Solo student pilot in Cessna crash at Parafield walks away. 05/01/26

[red750]

I think he was trying to recover from a bounce.

[Thruster88]

The ATSB has produced some very good educational short videos recently on simple accidents like this one, often within a month, much more value that a report in three years time.

[Blueadventures]

15 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

The ATSB has produced some very good educational short videos recently on simple accidents like this one, often within a month, much more value that a report in three years time.

Angus M is an old boss of mine, He in early days was a Navy Clearance diver; he is big on training, preparation, apply learnings, getting it right and a very good communicator.  ATSB is in good hands.

 

Edited Tuesday at 05:45 AM by Blueadventures

[facthunter]

Going around off a bounce can be very exacting. Probably the first time he has done one. With full flap a lot of forward pressure is required on the stick and best you stay in ground effect till you clean it up a bit and have a safe speed for the flap setting  suiting your climb gradient. Always check you have full Power and carb.heat off. Trim out stick forces.  Nev

[Thruster88]

The cctv video showing the stall, wing drop, yaw, spin entry, can be found by searching. 

[red750]

Accident in first 10 seconds of this video  -

 

 

[kgwilson]

A bit blurry but the rounded wing tips look like a cub though the tail after the fire is Cessna.

[facthunter]

Looking at the video, there was a bit of wind there at the time. What was the temperature? Nev

[PureCaboose]

so the ATSB will investigate a student pilot crashing a plane on a go-around where the student walked away, but won't investigate any RAAUS accidents involving deaths?

 

[danny_galaga]

3 hours ago, red750 said:

Accident in first 10 seconds of this video  -

 

 

Again, we need the 😲 reaction on this forum. Damn, I know there could be a multitude of factors in play, but it really seems like he doesn't know to keep airspeed up, in this case by lowering the nose. Of course there could be reasonable explanations, like partial power failure, and there's not much time for the WTF effect to have passed.

[red750]

It was only his 3rd solo.

[skippydiesel]

Assuming he performed stalls & recovery with his instructor , he clearly forgot the put the nose down part of the  lessons

 

His instructor should be expecting some in-depth reviews of the lesson plans😈

Edited Wednesday at 01:27 AM by skippydiesel

[facthunter]

Have You been an Instructor?  Nev

[onetrack]

I think the aircraft insurer could be their main worry, right about now.

[facthunter]

It wasn't done deliberately. I don't see why. That's why Planes are Insured.  It's a critical Manoeuvre. Nothing like an ordinary touch and go that's done so often to save time. Nothing like any stall that would have been likely to have been Practiced either. Perhaps the Motor wasn't delivering full Power?   Maybe More Variable a wind than expected?  Nev

[onetrack]

Nev, in my long experience, and the experience of many friends and associates, insurance companies often do their best to avoid payouts, and they will conduct their own "investigation" of events, and come to their own conclusions, without reference to the insured, or any official reports. I trust it doesn't happen in this event, at least there is video evidence of what happened.

[facthunter]

I've found aviation Insurers that I've had anything to do with exceptionally good in that respect. It's a small fraternity and word gets around pretty quickly of shonky Operators. It just involves the owner and would depend on the coverage HE /she had chosen. Not a Lot of damage other than the Aircraft itself. + the small grass fire.. Give the Airport fire fighters a bit of Practice.  Nev

[Thruster88]

12 hours ago, facthunter said:

It wasn't done deliberately. I don't see why. That's why Planes are Insured.  It's a critical Manoeuvre. Nothing like an ordinary touch and go that's done so often to save time. Nothing like any stall that would have been likely to have been Practiced either. Perhaps the Motor wasn't delivering full Power?   Maybe More Variable a wind than expected?  Nev

Nev, I get that you post things to enhance aviation safety. To suggest that the engine or wind was a factor just muddies the water and detracts from the  learning experience. The copy of the cctv i have is quite clear, the camera is tilted at a 16° angle relative to the runway , the Cessnas spinner to tailcone is at a35° angle . Wing angle of incidence would be similar. Yes the aircraft was initially climbing which would have reduced the angle of attack. Once the aircraft stopped climbing critical angle was achieved. 35°-16°=19° That will do it.

 

This video and there are plenty more like it if one goggles "cessna 172 stall crash" should in my opinion be mandatory veiwing for all student pilots. 

[BurnieM]

I am not sure that viewing crash videos when you are inexperienced will or can teach you anything more than planes can kill you.

 

Just the basics of landing require you to learn multiple skills layered one on another and also to develop an understanding of how one skill overdone can have adverse consequences. You do not use these skills in any other area including driving cars. One instructor I know said he actually prefers students who have not learnt to drive as the skills are so different.

 

We quickly get into the area of instructor judgement of students which is not straight forward.

 

Edited Wednesday at 09:53 PM by BurnieM

[sfGnome]

I reckon that if you had asked that young pilot what he should do if the nose was pointing up and airspeed was dropping, he could have told you, no worries. Knowing what to do is not the problem. Dealing with the startle factor is.
In my training, I’d done heaps of touch and goes. Wheels on the deck, trundle along resetting the flaps, power up and away. However, the first time I had to go around from near ground level (and I was solo), I discovered exactly what that young pilot discovered; you pour on the power and the nose points skyward. In my case, I hit the stick ‘real quick’ and all was good, but was I well trained or just lucky? It’s not like there weren’t other times where I froze. 

[facthunter]

Thanks for Posting that sfGnome . On MY first SOLO in a Chipmunk I bounced as the Plane was much more nose heavy than I was Used to and I didn't pull back enough to arrest the sink and it was an extremely critical Moment as I do/did 3 pointers so was deficient on speed initially. I doubt THAT Cessna Pilot had done anything like what would be necessary to ABSOLUTELY Nail the recovery. IMHO the stall recovery taught is TOTALLY Inadequate as it's ONLY Power OFF . DID he apply enough rudder for "P" factor and torque effect. Probably NOT as he wouldn't Know ABOUT IT.  Most TRI gear Cessna Highwing pilots just the Pedals to rest their feet on. He's not a Large Person so the Plane should have Had plenty of  power  The Fowler flaps are close to the Best in the business in the Lift/ drag stakes but cause a strong pitch up effect with full Power application.. Perhaps the seat was a bit too far back. WE don't KNOW. Just "heaping it on the Pilot" solves NOTHING.   Nev

[Thruster88]

Is it a requirement for student pilots to be able to demonstrate a late go round with full flap before being sent solo? Would it be a good idea to limit student pilots to only 20° of flap to make a late go round easier to handle. Less pitch up and no need for flap retraction to get some climb happening. 

[Moneybox]

Maybe we need to concentrate on the reason for the fire. Why do planes burn so often when crashed?

 

Road vehicles regularly crash with a very small percentage of those catching fire. Surely some preventative measures could be taken to reduce the risk of fire. He walked away from the crash so the plane may have only had minor damage before going up in a cloud of smoke.

[facthunter]

 40 Flap has been Locked out I believe on some Cessna's for years. Also seat track locking failing has caused some bad incidents The HIGH control force required to Lower the NOSE is the Major Problem making Precise Pitch angle more difficult to maintain.  A rehearsed Practice is never the same. No one would risk deliberately Bouncing a Plane to practice it, On ANY Landing One should be alert to "something " happening which would need a quick and Positive response. IF not stable and happy GO AROUND. Don't wait for it to become critical. Nev

[skippydiesel]

34 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

Is it a requirement for student pilots to be able to demonstrate a late go round with full flap before being sent solo? Would it be a good idea to limit student pilots to only 20° of flap to make a late go round easier to handle. Less pitch up and no need for flap retraction to get some climb happening. 

Its now over 35 years since I started training, in a C172, for my PPL.

If memory serves, my instructor had me practised, Full, Patial, No Flap, touch & goes, go rounds & full stops. I do remember the effort required, when asking for Full Power / Full Flap, to keep the nose down and the seeming age it took, the illusion of no movement, to get up sufficient speed, to start retracting flap.

The infrequent days with cross winds were GOLD for practising X wind landings, the earlier side slip training helped a lot.

We all probably feel we had the best instructor - Mine (a local "Cocky") was/is truly amazing. He somehow maintained an air of calm indifference to my mishandeling of the aircraft but  always seemed to be on the ball if/when things were getting out of hand - THE BEST INSTRUCTOR EVER!!! 

😈

 

Edited Thursday at 02:33 AM by skippydiesel