turboplanner

21 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

A quick calculator fact check may show the data is not quite right. 20 million registered vehicles in Australia, so 15,300 ICE fires per million per year makes 838 per day in Australia. Seems a little high. Wonder what % is due to vandalism or criminal activity.  

For a start, using US stats in Australia is not reliable, but apart from that the exact numbers aren't that important, but when you're in towns and cities or out on the road, look for burn marks - usually what looks like a poor road repair  but usually with a few rusty parts. A lot of semi trailers have been going up also, so there is a fire issue, but this thread was supposed to be about electric rag and tube - very simple airframe, very simple engine. Kasper is the one with the best grasp of what items fit this grass roots application, and it may be possible just to have the electronics and battery/s in one small module which can be jettisoned

11 minutes ago, Garfly said:

Sorry, I misunderstood your question. 

 

Anyway, according to one expert quoted in this report:

 

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/up-in-flames

 

what has changed is that     " ... greed has overcome safety"

 

Which does bring us back to aviation.  (Boeing, we're looking at you.)

 

What has changed is electronics, emission controls which require high pressure fuel injection (200 mpa/29000 psi) and high pressure fuel delivery where there is now a termination in the engine compartment of the fuel line powered by a high pressure electric pump in the tank, which uses a three piece click-action connector/lock and cover above the rear of the engine, all made of plastic, which melts with an engine compartment fire, allowing a high speed jet of fuel to fan the flames. That particular vehicle destructing fire is removed with an EV, but they still have a huge amount off common electronics such as anti-lock brake systems which catch fire and on board diagnostics, rubbing causing shorts etc. and much of the electronic wiring is very light with plenty of clips. 

15 minutes ago, Garfly said:

 

 

Well the big change that the video above refers to is the recall - due fire-risk - of 5.8 million vehicles. 

 

(More than one third of the number of Model-Ts Henry ever made.)

So the cause of the fires is the fires?

14 minutes ago, Garfly said:

 

No, the video backs up Octave's (and Onetrack's) posts. Those are ICE vehicles.

As the video commentary says, oil leaks and fuel line leaks have been major factors.

Oil leaks and fuel line leaks have been around since Henry Ford started to drive to work.

What has been the big change since, say, 2005?

....tking the signs off our airports before long, because when he was Minister for Aviation he wanted to ban recreational flying and use the money for safe injecting clinics, and he hinted last night that he might give Australia to the people who identify as uluruans, so they can .................

[On behalf of the thousands of NES viewers, our thanks go to Cappy for his sympathetic and to the point portrayal of the difficulties Z people have to deal with]

8 hours ago, old man emu said:

The lawyers have killed my idea of getting fuel supplies. 

 

Basically, if you called ahead to me and asked me to get you some fuel from town and bring it out to you, I could not guarantee the purity of the fuel. If you put it in your aircraft and later crashed as a result of fuel induced engine failure, you or your family would be after someone to blame, and guess who would be in the lawyers' sights? 

The second third party requirement to kick in would possibly be the requirement for Dangerous Goods compliance for your vehicle.

These are the sorts of things people run into when they decide to make some money on the side from an industry they are not familiar with, or even in some cases get involved without charging a fee.

However, many towns have a fuel agent who buys fuel in bulk then distributes it out farm by farm, so your idea may well work based on the fuel agent agreeing to come out to the airfield and dispense fuel directly into the aircraft.

....furballs, but he had let his attention wander from his PIC job, and the Jacka was one aircraft where that could be fatal. It viciously dropped a wing and lifted its tail, streaking straight down for ................

[Tears came to Turbo's eyes as he saw Cappy's inclusion of Z in the above post. Turbo had been a Z for a few years, and had had to battle the revulsion from people who found out he ws a Z. No one bothers about the kiddies seeing grown men kissing, but Zs justnever get a break, being arrested, beaten up and generally treated as outcasts]

........selected the Jackaroo as the ideal aircraft, loaded a dozen cans of hairspray which was ab\out all the load the Jacka could handle, spat out a few hairs, kicked the tyres and lit the fires, and the Jacka slowly picked up speed in a gait like a lame kangaroo as a result of bull repairing a puncture by cutting a patch out of an old Fergy tube. After takeoff on entering the layer containing wasps and hairballs he gave a quick spray, then flicked his lighter. There was a "Poof!" (respects etc) and the way was clear and he kept doing this until he was above the .................

................remove most of the rust and years of accumulated dirt on Tasmanian cars and planes (avref) and with Scott providing Defence Force personnel to polish them, cold have the streets looking something like modern Australia, instead of New Zealand.

...........repair any Commodore and even repair through bolts on aircraft, or nosewheel .....................

...stubble on the jaw line which is a product of the male activity they've become involved in since WWII, when they knew enough to stay in the kitchen, chop the head off a chook, arrange flowers or play gold where ..........

...minds to the defeat and conquering of the male species, whether in the Parliament of the Nation, out on the Stations, or taking over the lucrative jobs of Tradies who had only just a short time ago taken over from the Wool Barons. These females didn't just own Aerolites las the common people like Cappy, OneTrack, CT and bull did, but bought upmarket product like .................

......hits up the females students for futures contacts maturing when they turn 16 to give up ..............

.

........Joe Biden on how to do the all-in-one licence thing and  he asked for one so he could keep his skills up to date and volunteer to fight ...............

13 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

Electronics don't like getting wet but if the boards have been properly lacquered a good clean & then left to dry without any artificial assistance & they will more than likely suffer no ill effects.

That might be what makes all the difference. If so then you could design out water issues when building an electric aircraft.

Depends how it's designed, assembled and maintained.

I've thrown about five RC helcopters/aircraft/drones/cars in the garbage after the became waterlogged and defied every attempt to get the moisture/water out.

Add to that a list of keyboards, and computer equipment where people spilled "only a little bit of coffee".

And one large screen TV, unrepairable after I washed it with a fine spray and cloth.

We are talking about a Rag and Tube Aircraft so nowehere near all the systems of a car, but more likely to be designed and built unsealed in someone's garage or lounge room, so a factor in considering the design and build.

The grass always looks greener over the fence.

.......graduate and start the "turbine Instutute of muscle cara and aircraft" [avref].

With the lower case, he was safe from the authorities; with the degree, he and Turbo could quote each other as Sources, so anything, BS or not, the said was the Gospel truth, they could go drag racingf any time they wanted, and they could fly the old Chipmunk the Institute had bought to train students in the LAME course.

"We'll be winners all round" Turbo said, "With OT as the lecturer and CT as Campus Security, with a shotgun and an old Mustang we can offer every student .............

4 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

WHAT  !,

No power steering in E Vs, ?.

spacesailor

Check the specifications, Nissan Leaf has electric without a steering column.

.....then fell about laughing because he had been the owner of a ........

On 06/05/2022 at 6:51 AM, Mike Gearon said:

I was flying in Alaska with an old bush pilot mid 2022. We headed up a narrow pass and remembering YouTube’s of pilots crashing in the Rockies as they lost ability to climb in mountain passes. I said “we don’t have a choice here do we, can’t turn around” 

 

We then did. A steep descending 180 degree turn around in a float plane!

Of course, he would have known how much altitude he had beneath him, but a good extra tool in the box around high ranges. 

20 hours ago, onetrack said:

The percentage of EV fires is probably lower than the percentage of IC vehicle fires. I think I've personally witnessed, and seen local news items, for a total of about 8 or 10 IC-engine vehicle fires, just this year alone. Even diesel-powered trucks feature regularly in vehicle fires.

 

I would hazard a guess (which is true for IC-engine vehicles), that the greatest source of fire potential (for EV, IC-engine, or aircraft) is in the wiring harness - and how the harness is installed and run, and how it is protected, features very largely in the fire risk potential.

 

The second greatest fire threat in IC-engine vehicles is the exhaust manifold and turbo area. Blown turbo oil lines regularly cause fires (when hot oil sprays onto hot exhaust manifolds) and hoses and wiring coming into contact with a hot exhaust manifold, also cause fires.

At least with electric power, you don't have a red-hot exhaust manifold posing a continuous fire threat that needs careful management. If you crash in an aircraft, your chances of a major fire starting, thanks to a hot manifold, are exceptionally high.

 

What we are seeing is a major increase in vehicle fires; agree the hot manifold can be a source, but it was in Henry Ford's time too. The big difference, which has caused all the burnt bitumen patches you see on the roads and the TV stories showing semi trailer loads of frozen chicken on fire, is electronics which have given vehicle a lot more opportunities for failures and where rubbing cables and the quailty of harnesses and connectors hasn't been lifted enough to eliminated failures, or get damaged under normal mechanical work. And the electronics have spread; for example Electronic Brake System (EBS), traction control, lane control, adaptive cruise control are all chassis items. (I realise they disappear if you put the engine in an aircraft, but they're an example of non-engine electronics with will still be hanging off the ECU and other on board computers). In some ways we're actually lucky to be able to fly the 50 year old pre-emission regulation concepte and layouts in ICE aircraft. 

If you add an electric motor to the base load of electronics, and you add a big battery source to supply the power in addition to the accessories, Murphy's Law say you will have a lot more maintenance concerns rather than less.

I wouldn't expect you, in WA to be seeing many BEV or Hybrid electrical fires because of the statistics; 76% of the Australian Car Park of vehicles is within Qld, NSW, Vic (Car Park is the industry term for ALL registered vehicles)

All electric vehicles, that is Battery Electric Vehicles plus Hybrids, pus anything else with some sort of electric drive currently amounts as of January 2021 to just 0.114% of the total Car Park, so you wouldn't expect to see too many burning.

There is a secondary comparison that needs to be made; in an EV fire you can put the brakes on and jump out as soon as you smell smoke, but in an electric aircraft fire you still have those minutes to get it down to ground level and then drop it on a piece of ground that won't kill or injure you.

18 minutes ago, onetrack said:

·    provide directions relating to air routes, airways and facilities;

 

...the missing word being "exclusively".

.........people that day, people who had been in the RAAF and knew missiles, said Turbo was a gonnerbut they didn't know the HZ shake.

I didn't matter how tightly you held the big steering wheel, the sub frame was so flexible the car would steer by itself at roughly the camera shutter speed of a Polaroid (R) camera.

It would veer to the left, then too the right so fast that it didn't matter; HZs never left the road, and as the missile seemed to strike home the HZ was on the opposite side of the road, and as the blast occurred it was up the road and back on the other side. The student was gobsmacked; "Ni hao Wing Lo" he said "Missile go not there but ..........."