a very large bill in todays world, it's not unusual for a single pole replacement cost to run between $10,000 to $40,000.

[jackc]

16 minutes ago, T510 said:

Any updates on the release date for the  CASA Instrument to allow owner maintenance?

 

I have already registered my interest with SAAA to take part in the MPC course when they start taking reservations

My latest update as of yesterday is, end of this month, latest middle of May, some legal points in the Legislative  Instrument need to be attended to. 
The Course Syllabus itself has been fully signed off by CASA, and ready to go.

Bookings will be taken, as soon as the CASA Legislative Instrument is finalised .

Edited April 21 by jackc
Added text

[sfGnome]

Just to clarify, SAAA and RAAus are totally different types of entities. SAAA exists to assist people to build and fly aircraft. They have absolutely zero involvement (apart from lobbying for changes) in the administration of aircraft. For the types we fly, it’s either CASA or RAAus for the administration. If you don’t like one, pick the other. If you don’t like either, then find another hobby. SAAA will help you whether you’re building for VH or RAAus registration (in my chapter, we have two builders aiming towards RAAus rego). 

[BurnieM]

1 hour ago, jackc said:

Become a member of the SAAA, take your aircraft off the RAA register and go to CASA  and apply for a VH experimental call sign, dust off your RPL fly away happy🤩

Contact SAAA for any other formalities, you may need to complete? 
If you wish to maintain your own aircraft, whether you built it or not, you do the  SAAA MPC Course, qualify and take your certificate to CASA, who will give you a certificate to maintain your own aircraft, under their requirements. 

Class 5 medical makes a RPL easy.

 

After you have your certificate from CASA are you required to maintain your SAAA membership ?

 

[440032]

BEWARE OF UNINTENDED MISINFORMATION ON HERE FOLKS.

"If you wish to maintain your own aircraft, whether you built it or not, you do the SAAA MPC Course, qualify and take your certificate to CASA, who will give you a certificate to maintain your own aircraft, under their requirements."

Sorry Burnie - you obviously don't know how it all works. I'm sure your info was well intentioned though, but it's not accurate.

 

CASA Instrument 18/22 (in part) allows builder of a VH registered amateur built experimental aircraft the entitlement to maintain the aircraft they built, if they do a course of training on regulatory matters, such as the SAAA MPC.

SAAA MPC certificate is not in itself an approval to do anything, it's just a certificate of course completion.

CASA gives nobody personally a certificate to do anything. It's not true.

 

Also, amateur-built experimental aircraft must obtain an Experimental Certificate, not just CASA registration, pilot must have a CASA pilot licence and a CASA medical - such as Class 5. Switching an RAAus plane to VH-EXP is not a five minute job and there are a lot of other factors at play, lots of ducks to be put into lines before pulling the trigger on any of it.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 21 by 440032

[Blueadventures]

1 hour ago, BurnieM said:

Class 5 medical makes a RPL easy.

 

After you have your certificate from CASA are you required to maintain your SAAA membership ?

 

From what a group meeting I was at were told, no.

[BurnieM]

46 minutes ago, 440032 said:

BEWARE OF UNINTENDED MISINFORMATION ON HERE FOLKS.

"If you wish to maintain your own aircraft, whether you built it or not, you do the SAAA MPC Course, qualify and take your certificate to CASA, who will give you a certificate to maintain your own aircraft, under their requirements."

Sorry Burnie - you obviously don't know how it all works. I'm sure your info was well intentioned though, but it's not accurate.

 

CASA Instrument 18/22 (in part) allows builder of a VH registered amateur built experimental aircraft the entitlement to maintain the aircraft they built, if they do a course of training on regulatory matters, such as the SAAA MPC.

SAAA MPC certificate is not in itself an approval to do anything, it's just a certificate of course completion.

CASA gives nobody personally a certificate to do anything. It's not true.

 

Also, amateur-built experimental aircraft must obtain an Experimental Certificate, not just CASA registration, pilot must have a CASA pilot licence and a CASA medical - such as Class 5. Switching an RAAus plane to VH-EXP is not a five minute job and there are a lot of other factors at play, lots of ducks to be put into lines before pulling the trigger on any of it.

 

I am not uninformed.

I understand this new course (similar to the existing course but with new CASA paperwork) will allow an owner who was not the original builder to maintain a VH registered amateur built experimental aircraft.

 

I am expecting there to be restrictions that we are not currently aware of.

 

As I will not be converting from RAAus to CASA registration I will leave the requirements for this to others to investigate.

 

Edited April 21 by BurnieM

[T510]

3 hours ago, 440032 said:

BEWARE OF UNINTENDED MISINFORMATION ON HERE FOLKS.

"If you wish to maintain your own aircraft, whether you built it or not, you do the SAAA MPC Course, qualify and take your certificate to CASA, who will give you a certificate to maintain your own aircraft, under their requirements."

Sorry Burnie - you obviously don't know how it all works. I'm sure your info was well intentioned though, but it's not accurate.

 

CASA Instrument 18/22 (in part) allows builder of a VH registered amateur built experimental aircraft the entitlement to maintain the aircraft they built, if they do a course of training on regulatory matters, such as the SAAA MPC.

SAAA MPC certificate is not in itself an approval to do anything, it's just a certificate of course completion.

CASA gives nobody personally a certificate to do anything. It's not true.

 

Also, amateur-built experimental aircraft must obtain an Experimental Certificate, not just CASA registration, pilot must have a CASA pilot licence and a CASA medical - such as Class 5. Switching an RAAus plane to VH-EXP is not a five minute job and there are a lot of other factors at play, lots of ducks to be put into lines before pulling the trigger on any of it.

 

 

 

 

 

Both of you are right, at the moment what you have posted is true, what Burnie posted is currently in the works and due  to be released very soon.

 

CASA are working on a Part 43 Instrument that will allow owners to work on aircraft they have not built.

"Part 43 of the Civil Aviation Safety Regulations (CASR) which will set out the rules for maintaining aircraft. These rules are proposed to apply to aircraft engaged in private, flight training, aerial application, and aerial work operations"

https://www.casa.gov.au/rules/regulatory-framework/casr/part-43-casr-maintenance-aircraft-private-and-aerial-work-operations

 

Here is the spiel from the SAAA website - https://saaa.asn.au/maintenace-for-aircraft-owners/

"Maintenance Update for Non Builders – 8th April 2026

We’ve had a number of enquiries about the upcoming maintenance pathway for owners who didn’t build their EAB aircraft. CASA is still finalising the instrument that will outline the requirements, and we’ll share more information as soon as it’s released.

It’s important to note that this is not a SAAA issued instrument. It is a CASA qualification, and once in place, it will give eligible non builders the privilege and authority to maintain their own EAB aircraft in accordance with the instrument.

 

[rodgerc]

If you’ve already built a substantially similar aircraft and purchase another experimental built by someone else, there is an avenue to be the maintainer of the aircraft….

[Ballpoint 246niner]

On 3/4/2026 at 5:32 PM, facthunter said:

I don't think any of us Know the full story and in what context that Witholding  occurred.  Many make a Judgement  I got the Impression they were out to GET someone to Blame . Nev

There ARE those who know and they are waiting for the DPP and CASA to act as was recommended and  protections can be afforded. No further comment.

[pluessy]

On 20/04/2026 at 3:45 PM, jackc said:

Well, today was Solicitor  day. He asked where this document came from and was it written by the legal team of RAAus?  I told him I have no knowledge of its source.
He said, in  his words ‘it’s a mess’.

He did ask what the general consensus amongst other members was and I said I have no idea really, he simply said well you would be well advised to all team up together and not be part of it.

He told me if I become involved in any dispute that these terms and conditions are part of, I  will pay a lawyer a lot of money to undo a possible mess through no fault of my own.

His next words were,  do I have an alternative path and I said yes,  and he said well you better take it, based on what I see here.

Furthermore, I was told only hearsay, that some members managed to renew without signing? That RAAus later asked them to sign AFTER renewal payment was accepted?

If that is the case, a legal precedent has been set? 
I personally think it’s a FUBAR in the making, based on phone conversations I have had, about it all.

i will talk to RAAus abut it, see what they say?  I guess I will be told, it’s ‘their’ way……or the Highway? 

So Stakeholders, make you own decisions? 

I have asked RA-Aus for an ENGLISH translation of the dribble they forced me to sing. Got a wishy-washy reply from Cody with a link to another dribble-document from RA-Aus (the FAQ). I again requested a plain English translation/explanation and I'm still waiting!

[jackc]

1 minute ago, pluessy said:

I have asked RA-Aus for an ENGLISH translation of the dribble they forced me to sing. Got a wishy-washy reply from Cody with a link to another dribble-document from RA-Aus (the FAQ). I again requested a plain English translation/explanation and I'm still waiting!

I have been given a contact in CASA to run it all past, I’ll see what comments I get from that person? But apparently some people have been able to renew without signing the terms and conditions, but I think there’s been a WEB Site  error has allowed that to happen.? 

[jackc]

9 hours ago, pluessy said:

I have asked RA-Aus for an ENGLISH translation of the dribble they forced me to sing. Got a wishy-washy reply from Cody with a link to another dribble-document from RA-Aus (the FAQ). I again requested a plain English translation/explanation and I'm still waiting!

I have spent time today  perusing the document and I really am not much  the wiser, in fact I gave up on it. At the very top it says by signing, I have read and understood it all?

Well, in my case I don’t. Besides, I don’t agree with th paragraph in regards to to images and RAAus entitlement to use them, as they see fit.  

[jackc]

Update time:

After a 30 minute or so phone call with a gentleman from sports and rec in CASA I am no better off. Basically RAAus membership is nothing whatsoever to do with them and the man is  correct..

I asked him if he had seen the terms and conditions document and he said no, and he was not aware of it?

He said that CASA were not interested in any aspect of RAAUS membership at all. 
He simply suggested and I reminded him we are stakeholders, band together and approach our AAUS if they are unhappy with the terms and conditions and get them changed to a more understandable and readable format before signing.

But it is not up to CASA to become involved in the process in any way whatsoever? 
I did mention to the gentleman that quite a few members are not happy with the situation and may possibly leave the organisation and continue to fly illegally possibly? He didn’t seem to care too much about that except to say we will catch them and prosecute them and I laughingly said good luck catching everybody. Australia is a big place.? 
The only way I feel that Casa would listen to anything is if quite a larger number of people expressed their dissatisfaction with the way RAAUS was being run, and protest the situation.

But I know that won’t happen most people will simply sign something they can’t understand and continue on their way.

The gentleman suggested I approach RAAUS and have the terms and conditions amended to a more easily readable and understandable format, so for  me to do that I would need to pay a solicitor to rewrite the document and present it, which I’m not prepared to do.

The CASA man did say it would appear. The document is rather complex if it needs individual signatures for the terms and conditions of each state to be signed by everybody.,

That logic escaped him. 
So basically, that’s where it’s out right now, I think fighting this battle is a totally lost cause and I think the only choice is to take all the aircraft off the VH register cancel one’s membership and move to VH experimental and deal with that as needed, otherwise it’s a case of suck it all up with RAAUS and continue, having signed terms and conditions which are possibly even unenforceable anyway? 
But only a court of law could determine that if there is some kind of legal action taken under those terms and conditions?

 

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

2 hours ago, jackc said:

Update time:

After a 30 minute or so phone call with a gentleman from sports and rec in CASA I am no better off. Basically RAAus membership is nothing whatsoever to do with them and the man is  correct..

I asked him if he had seen the terms and conditions document and he said no, and he was not aware of it?

He said that CASA were not interested in any aspect of RAAUS membership at all. 
He simply suggested and I reminded him we are stakeholders, band together and approach our AAUS if they are unhappy with the terms and conditions and get them changed to a more understandable and readable format before signing.

But it is not up to CASA to become involved in the process in any way whatsoever? 
I did mention to the gentleman that quite a few members are not happy with the situation and may possibly leave the organisation and continue to fly illegally possibly? He didn’t seem to care too much about that except to say we will catch them and prosecute them and I laughingly said good luck catching everybody. Australia is a big place.? 
The only way I feel that Casa would listen to anything is if quite a larger number of people expressed their dissatisfaction with the way RAAUS was being run, and protest the situation.

But I know that won’t happen most people will simply sign something they can’t understand and continue on their way.

The gentleman suggested I approach RAAUS and have the terms and conditions amended to a more easily readable and understandable format, so for  me to do that I would need to pay a solicitor to rewrite the document and present it, which I’m not prepared to do.

The CASA man did say it would appear. The document is rather complex if it needs individual signatures for the terms and conditions of each state to be signed by everybody.,

That logic escaped him. 
So basically, that’s where it’s out right now, I think fighting this battle is a totally lost cause and I think the only choice is to take all the aircraft off the VH register cancel one’s membership and move to VH experimental and deal with that as needed, otherwise it’s a case of suck it all up with RAAUS and continue, having signed terms and conditions which are possibly even unenforceable anyway? 
But only a court of law could determine that if there is some kind of legal action taken under those terms and conditions?

 

 

 

Get a 100 plus members and raise a special general meeting and motion for lack of support for the current administration. The members have a right to have a say in their own organisation. Certain people in power  are counting on the general  apathy of-the membership. Walking away may save you, but think of all your fellow members and the organisations stalwarts and  those people who actually cared and helped to build the AUF and RAAus and not those who through entitlement and chroneism who trade off its name and only want to protect themselves.

[facthunter]

Anything from CASA not in writing is not worth the Paper it's written on. Was the Person you spoke to authorised to make a statement on Behalf of the CASA, or did you just get His opinion?. 

  Also what good is a meeting that Just expresses no confidence in the Management. You must Propose some course of action to be carried out, or you just get a warm and fuzzy feeling inside. ALSO CASA created this and even specified the AUW's 762,  Kgs. Unless they wish it gone, (which would be quite Hard to explain) they might show a bit of Interest. The WORLD watches.  Nev

[jackc]

57 minutes ago, Ballpoint 246niner said:

Get a 100 plus members and raise a special general meeting and motion for lack of support for the current administration. The members have a right to have a say in their own organisation. Certain people in power  are counting on the general  apathy of-the membership. Walking away may save you, but think of all your fellow members and the organisations stalwarts and  those people who actually cared and helped to build the AUF and RAAus and not those who through entitlement and chroneism who trade off its name and only want to protect themselves.

Well, I cannot use this forum to drum up support, Admin may not be happy and from the feedback on the subject in this thread, I would be lucky to get 10 people.

no one has DM’d me, what’s that tell you? 
I have been down these roads before,  Australia is spelt “apathy” but I have my own solution to the problem,  all my life I have had to look after myself, with very little help from others.

The longer I have lived, the worse it’s gotten 🤢

Someone convince me, this argument is worth fighting for? 

[pmccarthy]

In my business experience, you can amend a document by hand and initial the change, then send it in with your payment. If they accept the money they have accepted your amendments.

[rodgerc]

13 hours ago, facthunter said:

 

Anything from CASA not in writing is not worth the Paper it's written on.

 

In an attempt in inject some light relief into this thread, and at risk of emulating Bernard Woolley (ref: Yes Prime Minister), it seems we may have a case of logical fallacy, since the conclusion is contained within the premise.

Ie Since CASA has not evidenced anything in writing, neither in hard copy nor digital format, there cannot therefore be any “paper” to which value may be ascribed. 

[BrendAn]

39 minutes ago, pmccarthy said:

In my business experience, you can amend a document by hand and initial the change, then send it in with your payment. If they accept the money they have accepted your amendments.

This could be a good way for everyone to let them know what they think.  A few hundred renewals with the rubbish crossed out and initialed will make them take notice surely.

[facthunter]

Roger, it also inferred "you need it in writing"  or it's worth nothing  and that was my point. .Nev

[jackc]

1 hour ago, BrendAn said:

This could be a good way for everyone to let them know what they think.  A few hundred renewals with the rubbish crossed out and initialed will make them take notice surely.

The CASA man did say, he could not understand why each state amendment needed to be signed. But in saying that, he had not reads the document and was not really interested anyway as it’s not a CASA problem, which is true. 
he simply said it’s an RAAus problem and WE as members need to fix it? I reminded him we are only Stakeholders in a Company limited by guarantee and as such can have liability attached to us, more so than if RAAus was an Incorporated Organisation, that ship sailed years ago.

I reminded the CASA man that IF many left RAAus, they could possibly simply fly unregistered, he said they will catch them and prosecute them. I did not have the heart to tell him, that CASA could not catch a cold 🤩

 They  staked out a friend of mine over 40 years ago for running an illegal charter service in a DC-3 and they could not catch him 🤩 you can hear them for freaking miles👍

[facthunter]

Recommending Breaking the Law is not clever. Get smart, not just angry.. CASA can't JUST ignore it, because they Pushed it. . Nev