Captain

And I continue to see that mis-use of power and control and the consequent intimidation and bullying of anyone who raises objections.

I wonder whether that "sorry" extends to RAA Board members? ............................ But to be fair (how sick is that?), it was also a big issue when Reid was President and possibly before that.

As of today, I can no longer fly. I tried to renew 2 weeks ago, was led to believe a computer problem would delay that by a day, then told that renewals would resume last Friday and I would be contacted if there was a problem.No contact, no registration, no flying, no happy.

I'll be at the meeting Andy.

Captain, I agree with everything you say about the structure, mangement and communication inadequacies We could rectify all of those ( hypothetically) and still have a problem with the aircraft not being able to fly. The show could be run by administrators/volunteers under the direction of CASA or whatever it takes. We may be past the point of reforming the structure and getting the audit OK in any reasonable timeframe for all the schools and some individuals out there. Every day this nonsense hangs over us we bleed. Tiger Airlines was grounded for a while and it had the Singapore show financing it.We don't have any reserve resources. Caught between a court case that could break us (with NO end in sight after years), a grounded fleet because of compliance issues, or whatever. The need to restructure and reform the management, we had better start thinking real straight and get the important/ essential things done in the right order. Two things can be done at once. I would like to know the attitude/ motives of the CASA in this. Unless you do, you are doing something in the breeze. Nev

We are in general agreement.

I'll wager that someone in the leadership of RAA knows a good amount of detail & background of what caused the 1st or 2nd or 3rd audit failure, be it Runciman, Middo or Tizz.

They must know as they say that they are working to fix it.

So why aren't they better informing their membership?

I estimate that it would just take an hour or 2 of someone's time to prepare a decent briefing for the membership.

In the companies with which I am involved, if the equivalent of such a thing happened in private enterprise, the MD would be arranging a presentation or an interview that would have a link placed on the website. If they didn't do that the shareholders would burn them. This circumstance is no different.

Regards Geoff

Andywrotethat was first (but not necessarily best) as he popped out from his dark cave.........Under his arm was a bunch of manuscript paper titled "A cunning plan and a new constitution" The manuscript was long and involved....until you got close and noted that all that was written on the first page under teh heading constitution was "Once upon a time....." and nothing else.....

Andy bemoaned the fact that coming up with a new constitution was brainhurting stuff and he wasnt sure that having started to play this game he wanted to continue......Maybe tyhose that just go fly have the right idea after all......until something goes wheels up...... Getting together with the Archbishop, a Royal Comission and Ahlot-the Harlot + a locked-room and deliberate spinning, and joy-riding below 500 ft at the same time was sure to be more much more fun than.........

 

EDIT: upon posting Andywrotethat noted that indeed he wasnt first but 2nd, curse that fast fingered tubaplayer.....Mavis raised an eye and said I can asure you his fingers arent as fast as one might like!!

"Wow" said ElRatpoo when he examined AndySh@'s draft Constitution. "Have you written that on paper from the Olympics, as I can see the olympic rings as a watermark on the page."

"No Ratty, my observant associate" he replied "Those are the rings from schooner glasses when me and a few of the Group had a constitution drafting knees-up last night. And see this stain here? That's from ...................

Dear Nev, John & David,

We can speculate all we like.

The reason why we don't really know the facts is that the members have not be adequetely informed by their elected Reps.

The Prez says call your Rep, so does he really expect 13000 members to call 12 Reps?

Even with a part functional website the President should be able to further inform members with an A4 sized note, or better still, a recorded message.

But we have nothing, and a magazine that has been delayed with no pubication date given.

With modern communications, my grandson's Kindy does a better job at disceminating information than does this member's organisation.

And if the reasons aren't available for the 4th audit failure, let's just give consideration to the background and reasons for the 2nd and 3rd audit failures ............ or even the 1st.

Regards Geoff

PS I also note today that Tizzard can't even manage to cause the contact list on the RAA website to be updated in a timely manner to reflect Adam's assasination. These clowns are hopeless at the simple stuff. No wonder they fail when examined on the hard stuff.

Or was it the mention of deliberate spinning, and joy-riding below 500 ft that has them so introverted and guilt ridden?

Let us see, dear reader, who is the first to pop their heads out of their holes (not that there is anything wrong with that).

And so, dear reader, this demonstrates that all you have to do in the NES is mention an Archbishop, a Royal Comission and Ahlot-the Harlot + a locked-room ................................... and all participants scurry for cover.

But which of these is the most scary ........ and what are the usual contibutors hiding?

Stay tuned ......................

Hi All,Some clarification. We failed four audits in a row, not three. The Board is yet to see the CASA report on the last CASA audit, so I can't make official comment. I do know some unofficial reasons from a private chat with CASA. We are currently waiting for the Ex to release the report to the full Board.

 

Although the Board do only meet two times a year officially, most also meet at Natfly unofficially and there is a very good communication system via the Board forum and Board email process. Full Board communication is often done on a daily basis, with numerous emails going back and forward. As for more official Board meetings, well you people DO call the shots. If the majority want more Board meetings then it will be done. However you must look at the cost benefit basis. You, the members will end up paying for it in higher fees. My personal view is the extra cost would not outweigh the benefit.

 

One of our big issues is lack of communication. This works both ways. You guys must keep in contact with your local Rep. This keeps him/her accountable and you informed. If you don't like the answers and communication you get, then vote them out. Don't now say "But that is another two years away". You people now have the power to easily call a GM and vote them out in a month.

 

Let me state yet again. This is your Association. You people (the Members) have all the power. You just need to use it.

 

John McK

Thanks again for posting here. You deserve a medal.

Will you please advise whether the Board has received and ratified the audited accounts, and if so roughly when did you receive them?

Regards Geoff

The Board has been training on their governance roles and responsibilities for a couple of years at great expense to the members. I was on the Board when this was initiated and Don Ramsay was on the Board when it continued. There are many members of the Board who have served for many years and would know the Constitution by heart, but often they have ignored it. This is a fact. I am happy to send you many examples. I was on the Board, I saw, it, I tried to prevent it and I tried to understand the idea that Board members have the right to ignore it. And I continue to see that mis-use of power and control and the consequent intimidation and bullying of anyone who raises objections.

Thanks for that post.

It adds 1st hand substantiation of what a number of us have been urging action on for a number of years, it supports what Don Ramsey, Ian Baker & one existing Board Member have reported ..................... most of which has been denied or swept aside by one or all of the present Executive.

Intimidation and bullying of elected member's representatives is intolerable and should demand resignations or immediate member action.

I understand that our illustrious President calls this "robust discussion" when referring to how he treated Don Ramsey, but I think one reading of that is that it is actually an admission.

Similarly the fact that this CEO (so called) is in place for another 5 weeks when Adam got it in the neck.

Regards Geoff

When due process is not followed, for whatever reason, someone still needs to take responsibility. It would appear that a mixture of ignorance of certain legal responsibilities under the "Incorporations Act", and the interpretation of what constitutes a 'Committee of Management" has combined, and contributed, to a less than professional approach to both governance and management. We should however be careful in our condemnation of board members, who in good faith, put themselves forward only to find they were operating in a broken system that was dominated by apparently assumed "executive" powers that stifled good governance and managements practice - an organisational culture that can be well meaning and well intentioned, but a disaster when required to operate at a level, that will not only satisfy the laws of the land and formal contracts with government, but more importantly its responsibility to fee paying members who should, via their elected representatives, be able to have some say in the shape the organisation that represents them.The coming months will be subject to some difficult processes as the board, by necessity, reclaims its position of leadership and governance and management is given clear directions as to its role in the now diverse operations of RAAus. What ever legal structure we operate under, the above, applies to all.

It does however offer the exciting opportunity to reshape the organisation to better serve all stakeholders. Its now up to the members, nobody else!

 

Pete

I agree with you & I feel that the Board should be cut some slack if they are willing to be educated on their failings and adjust their ways.

However I suggest that the membership should not be prepared to cut the Executive or the CEO any slack ......... at all.

With an Executive that has done what this and previous ones have done (or not done), which plainly has been unable to adequately monitor & manage the CEO, who practiced what has been reported as intimidation of Board Members (by the Executive) who dare to question the Executive structure, or move to inform members (I know of one existing Board Member who desribes his recent treatment as "being shot full of holes" for getting in touch with members on a frank & honest basis), and the Executive's overall attitude of secrecy on items that clearly do not need to be considered "in-camera", this Executive structure and the individual people involved in the last few Executives are and have been part of, or the crux of, the problem.

This is further evidenced by the fact that they still don't recognise it, they still don't make any substantial moves to genuinely keep the members informed, and they still fail to perform adequately on constitutional matters associated with the AGM (as one example).

Regards Geoff

PS I am also sure that only 2 formal Board Meetings per year creates a position where the Executive think that they have (or can grab) the power to run things in between, even though the board does get together when called. I recommend that the members insist that the Board meets monthly by phone, video or WebEx type meetings & face-to-face say 4 monthly, and that the Executive all formally report to the Board at those meetings. Regular monthly reporting to the Board by the Prez, Seco and Treasurer is just part of regular (and good) governance.

it appears members have voted with their mouse's....sorry RAT!!...

Thanks also for your advice in the other thread about ER telling your group that the accounts are in the next Magazine.

I can see them spinning this that the accounts have been provided, therefore what are the members on about in this thread?

Well no matter what they say, intentional spinning is prohibited, the Treasurer is in breach of the constitution, and has been for almost 3 months.

ER told a group of us today that audited treasurers report is in the december mag..

You would think that this announcement on the RAA website would have given some indication of when it is expected to be sent, or am I being unreasonable?

Given that audited accounts should have been provided at or ahead of the AGM that was held late September, it is now approx. 3 months and still no audited accounts.

I THEREFORE MOVE AN ELECTRONIC VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE IN THE TREASURER, and I have created this poll to see what are the views of other forum members.

Multiple answers are permitted.

Regards Geoff

.....(in a hushed voice after a look around) spoke to a board member!....

"Erky Perky" replied the Archy "Get off me you unclean boy"

"Don't worry Archi" said Brine reassuringly "As they didn't reply"

"That's alright then, situation normal then. And let me tell you, young Brine, that you'd be far better off speaking to Ahlot the Harlot (but don't go into a locked room with him ................. because he won't be able to get you out), as he is a card carrying member of the Moderatti Magnificenti, he knows all and has even more power of life-&-death than ................

...fireman's suit.....and Captain and his....

...... RM Williams burka.

"How does this look with my Archbishop's mitre and bishop's hat thingy" he asked

"You look great (a mitre 10?)" replied Brine.

"Well come over here, young Bry-Nylon, & sit on Santa's knee. Is there any naughty stuff that you wish to confess?" councilled the Archbishop.

"Well" said Salty, blushing coyly "I did take off last week without putting my flaps down, and I went below 500 ft while joy-riding over Nanna's joint, I did a deliberate spin to see how much fun it is, and I .............

i think the ripples from this are going to get wider.

Next thing Runciman will blame CASA for it all, whereas I'll wager that CASA cut these idiots some slack when the 1st Audit was failed, as auditors usually do.

Well, the RAA failed 4 of them .......... not just one.

Now go back and read the past 6 magazines and see whether you feel, in retrospect, that Runciman and Tizzard kept the members fully informed.

And if you all think the consequences of this mismanagement are over yet, then think again, as we still have the insurance issues, we still have the Court case (and maybe more than one), we still have considerable questions over the accounts (what Reid produced at the AGM shouldn't really be elevated to that level, as they were really just a few figures in a column), we still don't have audited accounts, we still don't have a set of AGM Minutes, we still have the Ibis grounding, and I'll wager that the mismanagement went further than those items and all hasn't yet been disclosed.

The (so-called) management by Runciman, Reid, Middo, Tizzard and this Board have gone very close to destroying RAA and they may well succeed over the coming months when all of the issues come out.

The existing President related how he had inherited this disaster & assured me that he would tackle the issues head on as seen this week by the CEO & Technical Officer resigning.

He has been involved, emersed and embedded at Executive level for a number of years.

To say that the issues were "inherited" is just another way to say that he really didn't have a clue through this period that all this was out of control, and further, in his time on the Executive he appears to have had no ability to put things right.

I can recall, not so long ago, that Runciman was a staunch defender of the (so-called) CEO and Runciman was reported to be at the forefront of leading in the efforts to brand us members who vented issues here, as trouble-making stirrers & general malcontents that should not be listened to, when a number of us have been critical on a number of these issues over recent years. And worse than that, this President lead the push to shoot the messenger by being involved in legal moves against, and denying the membership of, Ian Baker because Ian & his family provide this website.

And finally, Runciman has been firmly at the helm and presided over the lack of Treasurer's audited Report and the lack of AGM Minutes at and since the last AGM. If Runciman can't get Reid and Middo to perform as required by the Constitution, then he can't be trusted to another term.

And I have to say that if I had been President and all this mess had happened during my watch, I would have resigned in an attempt to show some personal honor and responsibility.

But for Runciman to now say that all issues were inherited is a cop-out and for him to then say that "he would tackle the issues head on" is exactly the spin and crap that he gave to the Temora Meeting of Members a number of years ago in his implied "Roll Reid and elect me" speech. Based on the evidence given above, my conclusion is that the guy is an amateur politician, not an effective administrator or President.

Regards Geoff

...warned me about Nanna and her leather outfit, let alone Turbz and his....

..... leather skin.

"But why haven't I been taken advantage off" lamented Bry-Nylon "I was a good looking kiddie that has turned into a stunning adult, and I have always made myself appear vulnerable, yet nobody has tried to crack onto me, except perhaps what might come out in the Royal Commission, about that incident with the Gazelle & the Texan, when I was Jab-bed by ...........

Spot on Shags (I'd love my accountant to be known as "shags"),

And the existing governance, even within the Executive triumverate, still doesn't appear to be able to get the Treasurer to do his job and issue the reports.

Based on the lack of financials, surely at this stage we can only assume that the auditors haven't signed them off ........... which is an even bigger worry than a dysfunctional executive and board.

And I must respond to the recent comments in this thread about our President. He obviously doesn't or didn't understand what the various responsibilities are around the Board and Executive and I sight the Temora Meeting or members as an example. When Don and David's questions started to press home on a few issues and the then President (Reid) looked like a rabbit in a spotlight, the then Treasurer (Runciman) jumped to his feet and made some extraordinary statements about how RAA had got it all wrong and he/they would put it right etc etc ad-norseum, and he plainly made those statements without previous discussion with, or the approval of, the Board. But it did go a long way to getting him elected to replace Reid.

However I have to say that the present President's performance since that time has been poor, I understand that his attitude to, and treatment of, Don Ramsey was poor, & he has been unable to resolve the communication & structural issues between the Board, the Exec and the members, while at the same time he has presided over the biggest disasters to strike RAA for 10 years, or during the RAA/AUF lifetime ........... and he still can't direct or inspire the Treasurer to issue audited accounts or the Secretary to issue the Minutes of the AGM. Based on that performance and the lack of real data flowing to the members on items that will surely have a direct effect on the membership (audit failure after audit failure after audit failure after audit failure, and the legal + insurance issues) I rate this President's performance as poor to terrible (on a good day).

Surely the above are just facts.

And I haven't even touched on the numerous other issues associated with the ongoing culture of Exec & Board secrecy that has been debated in these forums for years.

Regards Geoff

I came to RAA after a bit of cross-country gliding, although I had an engine in mine.

Based on discussions in previous posts in this thread, I would just comment that over summer there are heaps of gliders landing in paddocks throughout central NSW and in my experience they are seldom damaged.

And further, there are quite a few Tow Planes that then land in those same paddocks and tow the gliders out.

If you are going to have an engine out, the mid west of NSW is a pretty good place to have to select a paddock.

Having said all that, there is a heap of tiger country around Gilgandra too.

....re-enacted his gleat fright from Cowla to Woggle Woggle to escape the evil crutches of ..........

....... Nanna in her Arkayla outfit.

"And speaking of woggles, come over to Arkayla, show me your cute little woggle and we'll dib, dib, dib until the cows come home."

"I like ladies that wear dark brown and make me wear my old cub's cap." said Tubb, who had difficulty standing up straight .................. (he had a crook back.)

"Now hold on there" yelled Salty "As this is getting a bit weird (and close to the bone), because I was a cub and nobody ..................

This really is the crux of the matter. We need a skill-based board in governance, not management (management is employed by the board) and there are many board training opportunities available to make this happen. However, the elected board does not own the organisation - it governs it on behalf of its membership. How that membership contributes to the boards agenda, and tests the boards decisions, is clearly the missing link at present. This is about establishing a new governance process - I believe we must utilise the regional club network and be proactive in canvassing, and promoting, what is already beginning to take shape.Pete

There are two other issues that I suggest must be addressed:

1 THE ROLE OF THE EXECUTIVE. We have one where, as I have posted elsewhere (See Andy's "Need for change" thread), the Executive, no matter who has been in those positions, have (since I have been a member) most of the time appeared to run the show on almost a day-to-day basis and given day-to-day directives to Management, often then retrospectively ratified by the Board.

And when we finally got a considered and calm, professional individual (Don Ramsey) into the Treasurer's position, he was mortified with what he found that he had inherited and was not willing to place himself at personal risk due to the issues that he uncovered and described on this website.

2 CULTURE. The Executive triumverate seem to sit in a no-mans-land outside of proper Board direction and also outside of the management, but in a position of control where some Board Members have been abused or vilified in the past because they have tried to push for the type of governance that we all want.

Witness the fact that the Treasurer still hasn't provided audited accounts to the membership and the Secretary still hasn't provided the AGM Minutes to the membership. Those 2 and the President are obviously therefore operating in this uncontrolled no-mans-land, or they would have done their jobs under some form of control by the Board (and the Constitution).

I think this Cultural issue is almost the biggest issue, as if a Board Member pushes to change this status quo he or she is "shot full of holes" (as one present Board Member has described it to me) and whether you support them as individuals or not, just check out what Don Ramsey and Ian Baker have had to say in previous threads about their experiences when representing us on our Board.

Regards Geoff

PS. And in response to dodo's post #569, this "contact your representative" malarkey is, while it sounds quite reasonable at 1st glance, just a sop to cover the very poor communication between the Executive, the Board and the Membership. The responses that dodo received are a clear indication that some Member's Reps either don't give a rats about their members, are incompetent, or are part of the No-mans-Land cone of silence. As I have expressed previously, I have no confidence that my reps will give me the full picture.

Ok Tecky.

I'll concede, but only if you'll take the main Exec & Board offenders over into your bit.

(This was meant as an attempt at black humor, ................. but just in case, I have my solicitor drawing up the appropriate forms in the event that you agree to the above).

Regards Geoff

AND SO, THE NES WENT NOWHERE, BECAUSE SOME OF THE REGULARS WERE HAVING TOO MUCH FUN IN OTHER THREADS.

"That's a disgrace" said Tizz "As I was hoping to contribute now that I am no longer so busy running the RAA and keeping it so firmly on the centreline (avref). I was hoping to take a leading roll in the NES and make yez all p*ss yezselves laughing (a Tizz Pizz (avref)) ................"

"But you have been a reading character" lepried Nobu, who was waiting for his sub 600 kg Zelo to be le-legistered before he ..................

With the greatest of respect to some recent posts, the problems that have been exposed in RAA are not ones of Rag & Tube Vs 600 Kgs.

The staff in the front line are also not the issue, and do a great job under what must be terrible circumstances.

The problem has been numerous examples of pathetic, if not incompetent & culpable, governance and management at and/or near the top.

Some of the clowns that have been most responsible for years of poor management and governance probably think that they have done a great job.

And just read Tizzard's resignation statement to the members again. It ain't his fault, is it?

The Board is to blame, the Executive is to blame and the senior management is to blame. Surely all that needs to be done now is to accurately determine the quantum of blame that should be apportioned to each and hold them accountable accordingly, then fix it.

Not split up the membership into different organisations just because of what they fly.

Regards Geoff

PS ..... And still no audited Treasurer's Report and no Minutes of the AGM, but I guess that is not Reid's fault or Middo's fault respectively, and where is our "I'll fix it all" President in this? Just presiding, I guess.