Landing Fees

[BrendAn]

I know an instructor that was getting charged double landing fees.

The cameras at each end were getting him on touch and goes.

Avdata being what they are just billed him anyway . They must have reckoned he was doing 30 second 

Circuits

[skippydiesel]

13 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

 

. They are only affected if you enter their circuit .

NO! They do not own the airspace above the field. As long as you do not land (wheels touch the ground) you can not be charged. 😈

[turboplanner]

5 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

NO! They do not own the airspace above the field. As long as you do not land (wheels touch the ground) you can not be charged. 😈

There is a specific post or series of posts which found who owns the land above the property.

[skippydiesel]

On 29/05/2026 at 2:38 PM, skippydiesel said:

Back to Landing Fees:

 

Reference : ERSA

 

It's come to my notice (two landings at two diffrent airfields) that some airfields state that they charge a landing feed but do not say what that fee is. 

 

I believe it is against Australian Consumer Law, to charge for any Good or Service, without disclosing the fee befor the Good or Service is provided.

 

This makes sense, as accepting the published/posted fee, is tantamount to the customer (me) agreeing to a contract to pay the provider, for the good or service provided. No fee no contract!

 

If I be correct (??) would it be appropriate to refuse payment, when AvData bill for the landing(s)??

 

😈

The above is now the question being asked (note the date).

 

There have been some speculative debate on the topic

 

Unfortunately some tangential stuff, that has almost no relation to the requirement to post all charges/fees,  that has largely already been answered much earlier in this thread.😈

 

[facthunter]

There's NO Limit on this topic. The real issue is why are we forced to do Business through this Intermediary at all? It's in a MONOPOLY Position with a very Questionable Accuracy record, over a long period of time using methods that encourage dangerous practices and behaviour and add significant costs to the FEE for the  item, in question..Nev

[turboplanner]

2 minutes ago, facthunter said:

There's NO Limit on this topic. The real issue is why are we forced to do Business through this Intermediary at all? It's in a MONOPOLY Position with a very Questionable Accuracy record, over a long period of time using methods that encourage dangerous practices and behaviour and add significant costs to the FEE for the  item, in question..Nev

If this was an Incorporated Association, it would be put on the Agenda for a Committee to engage with Avdata and sort it out. Instead the Limited Company isn't paying the bills, and has no obligation to fix what is an outside charging issue between individuals and Avdata and Airfield owners.

[jackc]

Well, there is probably an easy solution. Everyone refused to pay AVdata and contact the airport owners directly,  and offer to pay them? 
 

[skippydiesel]

Turbs,

Do you have any legal insight/comment on, what I believe is a requirement under Australian Consumer Law, to post (advertise, etc) the fees that may be levied/charged by an airfield management, should you use their facility??😈

[skippydiesel]

Just now, jackc said:

Well, there is probably an easy solution. Everyone refused to pay AVdata and contact the airport owners directly,  and offer to pay them? 
 

What do you feel about offering to/ or being asked to pay a fee,  that you do not know what the amount will be, until you receive the bill/invoice???😈

[jackc]

1 minute ago, skippydiesel said:

What do you feel about offering to/ or being asked to pay a fee,  that you do not know what the amount will be, until you receive the bill/invoice???😈

Two things,  you phone up the airfield owner and ask how much are their  landing fees to pay them. If you then decide to fly there? you tell them you’re flying there and they can send you an invoice and you pay them direct.

 

[Garfly]

41 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

What do you feel about offering to/ or being asked to pay a fee,  that you do not know what the amount will be, until you receive the bill/invoice???😈

Personally, if the amount at stake is in the order of ten bucks I'd save my rage for more important things. 

[Such as private fee collection outfits hijacking tracking info designed for safety to 'discover' the whereabouts of aeroplanes for profit. It'd be outrageous enough even if they took pains to always get it right.]

Edited Sunday at 10:31 AM by Garfly

[skippydiesel]

14 minutes ago, jackc said:

Two things,  you phone up the airfield owner and ask how much are their  landing fees to pay them. If you then decide to fly there? you tell them you’re flying there and they can send you an invoice and you pay them direct.

 

When did you last try to contact a Council  for airport fees? Unless you strike lucky, it will take anything from a few days to weeks for a response.

 

Further, I believe the law requires fees to be "posted" meaning they must be easily accessible to protective customers BEFORE using the good/service.

 

😈

[onetrack]

Well, Skippy, it be time for you to fire up your wordsmith skills and fire off "registered mail" letters to all those airport owners, stating that under the ACL, they are required to post their fees and charges clearly and upfront. By sending registered mail, none of them can say they never got your email. Then you can sit back and examine their replies and excuses.

[jackc]

12 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

When did you last try to contact a Council  for airport fees? Unless you strike lucky, it will take anything from a few days to weeks for a response.

 

Further, I believe the law requires fees to be "posted" meaning they must be easily accessible to protective customers BEFORE using the good/service.

 

😈

In which case they should be published on the council website just like there garbage disposal fees at their landfill stations. If enough people ring these councils up they may begin to get the message but it’s easier to brush off just one or two inquiries but if no one‘s gonna bother to take the time and collectively do something together for the better good of us all.
Why because Australians are inherently lazy and only care about themselves🤢

[skippydiesel]

2 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Well, Skippy, it be time for you to fire up your wordsmith skills and fire off "registered mail" letters to all those airport owners, stating that under the ACL, they are required to post their fees and charges clearly and upfront. By sending registered mail, none of them can say they never got your email. Then you can sit back and examine their replies and excuses.

Thanks Onetrack - I was hoping for some informed legal comment on what I understand is the responsibility of a service/good provider to a propective customer.

 

Not much point in me firing off letters to Councils, if I am wrong in my understanding.

😈

[onetrack]

Skippy, the ACL requirements are clear - businesses are required to be transparent about their product pricing, and must not indulge in misleading or deceptive practices. Coles and Woolies are currently learning this hard lesson.

 

https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/pricing

 

[skippydiesel]

21 minutes ago, Garfly said:

Personally, if the amount at stake is in the order of ten bucks I'd save my rage for more important things. 

I am appalled by this sort of elitist sentiment.

 

What does it matter if its $10 or $10,000? The principal that, you as the customer should know what you are up for BEFORE using the service is I believe, morally and legally required.

 

Next time you go on a multi stage/landing trip (thats if you ever do)- should you not have some idea of what the cumulative landing/parking/overnight (even using certain taxi ways) fees may be?😈

[Garfly]

Well you're finally getting the little debate you wanted.  

But some of us have other fish to fry.

[skippydiesel]

9 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Skippy, the ACL requirements are clear - businesses are required to be transparent about their product pricing, and must not indulge in misleading or deceptive practices. Coles and Woolies are currently learning this hard lesson.

 

https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/pricing

 

Agreed!

There may be a difference here - Coles & Woolies would seem to have used a process intended to decisive customers, into believing they were getting a product at a lower price.

The airport owner are not informing the customer of a price at all. Is this deceptive or just negligent? I guess the outcome is just the same, the pilot/customer gets a demand for payment that could be a lot more than expected. More or less, is the customer/pilot obliged to pay a fee that he/she did not contract for??😈

 

Edited Sunday at 10:49 AM by skippydiesel

[skippydiesel]

From the ACC;

Price displays

• Businesses must communicate clear and accurate prices prior to consumers booking, ordering or purchasing. They must not mislead consumers about their prices.
• There are specific laws about how businesses must display their prices.
• Businesses must display a total price that includes taxes, duties and all unavoidable or pre-selected extra fees.
• If a business charges a surcharge for card payment, weekends or public holidays, it must follow the rules about displaying the surcharge.
• If more than one price is displayed for an item, the business must charge the lowest price, or stop selling the item until the price is corrected.

[onetrack]

On the other hand - the Victorian Consumer Affairs site says a business is, "generally not obliged to list or display its prices". This goes counter to my interpretation of the ACL site wording.

 

However, I do still come across a sizeable number of businesses that advertise their pricing is, "available upon application". So, Skippy, it looks like you will have to ask every airstrip/aerodrome you wish to land at, for a list of their landing fees and charges.

 

A failure to provide that full list of fees and charges for use of their facilities, after requesting it, could be construed as misleading and deceptive conduct.

 

https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/consumers-and-businesses/products-and-services/business-practices/advertising-and-promotions/pricing

 

Edited Sunday at 11:03 AM by onetrack

[BrendAn]

28 minutes ago, Garfly said:

Well you're finally getting the little debate you wanted.  

But some of us have other fish to fry.

It might only be ten bucks but it adds up quick when you are training or practising touch and goes.

I believe they are discouraging people from practising what they have learnt in flight school

 

Edited Sunday at 11:08 AM by BrendAn

[Garfly]

That's not at all what I was on about.

But let it pass.

 

 

[BurnieM]

The argument is if it costs more than $10 to save the $10 they are demanding then it is cheaper to just pay.

 

If the landing fee is published on say a council website that is accessible then it is probable that the law does require you to pay.

However it seems unlikely that a council will take action if you refuse to pay one landing fee.

 

If it is not published somewhere easy to access then sending an email to the manager of the airport you intend to land at say a week before you intend to land is a reasonable amount of time ahead to expect an transparent cost.

If no response then refuse to pay any demand after.

 

The other question is what does Avdata do if you refuse to pay one landing fee ? Nothing ?

What does Avdata do if you refuse to pay 50 landing fees ?

 

Is anybody aware of Avdata ever taking any legal action against any aircraft owner ?

If this has never happened then this is probably your answer.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 11:29 AM by BurnieM

[BrendAn]

4 minutes ago, Garfly said:

That's not at all what I was on about.

But let it pass.

 

 

ok i must have misunderstood. sorry