turboplanner

....concern in the Wagga Wagga district because the people on the land prided themselves on non-toxic, organic farming to the extent that there was a disinfectant trough at every gateway, so not only would visitors have to get out of the car and wash their feet in disinfectant, but escaping cattle had to walk through it to get out, and self dissed before cross-breedin with the neighbouring stock. One property owner boasted of having a disinfectant trough in his bedroom dorway (although his wife clarified that he walked around all day in bare feet, and after cleaning the pig pins it was less than romantic in the bedroom), so the property owners got together (after disinfecting) and ...........

4 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

The "rough airspeed" figure is a regulation which, if lowered by 5 knots, would enable a lot more weight to be carried by the same structure.

This was the tactic used to enable top motors to be carried on gliders.

The rough airspeed is where  the wing stalls when hitting an upgust. The stresses caused by this are in proportion to V^2, so a 5 knot reduction will lower the stresses a lot. Or enable more weight to be carried at the same stress levels.

Stall speed is different, as has been said, this always increases with weight, well for the same lift coefficient it does.

As I said earlier, the upgust is 40 knots by regulation.

Now there are limits to how low you can make a rough airspeed. It is possible for an unusual attitude to allow inadvertent overspeeding. So there is a formula the designers need to apply.

Before you marry your theory, take another look at some of the scenarios we've discussed here and the hundreds of accident reports where the pilot was unable to control the aircraft as it was taking off or landing; you don't need rough air in the equation for those cases.

BOB Members' Only section with Turbinia Svetlana and had decided to walk home after he'd asked Svetlana to show him how she operated the two sticks and she grabbed both his wrists and squeezed, twisted and nearly jerked his arms out of their sockets.

He's had the bad luck to be relieving himself against a fence post just as the Corvette skidded off the corner and hit him from behind, squeezing his ample gut around the post, creating a reverse Bernouli effect, and spraying ..............

Having spent months in 2020 and 2021 supervising a Covid Online school student, I can give you the good news that most of the difficult spelling and meanings are taught in Grade 2 and 4 to a much higher standard than was done from around the 1970s.

Anyone who thinks they are at a lifetime disadvantage because they say "I brought a new Jabiru today" or "I seam to get mixed up" or "the engine siezed" can break out and start writing with confidence with most common mistakes by buying a set of Grade 3 and 4 English spelling and grammar books.   The lessons like the ie and ei words, silent p etc usually took about 30 minutes to complete.

.........accounts books (she has an MBA) further increasing profitability, which is going to be used in the new productioon facility built outside Volgograd. It was built outside Volgograd becaise of the high chance that Volgograd might just be a stain on the map if Vlad doesn't start to behave himself and .............

.....gentle stall if the joystick is not handled correctly. This video shows Turbiniia Svetlana Kapanina preparing for some straightforward stall practice. In the preamble you can see a young Loxie helping with the headset, and receiving a very cleat "NYET!" as he groped for her buckle.

In the air, all seems to be going well for some time, then she loses it big time when the wing drops and she pushes the joystick one way when she should have pushed it the other, but some calm comments in the headset by Turbo soon has the situation ............

...in the stall [avref] ........

1 hour ago, spacesailor said:

One thing l don,t like on the Hummel , is the forward fuel tank. ( pilot sits to the rear to compensate ).

On takeoff the plane is nose heavey (  but in W B ), so longer runway required. 

On landing empty tank means ' tail heavy ', easier to stall on the ' flare ' .

OR 

Am I wrong !.

spacesailor

Let's see your calcs?

.......technician from Captain Cook GPS Maps Inc ("We always find our way home") had misspelt Moorabbin, making it much closer to Moron Moorong.

Loxie always said that the Restricted Airspace was wasted over YKKA; "You can spit when you go over every time, and you wouldn't hit anything. The people they train are not soldiers, but girls."

Proud in his new Aerolite, he gave an extra hawk and dropped a big one........which landed right on General Foxhunter's face. Mark Turbine, now a Sergeant had been training as a sniper; a lot of Wagga people are snipers, and he gave the General a meaningful look. "Get him! said the General and the Sergeant settled on the bonnet of the new Range Rover.

Where Loxie went wrong was not realising Kappooka were now training with 50 Cal and live ammunition, and at one mile the scope showed the patches on he face where he hadn't shaved this morning.

The Sergeant popped on into the left axle, and the Aerolite helicoptered six times and Loxie five before the wing popped and loxie was looking down ................

.........round The Rock dash in his new Aerolite.

Riverina Pilots are ..............different, and although to most of us the route from Wagga Wagga International, at Forest Hill, which begins with a Lemans Start at the water tower, a run to the Gumly Gumly Pub, a walk (for most of them) to Baylis St, named after pioneer Arthur Bayles (yes we know, sp as Facthunter often says), back to WWI by taxi (for the first four; the rest have to wait until he gets back), and then the flight via Moron (only Wagga Wagga would give a suburb that name) Golf Course, to flour bomb a target marked X, and then via the suburb of San Isidore, where all the Mexicans build, and out to The Rock, collecting a wing scrape of moss (either wing acceptable) then back to WWI, where ........

6 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Pretty poor siting of the fuel load huh, if the burning off can transform a safe situation into a dangerous one.

It sure was not a Jabiru.

This was a Cruising Aircraft, so long distance requirement, and the PIC has the option to decide to give priority to Range (fuel), total passenger mass, or baggage (freight). He can have all three at max so if he is going for max fuel, he has to cut back on passengers and baggage, and usually the fuel burn will result in different W&B figures, so both the takeoff and destination fuel calcs are done.

This pilot did what's been recommended on this thread a few times, and didn't see the problem in taking off with the totals exceeding MTOW. That changed the dynamics of all the W&B components.

........leather jerkin. Long term NES readers will know who this Aerolite buyer is, but new readers might not know the head of the Wagga Wagga BoB, fiery, locker, and all round citizen of the Lost Horizon, Locksie, the ....................

2 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Oops its 45 knots, which makes the argument even stronger.

The impact damage is also exponential.

42 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Turbs, I think it is a bit lazy to say that the calculations are too hard for us. Gosh, in high school we would have loved for a WB calculation in the year 12 exams...  it would have been the easiest question by far.

If I actually said the calculations are too hard, I need to correct that impression. The base equation is certainly learned in Maths at school, so very simple, which makes me surprised that only RossK has confirmed he does calculations and I'll give Facthunter a free pass because the things he says confirm the knowledge.

I just remembered three good examples for anyone attempting to push the official envelopes.

1. Slartibartfast in a Morgan Cheetah lost control of his aircraft after loading a toolbox in front of the passenger seat. He was lucky enough to regain control and weighed the toolbox at just 15 kg, which was a lesson to us all at the time.

2. Another recreational airctraft stalled and crashed on landing at a Natfly after the pilot had loaded it with a BBQ for his stay at Natfly.

3. A similar discussion a few years ago on trikes ended when an official, his trike loaded for the holidays presumably in the inventive ways posters were quoting was killed on take off when the aircraft became uncontrollable.

These indicate that the margins are slimmer that they are on mass-produced GA aircraft.

....story in this month's mag where an Aerolite owner fitted an LKS (Lane Keeping System) from a Hyundai Getz on it's side in an Aerolite, which now automatically climbs away from the earth below, and bigger aircraft, or birds, from above without requiring any action from the pilot, who now only has to focus on regularly applying suntan lotion to his upper thighs during the flight if he's wearing ..............

8 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

I'd just love it if you were to go a little closer to the bone than by saying " the manufacturer's WD envelope gives you safe flights."

Aircraft manufacturers' test pilots spend a lot of time assessing the aircraft, and from these tests the envelope is produced.

It would be ridiculous for someone like myself, or you for that matter to say "Well that's what the test programme showed, but you can go  x kg heavier at this COG", or load outside the manufacturer's envelope tot the rear, esecially when so many pilots don't even do ANY WB checks before each flight and don't even understand how to calculate these things.  

2 hours ago, lee-wave said:

Useable fuel was used to keep the Concorde in trim for the take off , cruise and landing phase of flight.... in fact the pumping of fuel for and aft to change the C of G was one of the secrets of the design success....

It was common in the 1940s with RPT aircraft to be pumping fuel around during the trip to keep the aircraft in balance, but it was a complicated process which, as skilled as the airline pilots were, brought some unstuck.

1 hour ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

I don't want to be a maverick because you guys are sort of right. You certainly have the powers that be on your side.

I just would like if we looked beyond the regulations sometimes to see the real figures.

Here's an interesting thing...  have you ever seen a plane "hovering " tail down and prop up, like a helicopter?

I have watched 3m radio control models do this for real and I have seen a full-size plane do it on video.

Now the models, I know for sure, had a VERY rearmost c of g , way aft of what would be legal in a big plane.

This was a difficult and unstable flight mode. I would never try it in my Jabiru. Not that the Jabiru has thrust greater than the weight.

No, the models have a huge power to weight ratio compared to a full size aircraft and can sit on the prop pointing vertivally and shoot straight up to 1000 ft where it starts to get hard to see the results of control inputs other than letting it just leaf its way down closer.

The manufacturer's WD envelope gives you safe flights.

16 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

You are thinking  BUREAOCRACY. 

A government law that says,  " your plane won,t fly . if over a stipulated weight ".

Of course if it doe,s fly, you cop a fine + loss of licence,  ' IF '  your  caught.

spacesailor

PS : If your nose heavy put a can of spare fuel in the tail.

    If tail heavy, put a spare battery in the engine bay !.  LoL

PPS  :  IF Hummelbird is nose heavy convert to  ' tail dragger '.

            IF tail heavy,  convert to three wheeler.

 

 

I understand you're not flying, but it's wrong to spout incorrect or misleading information.

MTOW sets the maximum weight of the aircraft and all it contains, whether fuel, people, luggage or extra equipment.

All of that has to fit inside the flight envelope of the aircraft which should be shown in the POH.

WD calculations show where the COG for that particular flight will be, so you do your checks with simple calculations for each item. There is virtually no aircraft in RA or recreational GA which will be within the WD envelope, or for that matter MTOW with full fuel, full passengers and full luggage, and the calculations make it easy to decide what you have to do to complete a safe flight.

WD calculations are taught as part of Performance and Operations in GA, but I've never had a response from anyone in RA to say they had studied a WD or for that matter P&O course, which is odd because it's an easy way to prevent a fatal accident.

Just now, lee-wave said:

Maybe a little confusion here...

 

'The maximum takeoff weight (MTOW) or maximum gross takeoff weight (MGTOW) or maximum takeoff mass (MTOM) of an aircraft is the maximum weight at which the pilot is allowed to attempt to take off, due to structural or other limits'..... or have I missed something here....

No, it’s a simple easily understood figure. Sitting under that is calculating Weight and  Balance to ensure the Centre of Gravity at any time is within the envelope of the aircraft. You can avoid a lot of unsafe situations just by doing this.

.....they all flew Aerolites, and so were quite weird, not participating in sites like this one, but exchanging views on the Dark Web or down at Bunnings coffee shop where they planned tactics to avoid CASA ramp checks. They have a sixth sense which tells them when to take off, and...............

......small group who knew what happened to Vince Foster, and ..........

50 minutes ago, Captain said:

AS A CONFIDENTIAL ASIDE - Cappy has received several hundred phone calls today from NES lurkers asking whether Turdboy was referring above to Sir Ed or to Bill's missus. Cappy, who is normally a brave soldier of the NES, and of Wreck Flying, knows that Tubb was referring to Hillary C, but Cappy is unwilling to confirm that in case he might be found dead, hanging from his bed (which is actually a palliasse on the floor, but that won't stop 'em), in his cell (and Cappy notes, just for the record, that the security cameras have just gone dark and his 3 guards have buggered off).

Turbo doesn't normally respond to these asides in the interests of keeping the exciting flow of King's English moving, but respectfully points out that Cappy's fears are groundless because there aren't any new rolls of carpet stacked outside the cell.

.........hung on the ropes in shame.

"Ma hilārī bhandā pahilē ṭarbōkō janma bha'ēkō thiyō" said Tensing Norgay Jr IV,"Tyasō bha'ē hāmīlē bāsṭarḍalā'ī sagaramāthā māthi tānnu parnē thi'ēna."

and so the secret came out about Hillary which shocked New Zealanders to the core and ..........