Landing Fees

[Thruster88]

7 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

I think you miss the point.

 

Australia has an official, authoritative,  information source for pilots, its called the En Route Supplement Australia (ERSA).

ALL airport data should be in ERSA, including the airport fee schedule (landing/movement/parking/etc).

A pilot planning an "away" trip should not need to search for the airport fees - they should be in the ERSA data for the airport(s) he/she wish to access, on their trip - End of story.

 

If its in ERSA, the information it can be relied on. Alternative sources do not carry the authority of ERSA .

😈

It is possible that Airservices Australia do not want the ersa populated with no operational info that can be found elsewhere. 

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, Thruster88 said:

It is possible that Airservices Australia do not want the ersa populated with no operational info that can be found elsewhere. 

ERSA already has entries, under the heading REMARKS for airport fees & other information.

 

I suggest that the REMARKS information is of "operational" interest/importance to (private) pilots wishing to use that airport.

 

The problem is not that airport charging for access has not signaled this in ERSA, its that there is a woeful lack of detail ie what the fee schedule is.

 

While a one off (single landing), undisclosed $10, fee may not be too much of a shock, multiple landings on a trip will soon add up to a significant component of your flight budget. Add to this, the the shocking undisclosed $60 fee to access Lakes Entrance (BrendAn above), no matter how wealthy you are, you might start to feel a tad aggrieved, at not knowing before hand of the cost.

 

Its a fundamental right, legal and ethical, that you have  the choice in how much you spend - not disclosing the fee before the service is delivered, removes that choice.😈

 

 

 

[Love to fly]

I find it annoying that landing, and parking fees are not in the ERSA. And I always check before a trip.  Recently have had fees under $11 to land and daily, and nearly landed at Cairns for a week. $380 odd minimum fee!  Went to Mareeba instead. 

 

I miissed Brendan's post re YGRL but it is no longer $66. This changed when the ownership changed. I was quoted $18 to land, and $18 per day parking last year. Still it is an uncertified airport aka ALA. 

 

Given you are meant to contact the owner/operator of. UNCR Airports prior to landing on them, it then isn't hard to check the landing fee.  Might be with noting they don't have to specify PPR for this to apply. 

[440032]

A parachuting airfield (was it Nagambie-Wirate?) used to charge "a slab" landing fee - it was listed in ERSA. How would AVDATA collect that? And how many cans is their commission? TIGER (Singapore) maybe 3, FOSTERS maybe you get a refund and a Get Well Soon card?

[BrendAn]

4 minutes ago, Love to fly said:

I find it annoying that landing, and parking fees are not in the ERSA. And I always check before a trip.  Recently have had fees under $11 to land and daily, and nearly landed at Cairns for a week. $380 odd minimum fee!  Went to Mareeba instead. 

 

I miissed Brendan's post re YGRL but it is no longer $66. This changed when the ownership changed. I was quoted $18 to land, and $18 per day parking last year. Still it is an uncertified airport aka ALA. 

 

Given you are meant to contact the owner/operator of. UNCR Airports prior to landing on them, it then isn't hard to check the landing fee.  Might be with noting they don't have to specify PPR for this to apply. 

The fees I quoted are from the current owner unless they have just sold it. Website may not have been updated 

Edited 7 hours ago by BrendAn

[Love to fly]

40 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

The fees I quoted are from the current owner unless they have just sold it. Website may not have been updated 

Weird. I spoke to Lenny Marshall, the current owner, about 8 weeks ago and they were the fees then. I think ERSA still shows the previous owner. What website are you looking at? 

Edited 7 hours ago by Love to fly

[BrendAn]

1 minute ago, Love to fly said:

Weird. I spoke to Lenny Marshall, the current owner, about 8 weeks ago and they were the fees then. What website are you looking at? 

He has owned it for years

[Love to fly]

5 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

He has owned it for years

Yep, about 3 years.

[BrendAn]

[BrendAn]

Just now, Love to fly said:

Yep, about 3 years.

I thought he had it for a long time.

My mistake.

 

 

[Love to fly]

2 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

No idea what website this is. But they've left old prices and popped his contact details in. 

[BrendAn]

1 minute ago, Love to fly said:

No idea what website this is. But they've left old prices and popped his contact details in. 

He needs to contact these sites and correct it. Those are the fees shown on a couple of different sites.

 

Edited 6 hours ago by BrendAn

[BurnieM]

1 hour ago, BrendAn said:

He needs to contact these sites and correct it. Those are the fees shown on a couple of different sites.

I could not disagree with this more.

 

In a lot of areas, not just landing fees, other users take your information and re-publish it.

They do not ask for permission and frequently do not even advise that they are using it.

Google are particularly bad for continuing to publish old information.

It is up to the re-publisher to ensure the information is correct.

 

And it is up to the user of the info to ensure they are taking information ONLY from the airfield owners website.

 

Edited 5 hours ago by BurnieM

[BrendAn]

4 minutes ago, BurnieM said:

I could not disagree with this more.

 

In a lot of areas, not just landing fees, other users take your information and re-publish it.

They do not ask for permission and frequently do not even advise that they are using it.

Google are particularly bad for continuing to publish old information.

It is up to the re-publisher to ensure the information is correct.

 

And it is up to the user of the info to ensure they are taking information ONLY from the airfield owners website.

 

Well I thought I did get it from their website originally but now I can't find that one.

[Love to fly]

2 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

Well I thought I did get it from their website originally but now I can't find that one.

Don't think Len has ever had the fees on a website. That would be the previous owner. 

[BrendAn]

18 hours ago, Love to fly said:

They cut the VFR lanes out of the restricted areas a few years back, specifically to enable RAAUS pilots to transit. There used to be a procedure to use land or deoart West Sale when area was acrive.  But it's been a few years since I moved, these days I'm usually just transmitting past. No issues with that. 

Why don't you jump in an raaus plane and fly into sale when the area is active. Then report what you learn.

[Love to fly]

5 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

Why don't you jump in an raaus plane and fly into sale when the area is active. Then report what you learn.

Sheesh.  As I said in my earlier post I'm pretty sure there is an issue with RAAUS aircraft getting clearances through active controlled airspace, let alone RA2 & RA3 areas.  Further, I no longer fly RAAUS.  I'm pretty sure departure/arrival clearance for GA VH aircraft would usually be available.  Nothing in the ERSA to indicate differently, just that a clearance required when active.   Certainly nothing restricting it to just commercial aircraft.  I'm guessing you would have to track in/out a nominated way, not to have a jolly within the active airspace.

 

[BrendAn]

1 minute ago, Love to fly said:

Sheesh.  As I said in my earlier post I'm pretty sure there is an issue with RAAUS aircraft getting clearances through active controlled airspace, let alone RA2 & RA3 areas.  Further, I no longer fly RAAUS.  I'm pretty sure departure/arrival clearance for GA VH aircraft would usually be available.  Nothing in the ERSA to indicate differently, just that a clearance required when active.   Certainly nothing restricting it to just commercial aircraft.  I'm guessing you would have to track in/out a nominated way, not to have a jolly within the active airspace.

 

I am just starting to doubt myself after all these replys saying different to what I have been told.

Would love to see what actually happens if someone flys in during an active period.

[Love to fly]

6 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

I am just starting to doubt myself after all these replys saying different to what I have been told.

Would love to see what actually happens if someone flys in during an active period.

You need a plan in the system, and to request and receive airways clearance prior to entering their airspace.  No different to me flying through their airspace enroute to Lakes or Bairnsdale.  BUT you would need to be in a VH registered aircraft and hold at least an RPL, unless something has happened very recently with RAAUS and controlled airspace.

Edited 5 hours ago by Love to fly

[BurnieM]

I always understood that restricted areas meant;

RA1 you can request access and you will usually get it

RA2 you can request access and you will usually be declined

RA3 do not bother asking

 

[skippydiesel]

4 hours ago, Love to fly said:

I find it annoying that landing, and parking fees are not in the ERSA. And I always check before a trip.  Recently have had fees under $11 to land and daily, and nearly landed at Cairns for a week. $380 odd minimum fee!  Went to Mareeba instead. 

 

I miissed Brendan's post re YGRL but it is no longer $66. This changed when the ownership changed. I was quoted $18 to land, and $18 per day parking last year. Still it is an uncertified airport aka ALA.  Uncertified? - I assume that all airfields listed in ERSA  are both public (access) & conforme to the basic standards for airfield construction UNLESS otherwise stated. I was not aware that ERSA listed ALA's

 

Given you are meant to contact the owner/operator of. UNCR Airports prior to landing on them, it then isn't hard to check the landing fee.  Might be with noting they don't have to specify PPR for this to apply.  Man do you like your acronyms. 

UNCR stands for an Uncertified and Unregistered aerodrome. Please give an example found in ERSA

PPR stands for Prior Permission Required

 

😈

Edited 3 hours ago by skippydiesel

[skippydiesel]

22 hours ago, Love to fly said:

Why a no fly zone.  Thought them carving out the routes in and out from the airspace meant RAAus pilots could fly through?  

Friend Love to fly - Perchance you could move your debate on West Sale no -fly- zones/ VFR Lanes to a so dedicated thread?

[Love to fly]

11 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Friend Love to fly - Perchance you could move your debate on West Sale no -fly- zones/ VFR Lanes to a so dedicated thread?

No idea how to move the posts re West Sale, but very happy to end the debate.  Sorry for the clutter.

[skippydiesel]

14 minutes ago, Love to fly said:

No idea how to move the posts re West Sale, but very happy to end the debate.  Sorry for the clutter.

You are a gentelman sir😈

[Love to fly]

41 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

😈

CASA and Airservices Acronyms.  Definitely not mine.  🙂  And an ALA = UNCR these days,  the following link may help
https://www.casa.gov.au/operations-safety-and-travel/aerodromes/uncertified-aerodromes#Usinganuncertifiedaerodrome

Great Lakes - quotes PPR but is marked as UNCR so the PPR is actually not needed as it is implicit.

 

Atherton - Uncertified 

Bairnsdale is Certified

Edited 2 hours ago by Love to fly