Captain

....when he gets too excited. We all know that their relationship is not recognised except in the state of Tasmania, but that doesn't mean that....

...... when it rains the limestone gnomette partially disolves and Ratty gets a stalagmite that would ................

...... buy a new ceremonial Air-Commodore's (or Air-Camry's) jump suit, give it a good polish, go the way of the Tasmanian Tiger (& the Tasmanian economy) and f............

.... find religion (praise be to CASA [hallelujah ......... and pass the thru-bolt nuts] the deity that looks after ..............

.....

• About 5 hours of other vital discussion about the performance of the Board, the wishes of the Membership and the need for communication between our Board and the membership (as well as the "unthinking, unenlightened and uninformed minority with personal issues to pursue") as Board Member Apps described us all.
   
   
  

By the end of that you will have a hunkered down Board with all the barricades up; tired, frustrated members whose humor is somewhat tested and who are likely to undertake an ill advised (in the cold light of day) action.

I suspect if the meeting unfolds like that it will end in tears.

David,

The estimate of 5 hrs is purely mine (and it will be a lot more interesting than the last AGM).

The meeting will go for as long as the membership in attendance choose for it to go. And that is how it should be.

For a start there are 13 Board Members who will probably wish to speak on some matters, & if some of the dead wood choose to respout or defend the tripe that they dished up in their electioneering statements Vs their actual performance then that might be interesting and take some time.

If everything is hunky-dory then it'll take no time at all to get to the issues, but if problem after problem need discussion, it will take a while.

From the problems that I am aware of, including some that are yet to become public, I would expect that the meeting will go on for a while and some members who haven't been digging for too long will be staggered by the depth and extent of RAA's issues.

The membership will and should decide ....... and it will be a good thing for the RAA for the Board and the Executive to be reminded that they are accountable to the membership and the membership will hold them accountable (my prediction).

Riley,

Fantastic post # 274 and very relevant analogy. I have never understood, until now, why the Ex-President & some Board Members have turned on John McKeown and Jim Tatlock (& some previous Board Members) like they have when John and Jim were just asking reasonable questions and trying to do their jobs as Board Members. Put your analogy together with a long-term culture of Executive secrecy, control and sometimes questionable competence on some key issues, & there you have it.

Regards Geoff

David your frustration is no doubt felt by many on this forum. However we need a statement from the board in response the the many questions being raised prior to the GM. My concern is that the lack of governance process is the cause of the operational issues and their resultant negative impact on RAAus members. The Board needs to understand their role in allowing what is a nothing more than a governance mess to evolve and tell the membership how they are going to address it to ensure that it does not happen in the future. This does not need a GM but the GM would be the appropriate means of communicating a Board response to the membership. Depending on the response the membership will have a clearer understanding of the way forward. I know some of the Board are up to it....but is it a majority?Pete

I am in favour of the current process.

It will do the Board, and more particularly the Executive, good to face the members and just for the record again (and for DWF's reference), the GM on Feb 9th has been requisitioned by well in excess of a Constitutionally correct number of members.

Everyone with whom I have been speaking in preparation for the Feb 9th meeting are well aware of the desire to hear what each Board Member has to say about numerous issues which I regard as critical to the future success of RAA and if any answers are pathetic or unsatisfactory, then those Board Members need to then be afforded natural justice by the meeting.

Personally, I can't see how the Treasurer can avoid a Motion of No Confidence at the Feb 9th meeting, but the members in attendance will decide what the Motions will be.

I'm sure that the meeting will be recorded, if not video'd, so I'm sure that any interested members who can't attend will be subsequently afforded the opportunity to examine an unsanitised version of what is said at that meeting.

Ex-President Runciman has advised that he expects a lynch-mob mentality to prevail on Feb 9th. I have responded to him that I am not aware of anyone who is attending who is planning to take that approach, but I also told him that it would be reasonable to expect that some grounded members, or aircraft importers or aircraft manufacturers ,or disillusioned members, that are personally or financially disadvanted by RAA's loss of their CASA Charter, might be a bit snakey at the Feb 9th meeting.

I also told the Ex-President and Board that I would personally do all that I can, from the floor, to keep the meeting civil and considered.

But I also told him that if Board Member Apps wants to continue on with his crap about the membership who requisitioned the Feb 9th meeting as being "unthinking, unenlightened and uninformed minority with personal issues to pursue", then I'll be the 1st to go and locate a tree (figuratively speaking of course).

As one small item at the Feb 9th meeting, I will be interested to hear Board Members Apps, Thobaven and Brietkreutz speak to, explain and defend their written statements that this meeting is just being called by a bunch of unthinking, uninformed malcontent sh*tstirrers, ex-Board members (who they say actually caused most of the RAA's current problems) and those with a personal agenda wanting to harm the RAA (my paraphrase).

But more interesting will be to hear them all explain how their fine management of the Association have resulted in so many breaches of the Constitution and Legislation, along with the well documented failures of management and governance.

I predict that there will be no lynchings at the Feb 9th meeting, but the motions from the floor might set the scene, or the process in place, for affirmative action at the Meeting of Members at Natfly. But the membership in attendance will do what they think best at that meeting.

But I also almost guarantee you that Item 1 on Feb 9th will be to decide, once and for all, what is the Ex-President's present status after his resignation as Nth Qld Representative.

Regards Geoff

PS ........... DWF ......... I expect the outcomes of the Feb 9th meeting to be:

• I will be able to hear from & evaluate the performance of each & every Board Member.
   
   
  
• I and all other members will be able to gain an appreciation of just how big a mess the RAA is in.
   
   
  
• Each Board Member will hear what the membership in attendance have to say.
   
   
  
• The meeting will afford the membership the 1st opportunity for a long time to hear what the Board have to say on numerous vital issues to the ongoing operation of RAA and to pursue supplemantary questions.
   
   
  
• This meeting will not allow answers to be sanitised and no further discussion permitted (refer to David I's questions on notice to the last AGM which received scant or nil response).
   
   
  
• The Treasurer will stand in all his glory and explain why the audited Financial Report was not presented to the AGM when the report was signed off on Aug 30th.
   
   
  
• The Secretary will stand before the meeting and explain why he overstated the RAA Membership numbers by approx. 30% to the AGM, no less, and then stated to the AGM how "heartening" those numbers are .... which clearly & falsely indicated from him that the RAA was in good condition.
   
   
  
• The membership and the Board will learn 1st hand why the Ex-President was returned to that position based on a verbal discussion between Middo, Runciman and the RAA legal advisor, and a vote of the Board was taken on the basis of that verbal advice (and a wink and a nod). Why I say that the Board might even learn is that as of this weekend, no written legal opinion has yet been provided to them).
   
   
  
• About 5 hours of other vital discussion about the performance of the Board, the wishes of the Membership and the need for communication between our Board and the membership (as well as the "unthinking, unenlightened and uninformed minority with personal issues to pursue") as Board Member Apps described us all.
   
   
  

Is whether your the lucky Jab Jocky flying in the OK 6 cylinders, or the poor bugger in the next who has one pot that is feeling the need to be free when you least need it......Bit like E Paullette he should be free, banking (>30deg) and stalling (aerobatically) as needed in Tasswegia but instead he was chained to a desk containing a calculator, a ledger, and a book " The idiots guide to financial excuses" and a big drum that had a label on it "member tickets, lolly wrappers and other assorted office rubbish..........Elrato was heard to be snickering in the shaddows at the back of the room...........Monseur Paullette , I think you should.......

...... buy a new ceremonial Air-Commodore's (or Air-Camry's) jump suit, give it a good polish, go the way of the Tasmanian Tiger (& the Tasmanian economy) and f............

Welcome Peter

I hope that you enjoy and get as much out of this site as I have.

Regards Geoff

Thanks Ian,

If you need any more technical assistance, I'm just a phone or Skype call away.

Now I feel bad about being flippant, .......... and I must add that when the site was down I realised (again) how often I click on and how much I enjoy it.

And it has also become clear to many that without this site, RAA Members wouldn't have a clue, and would have no way to become clueful, about the issues plagueing RAA at the moment.

So keep up the good work and I'll come back to you for a Goldie Membership again.

Regards Geoff

Ian,

Wouldn't it have been easier to just turn it off, wait 30 secs, then back on again?

Hope that helps.

Regards Geoff

...... came to me when he won the part as Butters in Southpark. Can you see the rikeness berow? I taught him all he needed to know, incruding ...........

[ATTACH=full]20301[/ATTACH]

..... how to cly effectively when giving a lesignation speech, how to go to Brizzy for Chrissy to wear your Cozzy at the pool, and how to ...........

My Aunt was asking last night, out in the garden, what has happened to the Footlong. She thinks that one of you derros may have offended him (or her) (NTTIAWWT).

John,

Thanks a lot for your post. A great example of communication without putting Board "In-camera" issues at risk.

Re your final paragraph, it sounds like the "Puppet-Master" was pulling the strings again and "managing" the outcomes.

And the more examples I see of what has been going on over recent years, the more I am convinced that the "Puppet-Master" has been plying his trade & manipilating issues within RAA for years.

When you look at it that way you can see how all or many of these problems have arisen and are now coming to a head through late 2011 and onward into 2013 ..... and they aren't over, or all out in the open, yet.

Regards Geoff

You're missing a category.The good candidate who wants to be part of the solution.

I predict that the vast majority of members who will attend the General Meeting on Feb 9th are good members who want to be part of the solution.

Re you post # 125, of course there will be divergent views amongst the 13,000, no 12,000, no 11,000, no 10,000 or maybe 9,000 members, but how big a mess must RAA get into before you accept that the main view opposing this Executive is the right view?

I suggest that you and all other members come to Canberra on Feb 9th to hear, discuss and debate the list of grievances and charges where this Executive & Board have not met their fiduciary & management/stewardship obligations ..... and anything else that the membership chooses to raise.

Regards Geoff

How long ago did the committee know that Tizzard would be finishing and how many committee members are there available to create a PD and then initiate a discussion on it

This exercise by RAA is another clear example of incompetence at Executive level, and this makes RAA look even more dysfunctional (and pathetic) than it did before this p*ss-poor effort.

Any decent potential candidate will run a mile when they have this clear example shoved in their faces of how this Executive and Board operate.

Not good enough Paul, Eugene and the defacto Steve. Please get out of the way and allow RAA to pick up it's game.

The Board has no power under the Constitution to fill a casual vacancy on the Board by any means other than an election by Queensland members who live North of latitude 22 deg South. On this logic, Runciman is not President and is acting Ultra Vires. He needs to be very careful or he may end up with a very big bill to repay to RA-Aus.

Once the RAA's own lawyers prove that member Runciman is not President, the membership will expect him to reimburse RAA for airfares and accommodation associated with the Board Meeting on Feb 8th and the GM on Feb 9th. He can get himself there and bear the costs the same way that the rest of us have to.

And he & Middo can pay for the legal advice associated with this resignation issue too, which they have both clearly caused to be incurred.

Plus members can rightly expect member Runciman to do the same for any other costs that he has incurred on RAA's behalf since the minute of his resignation.

"......say you a refugee, and we give you ruxury house on waterflont, Caderac, three little maids, and rife pension.""Hang on a minute Comrade" said Julia who only resigned six weeks before she became Plime Minister "We thought of that one first, although it was thought up by Comrade Rudd"

 

"HIM!" said Chairman Meow "He..............."

...... came to me when he won the part as Butters in Southpark. Can you see the rikeness berow? I taught him all he needed to know, incruding ...........

I have just spoken to someone in the CASA Sport Aviation Office and they have informed me that there was only one audit. The other "audits" were not audits but were follow ups on the first one to see if the non-conformances had been fixed. On the third follow up they decided that the lack of action to fix the non-conformances was enough to justify the removal of RA-Aus' authority to register aircraft.At no point has there been an "unprecedented" level of auditing. The audits are conducted the same as any other year and RA-Aus had plenty of notice. To state that this is unprecedented is misleading at best and down right deceptive at worst.

 

So who want's to help Gavin and others on the board keep misleading the membership?

Further, I understand that in the last or 2nd last audit, CASA just concentrated on what had been done by RAA over the preceding month ................ and they still failed, after CASA had previously given them specific details on what the issues were and what RAA had to do to set it right. No wonder the Exec won't release details on the Audit failures to the membership. After all it is just a "bit of pain".

The Technical Manager was responsible to the Executive and the Executive were responsible full stop. The Exec. can't now throw the Techman under the bus and wash their hands of these issues.

From the details & background that I know, and given that the members of the Executive have been on the Exec for years, if his comments relate to the audits, Gavin's Thobaven's statements to WA members appear to be very misleading, or an attempt to whitewash the issues. Neither is part of his charter as a Board Member.

But we'll see what he has to say on the big stage on Feb 9th to the membership at large.

Regards Geoff

"Ah Chinese in Kimono!" spat Chairman Meow "You want flight!""My name is Ah........"

... Choo, I don't need a flight as I am a pirot extraordiaire (and I often give myself a flight), as I have a SportStar and I am a rocksmiff."

"Ah, you must be a lich plick" said Chairman Meow "Do you want to buy some pussies, as I have a Catery where were have both Siamese and Burmese"

"How do you get them working visas?" asked AhChoo who was hoping that he could sclounge a job there too.

"No wollies about work permits, mate" lepried Meow "All you have to do is .............

"Just warm fuzzy glow. No happy ending for you BangitHolme man" spurned the kimano clad cashier. "and we got copylight for seclet facetube video so there!" scoffed.....

... Chairman Meow, who specilised in *&$$!. "We don't wear kimonos in China, Ahrox, you dipsh*t. Where do you think you are? Cowla?"

"Hey, stay cool maaan" said Christopher Columbus "Chill out dude, because we have just ............

...aloons."What are they?" asked Rocketscience

 

"The trousers I used to wear when I sailed with Christopher Columbus" [telling untruths is not allowed on this site, but I'll let it go a bit since you are my favourite moderator - Een] said Ahsocks

 

"I think I'll get some pantaloons too" said Turbo to Brine

 

"Can't, I've copyrighted that description" said Rocketscience

 

"So sue me" said Brine

 

"He can't" said Een because he broke my copyright so his copyright doesn't stand

 

"They're my pantaloons" said Christopher Columbus, courtesy of Just Landed, aka Tinhead "so Een doesn't have copyright so he can't claim the name.

 

"You didn't mention what they were called, and apart from that you only discovered one Caribbean island and thought it was New York" said Turbo

 

"Let's get MamaKas to adjudicate" said Quaver who had been "liking" every post.

 

MamaKas spat out the apple she'd been chewing on "These things are too slow anyway, I'll have to do it from memory.

 

"Poxy Loxy aka Ahsocks aka Een'smate used the word "pant"

 

"Turbo (you devil!) came up with aloons"

 

Therefore no one owns the rights to pantaloons.

 

So Ahsocks and Turbo formed a joint venture called Just Pantalloons and jumped a plane to China looking for a manufacturer, where they.........

...... tried to log into Rec Flying, but were brocked by the Chinese Government, so they missed the next post by Andythehatsh@er.

"That post # 7339 looks like a post from a Loon that hasn't been Pants'd for a while" Andy said, "But in China he is sure to walk past MamaSan's house of wholesome family massage and (breach Ahlot's copyright) before ................

"Curses & trumped again" said my Aunt out in the garden. "My pen in the garden doesn't work as quick as it should, and Ahlot the Harlot has used his Moderatti privileges to get inside me (figuratively and Forumwise speaking, of course)."

"I don't care if you do have a pistol" said Poxy Loxy "I will not allow you into my ............

..... pant.......

Actually Andy posted it Cap'n.But as a point of interest I actually received that email, it was forwarded to me direct, so there is no doubt as to its authenticity.

I believe they were obtained by contact with members as they are not available from RAAus.

If that is the case, and all of Gav's email list were willing members who had provided him with their email addresses, then no worries.

But that is not what the email says.

The email text in post #193 says QUOTE "I have attempted to send out a message to all WA members but I fear that my email server has let me down somewhat. As a result I am asking if you could forward this request to any RAA members with whom you have contact. UNQUOTE. (The bolded items are by me for emphasis).

If that is indeed the case & Gav really has a list of email addresses for all WA members, then the server is possibly the only item that has acted appropriately.

But can't you see a slight distortion when a General Meeting requisitioned by over 300 members, after a series of serious & proven management and governance failures, is described by a Board Member as "a bit of pain" and just a few stirrers with personal agendas. Misrepresentation comes to mind for me.

Regards Geoff

Furthermore, if the email in Andy's post #193 is fair-dinkum, based on the points that AR has outlined, being the incorrect nature of many of GT's statements to WA members, one can only conclude that any proxies that Gavin Thobaven brings to the Feb 9th meeting will have been obtained based on false representations.

And how did you obtain that list of member's email addresses, Gav?

I work in a professional Project Management organisation where the projects that are managed are generally unique and not rinse and repeat type of work (the projects, not the PM methodology) and the best GM's I know of have an uncanny ability to hone in on the things a Project Manager (PM) would prefer to remain under a rock while he tries to sort them out on his own.......The best GM's can seemingly have them out on the table and disected within about 10 minutes of questioning........ If we could get someone with that life experience then I believe that a lack of aviation experience will very quickly become inconsequential. We just have to allow the learning time to happen and not expect aviation inspired leadership within days of landing into the job.It would be a brave specialist (Opps/Tech) that tries to put one over on a new GM......Its not like the board are likely to set and forget....rather they might want a series of very regular briefings as the GM settles into the role. If they want to set and forget then we are doomed to failure.......

 

Andy

A couple of comments if I may please.

Re your paragraph 1, it will be dificult to employ the class of experienced and perceptive professional manager that you mention there for a little over $100 K unless that person agrees to partially donate their time and experience to help RAA. The type of person that you describe would do what RAA needs on their ear, compared with what goes on in Industry.

Re your paragraph 2, the problem I think is caused or exaserbated by Section 1.01 of the Operations Manual re Organisation and Administration ...... see text lines 5, 6 & 7 where the CEO/GM is responsible to the Executive ..... and see lines 15, 16 & 17 where the Technical Manager & Operations Manager are also responsible to the Executive. (I'll now try to attach a copy)

In my experience and opinion this is an unworkable system unless there might be complete goodwill amongst those 3 people, and with them all reporting to inexpert administrators and amateur politicians, (but some professional egomaniacs) on the Executive, full time goodwill between those 3 employees is an impossibility. It is fairyland for an organisation with the charter & the size of RAA, to have all levels of RAA Management reporting to a bunch of amatuer volunteers and with nobody in the Canberra Office actually in-charge of the running of all levels of Management/Employees. No decent competent CEO/GM is going to stick his or her head in that noose ..... and we have seen how well the present systems works now, based on the procession of Techmen over the years.

Regards Geoff

RAA Section-1.01-Organisation-and-Administration.pdf

RAA Section-1.01-Organisation-and-Administration.pdf

RAA Section-1.01-Organisation-and-Administration.pdf

...having a cr$......It had been a slow day with Tomo being fast asleep, even when he was driving, B12 being out of it, even though he was in it, Loxed out, and Brine still eating the last scraps of Christmas Dinner.

 

There was a tapping noise from the passageway, and who should walk in, carrying.

"I don't care if you do have a pistol" said Poxy Loxy "I will not allow you into my ............

......interplanetary explanation, before...

..... being a train spotter and having a Choo Choo Bar, and then deflowering Mavis (again) while eating a Cherry Ripe, or .....