Landing Fees

[BrendAn]

14 minutes ago, Moneybox said:

We've been waiting since we applied in January to erect a hangar at Wongan Hills even though we had a verbal approval to start with. The airport had to be valued so that they could work out the annual cost of a 10 year lease. Eventually they responded with a lease fee of $1200 a year which I accepted, then they had to advertise in case somebody objected. That was some weeks back, meanwhile I've ordered the hangar minus a door that I'll most likely build myself.

 

There are no landing or parking fees at YWOH.

That's good value. It's $2000 p/a here for a 9 year lease I think it is.

You can get long leases but airport manager said it's a lot of rigmarole to go through. 

[turboplanner]

6 hours ago, T510 said:

Just put him back on ignore, he rarely posts anything relevant and expects other posters to do what he says and not what he does.

 

The only downside is you still see his comments when he is quoted.

 

 

 

 

Who's talking to who here?

[BrendAn]

4 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

Who's talking to who here?

It's not you.

[turboplanner]

11 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

It's not you.

No I'm using different grammar.

[skippydiesel]

5 hours ago, BurnieM said:

 

I was using Tumut ...............

NOTE THIS IS A LANDING FEE POST IN THE LANDING FEE THREAD. Anything else does not belong here.

 

Last time I checked out Tumut ERSA it said;

"REMARKS

ACFT PRKG fees apply. See council fees and charges schedule"

 

I looked & I looked but nary a fee was to be found.

I called the aero Club - non the wiser.

I must have wasted 30 + minutes without a result

 

A good example of why I want Fees posted on ERSA (a simple standardized approach)

 

"My understanding is if you do touch and goes for up to 30 minutes this counts as 1 landing at most airfields."

 

Maaate! In your dreams  - Your following observation covers this fantasy - "Special fees and inconsistencies across different airfields cause confusion and animosity between airfield owners and the GA community. "

 

I am fairly sure there is an aircraft service business operating out of Tumut - lf correct should be contributing significantly to airfield costs.

Edited August 14 by skippydiesel

[BrendAn]

2 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Last time I checked out Tumut ERSA it said;

"REMARKS

ACFT PRKG fees apply. See council fees and charges schedule"

 

I looked & I looked but nary a fee was to be found.

I called the aero Club - non the wiser.

I must have wasted 30 + minutes without a result

 

A good example of why I want Fees posted on ERSA (a simple standardized approach)

 

"My understanding is if you do touch and goes for up to 30 minutes this counts as 1 landing at most airfields."

 

Maaate! In your dreams  - Your following observation covers this fantasy - "Special fees and inconsistencies across different airfields cause confusion and animosity between airfield owners and the GA community. " 😈

Around here every touch and go is a fee. The flying school were getting charged double . The cameras were getting them at each end of the runway , cri was not happy when he saw what they were doing.

[jackc]

On 14/8/2026 at 9:15 AM, BrendAn said:

Saying you always have the same response is hardly an insult.

How come my shire never slugged us with landing fees until last year.

4 or 5 ultralights flying on the weekend occasionally is hardly worth the effort. A data probably make more than the council.

I am flying off a farm now anyway so it doesn't concern me any more. 

If you think it's a good thing to deter new pilots from practising touch and goes, I disagree.

Recreational Aviation is headed  in a direction to become a clandestine hobby in many ways.

ALAs will be the airstrips of choice, fly-ins will be by personal invitation, a recent Qld one saw a few unregistered aircraft turn up, ex RAAus members.

As financial pressure increases by Councils/Developers? It  will see people reevaluate how they structure their Aviation pursuits? 

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, jackc said:

Recreational Aviation is headed  in a direction to become a clandestine hobby in many ways.

ALAs will be the airstrips of choice, fly-ins will be by personal invitation, a recent Qld one saw a few unregistered aircraft turn up, ex RAAus members.

As financial pressure increases by Councils/Developers? It  will see people reevaluate how they structure their Aviation pursuits? 

You've been urging people to do that since the JackC story came on the site. The expansion of recreational flying happened when everyone talked the sport up.

[jackc]

44 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

You've been urging people to do that since the JackC story came on the site. The expansion of recreational flying happened when everyone talked the sport up.

Turbs, every week I speak to many people on the telephone, some within organisations, I get direct messages and all sorts of things from very knowledgeable people in Aviation. 

I don’t only count the forum, as a source of information, but I’ll take notice of what people tell me directly in conversation consequently, you begin to understand that some of the comments I make here are  relation to information that I’ve received from people in the course of those phone conversations. Being an appointed member on one of the SAAA committees has also given me a good insight to our Aviation World.

[Mewp]

I was led to believe that when the federal government passed airfields over to local councils they were funded

for decades through the federal Aerodrome Local Ownership Plan. This funding was rolled back during the mid 1990's leaving local government with control and also the cost burden. Dont lay all the blame on Council, federal government dropped the ball.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

14 hours ago, Mewp said:

I was led to believe that when the federal government passed airfields over to local councils they were funded

for decades through the federal Aerodrome Local Ownership Plan. This funding was rolled back during the mid 1990's leaving local government with control and also the cost burden. Dont lay all the blame on Council, federal government dropped the ball.

 

 

Hi Mewp,

 

Informative

 

"....federal government dropped the ball."

 

They didn't just drop the ball (sounds like an oops/mistake), they massively disadvantaged the flying community/industry, while shifting the responsibility for airfields to (mainly) Councils.

 

The Councils were/are ill equipped to take on this novel asset - their previous exposure being limited to maintenance under Federal direction/funding.

 

With hindsight it's clear that Councils view on this ranged from - Millstone (to be sold of)  - to potential financial windfall (charge the rich pilots for access). Just a few see the airfield as an asset that can serve the community well.

 

Like or not the control/management of regional airfields, around the nation,  is now predominantly at the discretion of Councils - they must wear the blame and the okalades, where appropriate, for their management.

😈

 

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Just to let you all know, I am trying to have ALL Landing Fees (Schedule) listed in ERSA.

 

To date, I have writen to CASA, NAIPS, The Minister, RAA and Australian Airports Asssosiaton (AAA)

• Neutral response from; CASA, NAIPS ie acknowledged correspondence with the suggestion not their call.
• No response at this time; Ministers Office, AAA 
• Very full res ponce; RAA, however got the distinct feeling the topic likly on the back burner (if at all)

I wrote to two airfields, that I recently landed at, who do not have their fees listed in ERSA.

• One responded promptly, by phone, appeared to understood my concern and sounded like they may take up my suggestion to list im ERSA.
• The second took many weeks to respond, by eMail and was quit combative - The writer stated that what I was asking for was not industry practise & no other airfield does it. I wrote back giving a short list of airfields that do "best practise" list their fees in ERSA- no response.

Also had an intestine phone conversation with an AOPA executive - very much on side. I intend to forward my correspondence (to date) to AOPA.

 

In short; Progress "glacial" - need more letters from intersted/concerned parties, to get this simple matter resolved LIST LANDING FESS IN ERSA

 

😈

[jackc]

3 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Just to let you all know, I am trying to have ALL Landing Fees (Schedule) listed in ERSA.

 

To date, I have writen to CASA, NAIPS, The Minister, RAA and Australian Airports Asssosiaton (AAA)

• Neutral response from; CASA, NAIPS ie acknowledged correspondence with the suggestion not their call.
• No response at this time; Ministers Office, AAA 
• Very full res ponce; RAA, however got the distinct feeling the topic likly on the back burner (if at all)

I wrote to two airfields, that I recently landed at, who do not have their fees listed in ERSA.

• One responded promptly, by phone, appeared to understood my concern and sounded like they may take up my suggestion to list im ERSA.
• The second took many weeks to respond, by eMail and was quit combative - The writer stated that what I was asking for was not industry practise & no other airfield does it. I wrote back giving a short list of airfields that do "best practise" list their fees in ERSA- no response.

Also had an intestine phone conversation with an AOPA executive - very much on side. I intend to forward my correspondence (to date) to AOPA.

 

In short; Progress "glacial" - need more letters from intersted/concerned parties, to get this simple matter resolved LIST LANDING FESS IN ERSA

 

😈

Thanks Skippy for trying👍

Past AOPA CEO Ben Morgan now works for AOR fuel? 
I think it’s going to be the old, “not my job deal” unfortunately.

[facthunter]

I can't see how AOPA could claim that. Nev

[440032]

Intestine phone conversations? I've had a gutful of those.

(I'll see myself out.)

[pmccarthy]

You should have ended that statement with a colon.

[skippydiesel]

UPDATE!

 

After a three month wait, I decided to phone Minster Kings office to see,  what if any progress, had occurred.

 

As you may have expected (hopped for better from our servants) - nothing!

 

It seems that my letter was forwarded to NAIPS (despite me saying I had been referred to the Minister by NAIPS) for their action.

 

Further conversation occurred; (My interpretation follows;)

• Too small/insignificant  ie not a enough votes in it, to pay attention.
• Mine is the only "voice". How can righting a wrong, be any less important if its one voice or thousands?
• Would need some industry representation/support to take notice. Do I recall RAA saying they were actively pursuing this? Verbal complete agreement from AOPA ?

I have requested a formal meeting with Minster King to put my (our?) position on En Route Supplement Australia (ERSA*) Airfield Landing Fees

 

Seems to me that I will need all, who agree that Landing Fees should be posted in ERSA, to write to the Ministers office - what say you?

 

😈

[Moneybox]

9 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

UPDATE!

 

After a three month wait, I decided to phone Minster Kings office to see,  what if any progress, had occurred.

 

As you may have expected (hopped for better from our servants) - nothing!

 

It seems that my letter was forwarded to NAIPS (despite me saying I had been referred to the Minister by NAIPS) for their action.

 

Further conversation occurred; (My interpretation follows;)

• Too small/insignificant  ie not a enough votes in it, to pay attention.
• Mine is the only "voice". How can righting a wrong, be any less important if its one voice or thousands?
• Would need some industry representation/support to take notice. Do I recall RAA saying they were actively pursuing this? Verbal complete agreement from AOPA ?

I have requested a formal meeting with Minster King to put my (our?) position on En Route Supplement Australia (ERSA*) Airfield Landing Fees

 

Seems to me that I will need all, who agree that Landing Fees should be posted in ERSA, to write to the Ministers office - what say you?

 

😈

A petition?

[turboplanner]

16 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

UPDATE!

 

After a three month wait, I decided to phone Minster Kings office to see,  what if any progress, had occurred.

 

As you may have expected (hopped for better from our servants) - nothing!

 

It seems that my letter was forwarded to NAIPS (despite me saying I had been referred to the Minister by NAIPS) for their action.

 

Further conversation occurred; (My interpretation follows;)

• Too small/insignificant  ie not a enough votes in it, to pay attention.
• Mine is the only "voice". How can righting a wrong, be any less important if its one voice or thousands?
• Would need some industry representation/support to take notice. Do I recall RAA saying they were actively pursuing this? Verbal complete agreement from AOPA ?

I have requested a formal meeting with Minster King to put my (our?) position on En Route Supplement Australia (ERSA*) Airfield Landing Fees

 

Seems to me that I will need all, who agree that Landing Fees should be posted in ERSA, to write to the Ministers office - what say you?

 

😈

This thread started in March 28, 2025 with Skippy being charged for a low pass over a runway.

 

It concerns me that Instructors never seem to jump in, identify themselves an offer help in these cases. We pay them considerable sums to teach and most industries do this to promote future business.

 

It's also a concern that so many people who post on crosscountry flight (as in not in the circuit or training area) don't appear to have been trained for cross country flying. That's probably because of the drift in aircraft sold, from genuine Recreational Aircraft into Aircraft which have the capacity for crosscountry flight. It doesn't help that during that transition, GPS and electronic panels started appearing in flying schools.

The NAVEX training modules seem to have got lost.

Part of that is that Recreational Aircraft were the step up from the AUF days where flying was made available to the masses with no licence required for flight under 300 feet in paddocks.

Perhaps the training crossover from 300 feet max to crosscountry flight with cheap instruments led to the present system.

 

So I'll start at the ground level of crosscountry flight:

 

Airservices Australia:  https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/

 

Airservices Australia is a different body to CASA.

Recreational Pilots train to Recreational Aviation Australia Limited in Recreational Aircraft, using exemptions currently granted by CASA. However, they fly in airspace controlled by OTHER Bodies all of which have rules/conventions.

 

NAIPS (National Aeronautical Information Processing System)

https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/naips/

 

“For help with inflight planning issues please call the Airport briefing office (24 hours a day, 7 days a week on 1800 805 150.”

 

There’s a “documents and downloads field”.

 

It says “Used by pilots and Air Traffic Controllers for flight planning, weather briefings and SAFETY NOTICES.

 

CORE FUNCTIONS

·       Flight Notifications (SARTIME)

·       Weather briefings

·       NOTAMS (Notices to Air Missions which alert pilots to hazards, closed runways or airspace restrictions.

·       Access

 

Before conducting a flight outside your airfield, this is your personal contact point with NAIPS; initially you have to set up a unique ID, but then current information is available to a Pilot In Command.

https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/naips/Account/LogOn

 

You will have read over again on this site “We don’t have to submit Flight Plans any more” that’s true, we don’t have to send a Flight Plan to Airservices any more.

 

However, where there is a reasonably foreseeable risk, we have a duty of care to prevent it.

 

As an example:                A Recreational Aircraft took off one day when on the NAIPS weather report, (which is designed for airmen), severe thunderstorms were predicted over nearby hills. The standard weather report was more general. Fifteen minutes after take-off the pilot was dead; his aircraft had broken up.

 

So Skippy, you've been talking to the wrong organisation.

 

CASA aren't going to fuss over one person from RAA asking what you're asking because they have enough problems with the pilots they train, but a petition would almost certainly lead to a crackdown on all RAA Pilots like the 2012  Audit where this one-page-per RA Aircraft knocked out most of the pilots for good.

 

I've posted the links to Airservices and NAIPS, and would recommend you study these first to ensure the infformation you want isn't in there somewhere.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Thruster88]

17 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

UPDATE!

 

After a three month wait, I decided to phone Minster Kings office to see,  what if any progress, had occurred.

 

As you may have expected (hopped for better from our servants) - nothing!

 

 

Seems to me that I will need all, who agree that Landing Fees should be posted in ERSA, to write to the Ministers office - what say you?

 

😈

 

[skippydiesel]

34 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

This thread started in March 28, 2025 with Skippy being charged for a low pass over a runway.

 

So Skippy, you've been talking to the wrong organisation.

Turbs me old mate.

 

I have been corresponding with CASA, Airservices, RAA, Australian Airports, AOPA, Antique Aeroplane, Minister King and sundry individual airfield owners. I apologise if I did not make this clear.

I also apologise for not understanding how the bulk of your comment has anything to do with getting Landing Fees published in ERSA.

 

😈

Edited yesterday at 10:28 PM by skippydiesel

[skippydiesel]

14 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

 

Thank you for your support.

 

It would seem you are uninterred, possibly not benefit, from having a single, easy, point of reference (ERSA) for Landing Fees.

 

😈

 

 

 

 

[BurnieM]

56 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

<snip>

 

As an example:                A Recreational Aircraft took off one day when on the NAIPS weather report, (which is designed for airmen), severe thunderstorms were predicted over nearby hills. The standard weather report was more general. Fifteen minutes after take-off the pilot was dead; his aircraft had broken up.

 

<snip>

Yes, Skip is flogging an idea that many in power are ignoring but it does have some merit.

 

Not really about cross country planning and safety tho.

 

The example above was a pilot who was given a cross country endorsement without doing any of the cross country training, exercises or assessment. This was not a pilot who ignored his training. He did ignore some very basic risk factors including low cloud and rain that could be seen before taking off. This was a failure at an organisation level that we have still not seen the end of.

 

[skippydiesel]

9 hours ago, Moneybox said:

A petition?

Yes or just individuals sending letters in to Minister King, supporting the the need to have landing Fees posted in ERSA.

 

It seems I am making the running on this but this doesn't prevent others from supporting/joining/making suggestions on how to further the objective.

 

😈

 

[BrendAn]

4 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Yes or just individuals sending letters in to Minister King, supporting the the need to have landing Fees posted in ERSA.

 

It seems I am making the running on this but this doesn't prevent others from supporting/joining/making suggestions on how to further the objective.

 

😈

 

you really think minister king could care less about rec fliers. she has her lifetime kickback from qantas, i don't think we match that.   only interested in the big end of town.