RA-AUS renewal now with lots of Membership Terms and Conditions

[Blueadventures]

This is the form being discussed; off the RAAus site for information.  (Under 'Forms' on site.)

MEM007-Reactivation-Flying-and-Junior-Membership-2026.pdf

Edited 23 hours ago by Blueadventures

[BurnieM]

This is interesting;

"(q) Use of Image
You acknowledge and consent to photographs and electronic images
being taken of you during your undertaking the Aviation Activities.
You acknowledge and agree that such photographs and electronic
images are owned by RAAus and RAAus may use the photographs for
promotional or other purposes without your further consent being

necessary."

 

Not really a safety or legal exposure issue.

 

So at the next Parkes they will need to check that all people in all photographs they want to use in the mag are RAAus members.

If they do not and even one (say a wife of a member) objects and sends a legal letter they could be up for significant costs.

The problem with f*cking with people is that they f*ck you back.

 

[T510]

1 hour ago, jackc said:

Last week I got my membership  renewal with the Terms and Conditions which requires signatures in 7 or so places. I called RAA to ask for an emailed copy for me to scrutinise, Cody Calder happily sent me a copy to my email.

So I started to read it all, and it got way to deep for me.

So I phoned my Solicitor who I have patronised for the last 40 years. He wanted a copy which I sent.

Not 2 hours later his Receptionist phones and says, don’t sign it.  I need to make an appointment to discuss it all, which I have now done, for 10 days time.

So  am wondering just what is gonna happen right now, as I also have 2 aircraft registrations due as well.

Other Aviators I know and have spoken by phone, are very unhappy and say this whole thing is not even legal, but I will let my Solicitor make a determination for me. 
One person commented to me that he feels the document was AI generated which means that RAA could’ve done all of this in house by themselves, but who knows? I have no faith any more.……🤢

 

Thanks Jack, look forward to hearing what you find out

[facthunter]

I would be pretty sure that RAAus have had  advice about this and consider it necessary to continue to Function. ASk you Lawyers what they think about Operating under the Law of Strict Liability and that's what CASA applies to  everyone whether you like it or Not. Nev

[jackc]

1 minute ago, T510 said:

Thanks Jack, look forward to hearing what you find out

I am I interested, too.  However I have already made a couple of workable plans for me, IF  this does not end well 🤩

[jackc]

7 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I would be pretty sure that RAAus have had  advice about this and consider it necessary to continue to Function. ASk you Lawyers what they think about Operating under the Law of Strict Liability and that's what CASA applies to  everyone whether you like it or Not. Nev

CASA is a Government entity, RAA is a Company with ACN. Now IF RAA remained an Incorporated Organisation, things MAY have been different.

 For example I have watched Cover More Travel Insurance T &  C’s go from 4 pages to now 64 pages, virtually making their  insurance worthless. Hence, I don’t buy Travel Insurance anymore…….

[facthunter]

Unfortunately that is the Litigious World we Now live in Jack. It's a Matter of survival for RAAus and attempts to Protect those who work for it from Losing their Houses.  This inevitable out come was easily Predictable. Nev

[jackc]

30 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Unfortunately that is the Litigious World we Now live in Jack. It's a Matter of survival for RAAus and attempts to Protect those who work for it from Losing their Houses.  This inevitable out come was easily Predictable. Nev

 Nev I  hear you, but they had a protective umbrella of Incorporation? But greed and egos ended all of that 🤢

[facthunter]

Hasn't covered the Liability they are exposed to. Put yourself in THEIR shoes. It's an untenable Position. Nev

[BurnieM]

If we are talking about Mt Beauty then this was not greed, it was not following RAAus own rules.

 

This was a multi-level screw up.

The local instructor, under pressure from the student, did not comply with RAAus procedures.

The RAAus operations director, in spite of having major concerns about what she was being told, did not comply with RAAus procedures.

The CEO, for an unknown reasons, restricted information provided to other parties (careful wording).

 

What actions are being taken internally to stop this from happening again ?

 

Trying to restrict legal action after the fact is unethical.

 

Edited 22 hours ago by BurnieM

[jackc]

6 minutes ago, BurnieM said:

If we are talking about Mt Beauty then this was not greed, it was not following RAAus own rules.

 

This was a multi-level screw up.

The local instructor, under pressure from the student, did not comply with RAAus procedures.

The RAAus operations director, in spite of having major concerns about what she was being told, did not comply with RAAus procedures.

The CEO, for an unknown reasons, restricted information provided to other parties (careful wording).

 

What actions are being taken internally to stop this from happening again ?

 

Trying to restrict legal action after the fact is unethical.

 

They ditched incorporation years ago, but the members all voted to leave that vehicle and go with the current structure they have had for a long time now.

Yes, that particular incident was a litany of disasters from start to finish which occurred by more than one person, unfortunately that probably still hasn’t totally ended yet but who knows where it will end up finally? Sad as what it is, a person died.

what happened in that case? Cannot be undone..

And I guess the new terms and conditions are something that RAA had to implement to protect themselves but I fear the methodology and how it was written, was there a better easier way? Who knows everyone would have an opinion on that.
For me, I will get a legal determination of how this affects me personally and go from there? 
I really don’t quite understand how an ordinary person will be able to accurately interpret those terms and conditions and maybe everyone has to satisfy their own mind and how they make a decision?

[facthunter]

Understanding where we are at is a good starting Point. Jumping up and down doesn't get you anywhere,. Aviation Lawyers are specialists but stay out of that and Let the Big Boys and girls play. CASA has the Ultimate responsibility for All things Aviation. BY LAW. Nev

[BRL]

Considering the fact that less than 10 percent of the membership bother to vote on the subjects that raaus 

put up then unfortunately you get what you get

[facthunter]

Apathy is Part of it, but not all of it. .Nev

[coljones]

24 minutes ago, BRL said:

Considering the fact that less than 10 percent of the membership bother to vote on the subjects that raaus 

put up then unfortunately you get what you get

Perhaps the 10% are a fair sample of the RAAus membership. If 90% voted we might end up with a travesty instead.

[facthunter]

We have Gone Backwards at a great rate of knots since the Days of AUF The Empire builders took over. Remember "the NEW GA". THAT Was Never going to Work. Nev

[440032]

Nev's mention of apathy is across the board in all things, and unsurprisingly in aviation too.

Everybody wants to be involved in the thing - sure, as long as somebody else does all the hard work to make it happen for them.

"Hey, you'd be great on the committee, you have great ideas and talents!"    Usual response: F that! Somebody else can do it!

I'm in the other boat, working (unpaid) for my local club and its members. I'm one of a small reliable number of members (10%?) who each have particular skills to keep things ticking along.

I think members of clubs/organisations (of whatever flavor) these days just expect to pay their membership fee and have everything delivered on a silver platter to them.

We generally see about 10-15% membership at working bees, and the same at meetings. Always the same people too. And always the same 5% of people causing 95% of the problems.

 

Scientists announced today that they have discovered a cure for apathy. However, no one has shown the slightest interest in it.

[facthunter]

It's so easy to stand back and criticise, but WHAT IF everybody did it. ? Nev

Edited 19 hours ago by facthunter
spelling

[BRL]

440032

what you say is true however while as nev puts it apathy gets us where we are and the leadership think everything is good because that's what the votes say eg landing fees ra say we think its good that user pays, lve not heard at our airfield from visitors that its good however as most stay quite its hard to dispute and the further down the rabbit hole we go.[ just an example]

[facthunter]

Individuals feel Powerless and they pretty much ARE unless they can get together for a common cause. RAAus is unable to ruffle CASA's feathers because it is dependent on CASA  for it's existence in law. Aviation has been dissected into Various bits often antagonistic to each other over turf the rule over. This weakens  the existence of a common voice.  Various groups have less certainty of a future they have had a say in.. WE have gone backwards in the Last 25 years. Nev

[BrendAn]

2 hours ago, 440032 said:

Nev's mention of apathy is across the board in all things, and unsurprisingly in aviation too.

Everybody wants to be involved in the thing - sure, as long as somebody else does all the hard work to make it happen for them.

"Hey, you'd be great on the committee, you have great ideas and talents!"    Usual response: F that! Somebody else can do it!

I'm in the other boat, working (unpaid) for my local club and its members. I'm one of a small reliable number of members (10%?) who each have particular skills to keep things ticking along.

I think members of clubs/organisations (of whatever flavor) these days just expect to pay their membership fee and have everything delivered on a silver platter to them.

We generally see about 10-15% membership at working bees, and the same at meetings. Always the same people too. And always the same 5% of people causing 95% of the problems.

 

Scientists announced today that they have discovered a cure for apathy. However, no one has shown the slightest interest in it.

😁 removed comment

Edited 18 hours ago by BrendAn

[pluessy]

8 hours ago, jackc said:

Last week I got my membership  renewal with the Terms and Conditions which requires signatures in 7 or so places.

 

I requested an English translation of that document from RA-Aus when my renewal was due. I was told that I will receive a reply soon and I'm still waiting (2 weeks now).

[facthunter]

It's in Legalise English. Only Lawyers can understand it. Nev

[turboplanner]

8 hours ago, facthunter said:

I would be pretty sure that RAAus have had  advice about this and consider it necessary to continue to Function. ASk you Lawyers what they think about Operating under the Law of Strict Liability and that's what CASA applies to  everyone whether you like it or Not. Nev

They're not talking about the strict liability that applies to CASA's regulations.

[turboplanner]

7 hours ago, jackc said:

They ditched incorporation years ago, but the members all voted to leave that vehicle and go with the current structure they have had for a long time now.

Yes, that particular incident was a litany of disasters from start to finish which occurred by more than one person, unfortunately that probably still hasn’t totally ended yet but who knows where it will end up finally? Sad as what it is, a person died.

what happened in that case? Cannot be undone..

And I guess the new terms and conditions are something that RAA had to implement to protect themselves but I fear the methodology and how it was written, was there a better easier way? Who knows everyone would have an opinion on that.
For me, I will get a legal determination of how this affects me personally and go from there? 
I really don’t quite understand how an ordinary person will be able to accurately interpret those terms and conditions and maybe everyone has to satisfy their own mind and how they make a decision?

Yet, you do the same to your passengers with the plaque on the dashboard. Not all that hard.