RA-AUS renewal now with lots of Membership Terms and Conditions

[BurnieM]

1 hour ago, jackc said:

Fly cheaply? That ship sailed long ago?  Because hourly training costs for Aircraft and Instructor are generally in excess of $300 per hour.

Reason? Flying Schools want to use expensive aircraft with glass cockpits etc. 

An older Foxbat with 6 pack instrumentation won’t cut it anymore? 
Besides RAAus want to be the new GA, an oft used statement?  They have forgotten WHERE they came from? 

Bruce at Fly Illawarra (YSHL) charges $280 an hour dual for an Evektor Harmony with a Dynon EFIS, ADS-B in/out, autopilot and 912is. This is wet with YSHL landing fees included.

 

Edited April 14 by BurnieM

[johnm]

10 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Thats strange - my local RAA flying school/club has 3 Foxbat's - all with conventional (analogue) instruments. They seem to have an unending stream of students.😈

great opportunity there Skip to quote the hourly rate (dual & solo)

 

- 3 aircraft

- simple planes

- lots of people

- rate ?

[skippydiesel]

Sorry cant help you on the hourly rate.

 

Sydney Recreational Flying Club, information & contact details

 

https://www.srfc.org.au/

 

Phone: 0425251939

 

Don't be put off by the rough track into the field, just drive very slowly.

 

😈

 

 

Edited April 14 by skippydiesel

[johnm]

says as a member - dual $ 200 / hour plus $ 10 landding fee 🙂 ................ 

[jackc]

On 9/4/2026 at 9:34 AM, T510 said:

Thanks Jack, look forward to hearing what you find out

Well, today was Solicitor  day. He asked where this document came from and was it written by the legal team of RAAus?  I told him I have no knowledge of its source.
He said, in  his words ‘it’s a mess’.

He did ask what the general consensus amongst other members was and I said I have no idea really, he simply said well you would be well advised to all team up together and not be part of it.

He told me if I become involved in any dispute that these terms and conditions are part of, I  will pay a lawyer a lot of money to undo a possible mess through no fault of my own.

His next words were,  do I have an alternative path and I said yes,  and he said well you better take it, based on what I see here.

Furthermore, I was told only hearsay, that some members managed to renew without signing? That RAAus later asked them to sign AFTER renewal payment was accepted?

If that is the case, a legal precedent has been set? 
I personally think it’s a FUBAR in the making, based on phone conversations I have had, about it all.

i will talk to RAAus abut it, see what they say?  I guess I will be told, it’s ‘their’ way……or the Highway? 

So Stakeholders, make you own decisions? 

[T510]

1 hour ago, jackc said:

Well, today was Solicitor  day. He asked where this document came from and was it written by the legal team of RAAus?  I told him I have no knowledge of its source.
He said, in  his words ‘it’s a mess’.

He did ask what the general consensus amongst other members was and I said I have no idea really, he simply said well you would be well advised to all team up together and not be part of it.

He told me if I become involved in any dispute that these terms and conditions are part of, I  will pay a lawyer a lot of money to undo a possible mess through no fault of my own.

His next words were,  do I have an alternative path and I said yes,  and he said well you better take it, based on what I see here.

Furthermore, I was told only hearsay, that some members managed to renew without signing? That RAAus later asked them to sign AFTER renewal payment was accepted?

If that is the case, a legal precedent has been set? 
I personally think it’s a FUBAR in the making, based on phone conversations I have had, about it all.

i will talk to RAAus abut it, see what they say?  I guess I will be told, it’s ‘their’ way……or the Highway? 

So Stakeholders, make you own decisions? 

Thanks Jack.

 

Please keep us in the loop with what RAAUS have to say about it. 

 

Personally I am looking to move my aircraft to VH experimental before my renewal is due later this year

[facthunter]

You don't have to Be a rocket Scientist to work out why RAAus Needs such a document signed.. It's a Matter of it's OWN survival..  Nev

[jackc]

11 minutes ago, facthunter said:

You don't have to Be a rocket Scientist to work out why RAAus Needs such a document signed.. It's a Matter of it's OWN survival..  Nev

Obviously they have no idea how to write a legibly,  understandable and proper document for terms and conditions that most people should be able to easily understand what they have created is a total mess and that wasn’t my determination either.

But like RAA not much seems to get done properly they probably ran through AI and thought that’ll be good enough?

Edited 16 hours ago by jackc
Spelling

[facthunter]

Turbs Has never acknowledged Planes fly in the sky with No Fences and barriers and Trucks and racing Cars do not. They can be confined and regulated relatively easily. It's about the Level of Potential risk  You are exposed to and Must as a responsible Body  anticipate and cover. It used to Be under CASA's direct authority which I claim CASA cannot just pass on without Providing some Indemnity. Nev

[turboplanner]

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

Turbs Has never acknowledged Planes fly in the sky with No Fences and barriers and Trucks and racing Cars do not. They can be confined and regulated relatively easily. It's about the Level of Potential risk  You are exposed to and Must as a responsible Body  anticipate and cover. It used to Be under CASA's direct authority which I claim CASA cannot just pass on without Providing some Indemnity. Nev

How did I get involved in this discussion about a document from RAA.?

 

What's the rest of the dribble about?

[rodgerc]

A six or seven years ago I asked my daughter (partner in law firm) whether or not I should agree to an engineering software licence agreement (Finite Element Analysis)….Her response after a cursory scan, “Do you want to use their software, or not?”

 

 

[turboplanner]

7 hours ago, rodgerc said:

A six or seven years ago I asked my daughter (partner in law firm) whether or not I should agree to an engineering software licence agreement (Finite Element Analysis)….Her response after a cursory scan, “Do you want to use their software, or not?”

 

 

She was right on the money; that's how simple it is. The decision making has to be Go/No Go.

[jackc]

4 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

She was right on the money; that's how simple it is. The decision making has to be Go/No Go.

Yes, definitely, UNLESS the terms and conditions are not easily interpreted or well written.

In our case, RAAus must do better, in that regard? 

[BrendAn]

 

what are we paying for if raa have no accountability at all.

thats what they are doing by making us sign these documents.

9 pages not seven. 

i don't normally care about this stuff, i just sign it.

but the paragraph where they shift all court costs from them to us worries me.

[jackc]

1 minute ago, BrendAn said:

 

what are we paying for if raa have no accountability at all.

thats what they are doing by making us sign these documents.

9 pages not seven. 

i don't normally care about this stuff, i just sign it.

but the paragraph where they shift all court costs from them to us worries me.

My solicitor said to me being a stakeholder. I should be very worried. I think the big mistake was moving from incorporation because a lot of protections were lost when that was done.

[BrendAn]

8 hours ago, turboplanner said:

How did I get involved in this discussion about a document from RAA.?

 

What's the rest of the dribble about?

have you forgotten all the posts you made already on this thread. you told me you were or have been an raaus member. as for facthunters comment above, i don't know where that came from.

[BrendAn]

1 minute ago, jackc said:

My solicitor said to me being a stakeholder. I should be very worried. I think the big mistake was moving from incorporation because a lot of protections were lost when that was done.

i am seriously looking at saaa now.

[turboplanner]

5 minutes ago, jackc said:

Yes, definitely, UNLESS the terms and conditions are not easily interpreted or well written.

In our case, RAAus must do better, in that regard? 

The Incorporated Associations were introduced for just that sort of thing. The members had regular meetings to discuss things, sort through the legalese and present clear information to the members.

[jackc]

We all understand the World is now full of Terms  and Conditions, but it’s imperative that the intent and clear wording is reasonably understandable.

In my case, for what RAAus want me to sign, that was not the case so I took it to my Solicitor for his interpretation, which I got. 
Anyone who has any doubt about anything legal, should do the same.

Social Media Lawyers, will proffer all sorts of interpretations, it’s human nature. 
However the Court is the final arbiter in any case of law? 
How many people agree to sign as it is, remains to be seen? Whether RAAus will ament anything, also remains to be seen? 
There are certain words I would never agree to, which has been said to me in phone calls I have received.

today I hope to hear from Cody Calder at RAAus and see where I go from here.

 

[Blueadventures]

9 minutes ago, jackc said:

We all understand the World is now full of Terms  and Conditions, but it’s imperative that the intent and clear wording is reasonably understandable.

In my case, for what RAAus want me to sign, that was not the case so I took it to my Solicitor for his interpretation, which I got. 
Anyone who has any doubt about anything legal, should do the same.

Social Media Lawyers, will proffer all sorts of interpretations, it’s human nature. 
However the Court is the final arbiter in any case of law? 
How many people agree to sign as it is, remains to be seen? Whether RAAus will ament anything, also remains to be seen? 
There are certain words I would never agree to, which has been said to me in phone calls I have received.

today I hope to hear from Cody Calder at RAAus and see where I go from here.

 

The outcome would be a good article in the next Sport Pilot.

[jackc]

1 minute ago, Blueadventures said:

The outcome would be a good article in the next Sport Pilot.

Who knows what will happen? It’s  come to me there has been a major upheaval in the RAAus Board allegedly, as a result of what’s going on 🤢

[onetrack]

Quote

but the paragraph where they shift all court costs from them to us worries me

This would have to be a totally unenforceable clause - because who bears the costs of litigation is very often part of the lawsuit, or an associated separate lawsuit.

 

We all know, that once the ordure hits the rotating blades, the outcome is the lawyers are the referees of the fight, and they keep the winners purse. That is a very good reason for never going to court, unless you wish to allocate a large portion of your life, and all your assets, towards hearing legal eagles argue the toss about the precise meaning of two and three letter words.

[Blueadventures]

2 hours ago, jackc said:

Who knows what will happen? It’s  come to me there has been a major upheaval in the RAAus Board allegedly, as a result of what’s going on 🤢

How are you covered with SAAA, if at all, therefore you're on your own.  Plus need insurance coverage like RAA provide. ??

[jackc]

1 minute ago, Blueadventures said:

How are you covered with SAAA, if at all, therefore you're on your own.  Plus need insurance coverage like RAA provide. ??

Right now, insurance is the least of my problem. RAAus Insurance is probably full of escape clauses, like many policies these days.  Just read some Terms and conditions on them? 
In 30 years of my own business I never held a Public Liability Policy.

I don’t insure my aircraft.  I crash I will die probably, bit hard putting a claim in, from the grave 🤩

[Blueadventures]

12 minutes ago, jackc said:

Right now, insurance is the least of my problem. RAAus Insurance is probably full of escape clauses, like many policies these days.  Just read some Terms and conditions on them? 
In 30 years of my own business I never held a Public Liability Policy.

I don’t insure my aircraft.  I crash I will die probably, bit hard putting a claim in, from the grave 🤩

All good, just asking what SAAA members need to put in place to fly.