turboplanner

5 minutes ago, rhtrudder said:

Wondering where I stand legally 

Ask a specialist Public Liability lawyer; they would be the ones suing you if a duty of care applied and something went wrong, so the best to answer the question and give you the correct answer. You should so some reasearch  before you go, e.g. What is the CASA definition of "On Condition", "TBO", etc. and other relevant facts.

17 minutes ago, Geoff_H said:

I assume they are all at Cruise; automtive engines are usually compared in brake specific fuel consumption which generally is expressed as a 'U' shaped curve. A manufacuturer gearing a vehicle to run along the bottom of the U will be able to show, and the customer will find less fuel consumption than another manufacturer who doesn't do that exercise. 

1 hour ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Is it not probable that environmental concerns are the province of the rich and well-fed?

With the exception of global warming, I reckon there are too many politically correct bleeding hearts stopping progress.

Here's an example...  the highway to Melbourne from Ararat has been halted because "indigenous" ( but they look very white to me ) types  have demonstrated against the removal of a single tree, said tree being far too young to have been used in Aboriginal times.

• My experience indicates the opposite; the rich and well-fed seem to be happy with out environment, the people tying themselves to dozers etc seem to be skinny menu under 30 and women with long hair around 20, neither having any money.
• Where there are legitimate environmental issues the people beating the developers tend to be quiet, keep away from the scene, and do an incredible amount of homework.
• The tree is claimed to be a birthing tree.
• A gum tree a metre or so in diameter (not circumference) can be around 150 years old, and from memory the tree was much bigger.

So far so good

You'll be pleased to know you're not losing your eyesight because the people which appear white to you seem to be in direct portion to the remote, genuine tribal people who urgently need help and the multi-billion dollar aborindustry which can turn a buck out of anything,  and, as you would imagine most tribes became extinct by the end of the 1800 to 1930s. You might have heard about the last Boandik "Lankey" from Beachport.

I haven't taken too much notice of the birthing tree on the Western Highway, but certainly someone should be doing some homework.

Global warming has been stopped by the records from Fort Dennison.

17 minutes ago, Ian said:

In relation to cars, this isn't a view being borne out by industry except Toyota whose strategic direction is increasingly at odds with the market. IC cars are going the way of the dinosaur like it or not, to believe otherwise is a bit niave.

The tribe has pretty much spoken on EV - market share has failed to fire, and apart from finding the current minerals (as against an academic assumtion that new minerals or processes will be found/invented), Prime Cost is beyond families and so is incentivising using taxpayer (our) money (50% market penetration - $15 bn/year start up. increasing exponentially by $15 bn/yr. Range limit knocks out most applications.

17 minutes ago, Ian said:

 Trucks are also another matter

Two pilot programmes where you would think there would be a chance - local delivery/local return to base applications, have been shut down.

17 minutes ago, Ian said:

however I'm expecting a bit of a resurgence in rail freight in the coming decades.

In theory, however it still can't pick up from a factory/distributor and deliver to the customer's premises; its these two transfer costs that is stopping it.

1 minute ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Bugger! at the risk of answering my own question, I see the weight of the turbine is 123kg installed compared with 81kg for my 3300 jabiru motor.

AND the fuel usage of 47.6  l/hr is more than the Jabiru uses which is 20  l/hr.

It looks so small and light, and turbine motors are mounted ahead of where ic engines go on ag planes, so I just assumed it was a lot lighter than the 3300 ic.  Of course it is more powerful, so maybe it should be compared with the Lycoming 360.

Looks like I'll be waiting for better batteries before going electric.

Go back to my post on Applications which allow high Prime Cost and high fuel consumption.

Ag Plane operators get their income from rich farmers like you.

5 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Geoff_h, what do you think about putting one in a Jab230?  I would like the extra power, but would not need or want to fly over 120 knots on cruise.

( 120 knots is where the ASI goes from green to yellow).

As far as weight is concerned, the figures show a substantial saving over the 3300 engine, and at least in my case, there are a few kg of lead which could be taken out the tail end.

 

How much would you pay for it?

1 hour ago, Geoff_H said:

I thought about the comments about the dreaded thirst of gas turbines. I looked at the power increase required to increase the speed of a Mooney 201.  Let's look at increasing the speed by 50%, to 300mph. Drag increases by the square of the velocity, horsepower is proportional to the product of the speed and the force. Hence to power a 50% increase in speed I must increase the power of the engine by 1.5 raised to the power of 3, around 3.3 times.  The Mooney would need to increase its power from 200hp to 660hp.  Plus whatever drag would increase by owing to increasing main spar strength and up isconsequent weight.  So apart from finding a 660hp piston engine we would probably need to go to a gas turbine.  If it has the same thermal efficiency as the piston engine we are going to burn 3.3 times as much fuel.  For the same range we are going to require increased weight for the extra fuel which will incur more drag  etc etc.  The exercise looks something like a TBM 800, a Mooney designed aircraft.

Speed alone I creases required horse power by dramatic amounts, probably why turbines seem to be very thirsty.

Good conclusion; that's where the maths takes us.

If you can produce much faster trip times carrying more load with the negatives of much higher prime cost and much higher fuel cost, your market has to be applications which want the benefits and can pay the costs.

Hence the WalMart pricing concept that led to the huge success of the current turbine based RPT industry, and the use in aircraft like the Cessna Caravan and Kodiak 100.

Hitching a Turbine to a Recreational aircraft requires some thought about VNE and what the annual sales volume would be to the rich and famous.

......pull the chain before.....

..........Turbo's tender was the lowest price.

A famous Astronaut once said it was scary to command a rocket, orbital and landing craft knowing that they were built by the lowest tenderer (it took $3 mil for him to agree not to mention Turbine Space Inc.)

Of course these Drifters are a long way from the RA Drifters used for aerobatics competitions; for a start the wings had to be removed to stop them clapping, and these earth-based Drifters were then free to use without restraint on earth or on planets with their hydrogen fuel cell power plants, which ...........

[Turbo apologises for his late replay but was busy painting six Drifters green and dipatching them to Ukraine to help in the war.]

It's in relation to Part 43, and when you look at the legal liability it's much less expense on taxpayers for the owner to have responsibility for structural safety than CASA through a programme which might or might not cover the arrays of models, history of storage, and components corroded. Without SIDS the owner can hire a monococque engineer to decide how often to inspect and what to replace.

From the posts here we can see that two similar age aircraft could either be corrosion-free, or a basket case not fit to return to the air.

From time to time RA people rant about GA people flying 40 to 60 year old aircraft, but often these aircraft when used for touring have more value in the electronics than the rest of the aircraft. A SIDS type inspection+ replace routine produces a touring aircraft not otherwise within reach of most people.

I saw a Cherokee 6 bought at a cheap price with obvious corrosion, stripped and all corrosion replaced for $16,000.00, and it finished up as a cheap and reliable aircraft ready to go for another 30 years for a total cost of around $40,000.00

4 minutes ago, walrus said:

The tragedy is that we should have been doing such calculations 40 years ago and regulating accordingly on a national basis.  Instead we allowed ourselves to be beaten into an anal lawyer driven cluster*&*&.

For Broken Hill it was partly the 1979 fuel crisis. We travelled up there a lot in the seventies, and Silverton was firing up, the Mines had good day tours, and the art industry was exploding with the momentum. You could get a ticket to fly round on the mail run to the outback stations on a Sunday and see what it's like to land in a Cherokee 6 with the wings slapping down saplings on bush strips and then it was gone. I was selling coaches which ran outback tours, and then it was all gone; the caravans were left in the shed or out on the nature strip, the coach ticket price broke through the line of no return, people stopped coming, the art shops started to dry up and the city quietened down.

It's a good time to run all the figures again and see what the potential is; there's a lot of money in the economy.

9 minutes ago, waraton said:

To put positives up to those who manage an airfield I am after positive points to make about what it is recreational pilots bring to the table. Some of my thoughts....

 

Offer diversity for interests/hobbies making that area more attractive 

 

Provide a starting point for training pilots and maintenance workers

 

Economic benefits contributing to sustainability of related infrastructure 

 

 

Directly, they eat, they stay at a motel, they use a taxi (in BH), they buy fuel, When you allocate the number of days based on day visit or vacation, the number of aircraft visiting. number of people per aircraft and so on plus entry fees and purchases from tourist spots, sales of paintings etc it will be a substantial amount of income for ratepayers over a year. I did this and had Councils paying substantial prize money.

26 minutes ago, Carbon Canary said:

Rodgerc - I have a similar situation wrt CTA access and keeping my Pt 61 licence current. If RA-Aus gained CTA access, I'm sure there would be more GA deserters.

 

Clearly there are areas on the eastern seaboard where avoiding CTA pushes you toward high ground.  This would easily feed into a safety case.  Additionally, once Western Sydney airport is opened, even more Sydney basin transiting traffic will be funnelled into the already busy VFR lanes.

There's a straightforward pathway to CTA now in terms of training and equipment.

40 minutes ago, Garfly said:

Well, if we can't rely on obeisance to Rules and Regulations to keep us safe, what can we rely on? 

 

Oh, wait ....                     

This was before electronic control was abandoned in favour of see and avoid.

12 minutes ago, onetrack said:

And of course, in the airprox report, the final summary said you were primarily at fault, because you didn't practice keeping a proper lookout .....

 

Ha ha, I saw him so I figured I had that one covered, but relied on the requirement for the 210 to give way to his right. 

.....gave him special privileges.......

........you just can't trust women to do important jobs, whereupon Nest came back with "I heard that" and " how do you think you're going to get your Pizza tonight?" and OT realised you can never win or ..................

19 minutes ago, peterg said:

Must have been a long time ago - not many 210's at YMMB these days (or elsewhere)

 

Also, that sort of proximity in the Melbourne area will often generate an alert call from ML Radar - I got one a week ago for other VFR traffic nearby

About the mid 80's. I went up to the tower afterwards, and they said they couldn't find it.

I saw the tail fin of a C210 up close sliding from left to right across my windscreen so gracefully when I was inbound from a Moorabbin reporting. Almost clipped  him with my wing.

Waraton's request for information is dated October 20, 2021 for a presentation to the local Council.

Hopefully he got it done long ago and is reaping the benefits.

.......ultimate in drones; a sportair with Google Nest.

You can be watching TV and just say "Hey Google, go fuel up the Sportair, send it to Syria, pick up a cluster from Ahmed, shoot over to Ukraine, shoot up half a dozen tanks and bring me back a pizza, and while you're at it ...............

.....................build Myrias. Then if we go into a joint venture with Abdul's Aircraft Interiors in Dubai, we could build aircraft for the richer RAA members with shopping malls and swimming pools inside and fake surf beaches to make every trip seem like just a few minutes, and .......

41 minutes ago, Ian said:

In many cases the solution similar to Grafton is good outcome.

You have a low cost lightweight airfield which caters to smaller planes and GA and a high cost airfield which caters to RPT.

The GA airfield is not security controlled and runs with minimal interference and keeps the costs low.

The costs associated with the requirements of RPT are clearly only associated with the requirements of RPT flights.

 

Contrast this with Canberra Airport which has created a situation where real estate interests actively compete with aviation businesses. Bunnings, Costco and Government offices dominate the landscape and google maps show over 20 aircraft parked outdoors in the weather. The closest airports are Goulburn 100km or Cooma airport 130km both of which aren't GA friendly.  For example a "grass light recreational aircraft permit" fee is charged regardless as to whether the aircraft is parked on the grass or in a hangar, and the fee is over $3000 per financial year.

The local government doesn't wish to change this status quo even though there's a demonstrated requirement to control fires in the national park to the southwest and firefighting aircraft have had incidents over the city itself. ACT Government has essentially become captive to property development and is committed to squeezing as many people into the smallest slum possible.

 

 

The squeezing as many people into the smallest slum possible is Local Government originated; the objective is more Rates income. It's common in Melbourne where the quarter acre block was everyone's dream, and which today produces Rates of approximately $1800/year, is bought for $1.2 million, razed to the ground and a two story complex of 10 units is sold by the developer for a handy profit and the new owners pay about $1200 Rates each, so around a 7 fold increase on the same street and sewage infrastructure. It's passed off as Affordable Housing (which is a Millenium standard - at one stage a developer in Northern Scotland put 16 inappropriate units on an estate, and sweetened the pie by describing it as contributing to Affordable Housing, because one unit was a minimal shack.

Where all the cars in the old quarter acre block standard were housed off-street, all cars in the 10 units - 20 to 30 plus caravans, boats etc are parked on the street because the required 2 car garage is built to be used as an extra room.

This policy shifts to Industrial Zones where the zones are now build up against residential zones with just a high concrete wall between, and often offensive industries are sited right in among the food producers.

That has its repercussions, but it will probably be a couple of generations before people get sick of it and start spreading out again.

We are not short on growth zones, just that this model makes a lot of money for a lot of people......which is another reason for Local, State and Commonwelth Governments to stand back.

Over the years on this site we've heard about the crazy situation in Canberra, and also other airfields you used to have nearby, so I have a lot of sympathy for you. Take a look at the information on Moorabbing where the Council has finally come out fighting after mild objections for a number of years. Mooney Valley Council is also hardening its approach to Essendon Airport where some industries on the field are not allowed across the boundary street. You may find some contacts who can help you.

....introduced brown ...................

he/she would not quailfy for a ticket.

"But that's racist" said Cappy who'd opened up a can of worms.

"No" replied Turbo "They are either Late or Non-Late; no one is born with lateness"

"So you don't pick up anyone who is not in the aircraft when it leaves?" queried an incredulous Cappy.

"Well as long as they can get on by ....................................."