turboplanner

47 minutes ago, facthunter said:

When I say "MOGAS" it's generic ie fuel sold  for motor vehicles with spark ignition. IN Brazil, Cropdusters were operated on 100% ethanol.  Nev

So, with OT's explanation are you going to stop using the US "Mogas"

2 hours ago, aro said:

Is there a product sold as Mogas anywhere? I've always heard it used in relation to aviation, i.e. it basically means not-avgas.

 

In the USA they have gas/gasoline for cars and avgas for aircraft by I'm not aware of actual "Mogas".

Mogas is sold in the USA.      

It doesn't mean anyting  not-avgas, it's a specific fuel.

Mogas is not sold in Australia.

Our refining for cars, trucks, tractors, stationary engines if different to the USA.

....flatly denied the story and claimed that NewZealand Whitebait only ate the cleanest food after it had been naturally cleansed by Lake Taupa bacteria. However a Camera Team from  "David Turbine's World" (c) showed the whitebait guzzling S ................

ovelled S..........

31 minutes ago, Moneybox said:

I had the bottom drop out just as we were approaching the end of the airstrip to land. I don't know the height we were at but it was too quick to react and we seemed to stop in ground effect at a nice level to land however we were still over the grass on the approach. My instructor hit the throttle and said go-around. We did but I thought what a waste of a good landing all I had to do was add a bit of throttle to reach the threshold 🙃

The guy in this video also has the wind shear in a very convenient position allowing him to convert to a landing but where the wind shear starts is random and I’d say your instructor took advantage to teach instant reaction and flying the aircraft out of trouble.

........UBob would have to pay to keep the rivers clean to protect the native whitebait.

This reduced UBob's profit to a small allowance per year.

Turbo flooded the NZ whitebait market with cheaper whitebait from the Mekong Delta, so Cappy's lease on all the rivers was burning him, and bull hired a bunch of ........

.......become the property of UBob.

Cappy, who had a nose for corruption more sensitive than a Bollodhound immediately smelled a rat. Well he didn't smell a rat, but he knew that soundrel mut have picked up in the pre-meetings of the NES Committee that there ws going to be a takeover of the NZ rivers.

He ...........

3 minutes ago, Captain said:

..... some bloke in Wangerai who called himself Arthus King, or King Arthur, or something, and it is a horizontally opposed 3 cylinder 2 stroke that Merlin had envisioned when he was high on the fumes of a potent potion (a PP).

 

With this engine the Pakeha Mk sux was sure to .....

.be good for spraying the quarter-acre paddocks of the land of the Long Weekend, although the screaming sound may eventually drive the Kaua Kaua birds extinct, and it has been said that when the last Kaua Kaua leaves the mountains ..........

........you could strap a couple of sheep on the wings and carry them over the ridges to better pastures. It took a but of time with  a mob of 3,000, but that was the way things were done in NZ.

It had a Merlin engine that Turbo had picked up from ..........

It's the next beach South of Mermaid Beach

Just found the perfect example of windshear on a light aircraft.

One of my CFIs was killed by windshear.

I've experienced it twice, on late final around 50 to 100 feet above ground level.

The first time, I didn't react, just sat there and the Instructor slammed the throttle wide open so we missed going into scrub.

The second time, the CFI yelled "FULL TROTTLE" but I'd reached the end of the throttle sector and we went up like a lift.

You dont need to know the theory of it; when you fall it's just WOT and THEN fly it.

I timed this one at about 3 seconds from the point where he would notice the drop to touch down

In my cases I hadn't reached the runway; I counted 1.5 seconds from the time he would notice the drop to the time WOT would have arrested the drop and he could climb out.

You can put your stop watches on it and feel how much time you have to react.

We've talked in the past about building some actions, like EFATO initial response into muscle memory, where the average person starts to move in about 50/100 of a second, people with full currency and active about 20 to 30/100, and some down to 15/100.  If it's not a built in response; if something happens out of the blue, the reaction time will be around 2 to 5 seconds or even longer if you are disbelieving of what's happening. 

This is a good one to concrete in your head. Remember, I had made countles approaches and landings, but the first time, I would have started to respond after I hit the ground.

Skua branch sharpened at one end by rotating it between 3 rocks known as a Taupa Crush.

The Taupa Crush is related to the Taupa Jaws where the heads of enemy warriors are rotated in this five-stone device and when the warrior has finally been pulled out of the Taupa Crush he has the flat ears and flattened nose and tattoos of beautiful symmetrical design from the Hauraki oyster juices poured int the design.

This makes the warriors suitable for living with the conquering tribe and they are then ........

8 minutes ago, Red said:

There is an aviation link as I described above, do you just come here to cause grief?

 

No; I was just trying to give you some help.

35 minutes ago, Red said:

It needs to be about aircraft? .....Sorry thread title makes no mention😁
🤪  

...and tbf there is an aviation link to these oddities

This is a Recreational Aviation site.

5 hours ago, Captain said:

.... the Casino for a 30-minute run on the pokies, then come back, sit down again outside the dunny in the hope of seeing a young Adam Bandt or a nubile Sarah H-Y, with the sun shining through their caftans, however Motion # 2 would still be being discussed for the want of finding a seconder who is financial, and not just be someone from a picnic who wanted to use the karzy.

 

The meetings .....

...before they made the trips to New Zealand were the most interesting, because the New Zealand Greens were mostly loggers who wanted all the logging profits for themselves and also were not tolerant of any moves to improve Diversity. In fact if you waved a rainbow lolipop at the wrong moment you'd be lifted up by the collar and nailed to one of the giant kaui kaui tree trunks,  and you weren't going to get a p break.

So the Tasmanians were very careful with their wordings and by the time the 1870s steam train climbed up the mountains for the .........

5 hours ago, Captain said:

.... one way trip, through Taupo and up the Mt Ruapehu volcano, where an automatic tripper dispatched the .....

.....ones silly enough to still be wearning scarves out the door and down 2,000 feet of scree, the remnants had almost perfected the New Zealand language, or at least understood it.

As the train rolled in to the mountain train siding..................

51 minutes ago, Moneybox said:

I'm not interested in getting into your personal spat nor am I qualified to do so.

 

Some time back I watched a very interested video on two Aussie guys who practice STOL in their bush planes. They land anywhere there is sufficient clearing in the bush, obviously not for the average LSA. They were both of the opinion that all pilots should be trained in low level flight so that if ever the occasion occurred they'd be less likely to panic and it may save lives.

That's a Short Field Landing in the PPL syllabus, for when whatever you've chosen doesn't have the rolling distance you want.

Just now, facthunter said:

II think that is not relevant to the Main Issue which is RAAus attitude to the LL training being done at all (except mustering)., Designated training areas exist for most school training.. Nev

 So another post, another rude No Quote.

I'll assume you were aiming your spleen at me. 

I'm not backward in being critical of RAA when it warrants it, but they don't have an "attitude" to LL.   That's an existiong regulation.

If you want to change it best read their Constitution to see what the process is to change regulations, and if you can get agreement and someone to put the motion up, why not do something.

7 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I'm the one who sticks to the subject. READ carefully what I stated above and then tell me it's not important. This IS an Important matter directly related to SAFETY and should not be deflected, as it usually has been. Most of Turbos assertions are very contestable and I HAVE direct experience of these matters  and involvement with RAAus.to draw on. Is this another subject where proper debate will be cut off by "Just play by the Rules and it will be fine" attitude?. Now don't $#!t me by saying YOU encourage people to break the rules. I'll answer for what I say and not what I get accused of saying as is often the CASE here, Unfortunately.. It should not have to be this hard. I'm only the messenger.  Nev

1. It's good manners to use the Quote link, just like I've done here. It's only a single click, then we know what you are referring to.

2. Just so you know LL regulation is not up for debate; just a few people clarifying it. You might be the messenger but that's all the more reason to refer to the Recreational Aviation Australia Rules and quote them.

10 minutes ago, facthunter said:

You are out of your depth turbs and just waffling. Not helpful to a proper consideration of this matter..  It's pure BS really what you just said. Denying someone training is more safe?? Many Instructors would never accept that. IT really defies LOGIC. I see  it as bordering on  criminal neglect and abrogation of responsibility.. Nev

Low level flying is clearly defined under Recreational Aviation Australia Ltd regulations; very clearly defined.

I realise you were talking about the Dreamtime in the past where, if something went wrong for the student practising what he was taught, CASA picked up the tab, and if necessary smacked the instructor on the knuckles.

We are no longer in that era.

15 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Well I'll let YOU into a little secret if you don't tell anyone. In such  sessions I taught low level as well but you can't put it in the book or file.. Nev

I think it's an anomally in RA, perhaps a mistaken carry over from the time they were only allowed to fly in paddocks at less than 300 feet. If you want to check stock etc, you can easily do it at 500 feet.

If you didn't charge the student for it, you still introduce risk that the student will go out the next day, mimic what he was shown and suddenly find himself face to face with a row of tall pine trees because he was focussed on the ground.

3 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

Raaus do teach outlanding and we get made to practise it quite a bit during training. 

Yes, correct, albeit its gliders that do Outlandings because while they are not going to get off again if they screw up, they can come in much higher and use the airbrake to quickly change the descent angle once they are sure of the landing zone, and they can glide at a much shallower angle, whereas a recreational aircraft by comparison has a lot more drag, and if you are too conservative you overshoot and don't have an air brake. When the engine fails in a powered aircraft it's called a Forced Landing to change your mindset to full alert. Around 15 years ago there were a lot of forced landing fatals due to RA pilots either pulling back on the stick thinking that would keep the aircraft flying or simply crashing in from a thousand feet to ground which was fine for forced landings. They also happen at the most inconvenient times. 

The terminology Low Level is different to Forced Landing. In Forced Landing you can do anything necessary to save yourself. In Low level you are going to deliberately fly the aircraft under 500' (which is illegal without a Rating and reason for the rating), so you are going to be taught about how you must turn, flying under wires, and a lot of other skills you aren't taught in Forced Landings. The risk is also much higher.

18 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Your logic is ODD. Turbo. If you are a 3 hours per year person you wouldn't have recency in anything. needing a flight test assessment before you got into a plane by yourself. Any bounced landing resulting in a decision to go around. (wise thing to do)  NEEDS low flying skills To do an outlanding you need low level skills to inspect where you intend to land. It's done in GA why not with RAAus where the need is arguably greater with 2 stroke or non certified motors.? They idea, don't train them or they will DO it defies logic.. Special skills taught the RIGHT way will acquaint the student with the risks involved. Nev

Well between Rodger's figures and mine we have 3 to 17 hours average; take yoour pick.

We all know about the academic who drowned in a creek of average depth 150 mm, so I wouldnt get hung up on that. There will be some people who haven't flown for 10 years while they were building their dream.

There's nothing wrong with talking about low level training, upset training, training under the hood. But you have to stay connected with cost for the pilot vs risk. If Pilots can't afford to fly you don't have a risk problem.

Similarly if you were to argue that the RA Instructors needed a new complex training programme, If instructors can't pay the cost then you won't have instructors.

10 minutes ago, rodgerc said:

That’s partially true….

 

Again using BITRE’s published survey results from 2021, once the hours flown by Gliders, Hang Gliders and Gyroplanes are deducted, the average annual hours flown by Ultralight (RA pilots) decreases to around 17h.

 

That still leaves Parachuting, where a lot of hours are racked up, Balloons, Warbirds and perthaps Powered Parachutes and Paragliders, but let's say its between 3 and 17, it's still averaging which I agree doesn't tell you much.

7 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

Parachuting, balloons, warbirds and gliding are all VH and would be in the VH sport and leisure section. You seem to lack some understanding of aircraft turbo.

I only posted the complete list of SAOs (Self Administering Organisations) a couple of days ago, so people would understand the CURRENT  structure of Aviation in Australia today.

Here is the lst of Sport Aviation Self-Administering Organisations again:

• Australian Parachute Federation
• Australian Sport Rotorcraft Association
• Australian Warbird Association Ltd
• Gliding Federation of Australia
• Recreational Aviation Australia Ltd
• Sports Aviation Federation of Australia

(Note: SAAA are not in the Self Administering Organisation group)

....deduced that Tasmanians would be extinct within 6.32 years.

In a post-thesis survey,

63.98% thought that would be a good idea, 35.02% asked whether this would affect gambling, and the other 1% wanted to save the emus.

As bull has discovered, Tasmanians are the most genuine people of all States; Turbo has attended some of those meetings, albeit out on the lawn. When Bob was king of Tasmania he was more popular than Jesus, but they had a signing woman outside the door who kept us up to date with the motions, votes, reports and fights, which was good if you could sign.

Most of the Lawn People as they became known would drift off to .................

35 minutes ago, rodgerc said:

I’d usually caution against quoting mean (average) numbers alone, as they can be misleading, but if we accept the federal government’s Bureau of Transport Research and Economics survey of annual hours flown by non-VH aircraft in 2022 and 2023 (353.1k hours and 333.6k hours, see reference below), then the average number of hours flown by RA-AUS’s ~10,000 members (“RA pilots”) is likely to be greater than 30. 

Well I agree with you about mean averages, but RA is only a small part of SAOs, so you'd have to deduct the hours from:

Parachuting

Sports Rotorcraft

Balloons

Powered Parachutes

Para Gliders

Warbirds

Gliding

3 hours ago, Red said:

You're kidding?, so what is the figure for whatever you class as a PPL holder then?

Over here the Microlight/Light Sports pilots fly a lot more than the full on GA pilots and I don't think any class as low as 3 hour PA, in fact you'd lose your rating with hours that low.

I haven't seen an annual figure average for a PPL, but in both RA and GA cost is the limiting factor.

For PPL, hire rates at Royal Victorian Aero Club are currently (per hour):

C152      $245.00

C172N   $280.00

C172SP $290.00

PA28 Warrior $285.00

PA28 Archer  $295.00

PA28 Arrow   $345.00

One of the best plans I've seen for staying current at the bare minimum annual cost, was a guy who did 30 minutes per week. He didn't fly on bad weather days and he took holidays.

So on current costs for a C152 that would be:

40 weeks x 0.5 hrs = 20 hrs/yr x $245.00 = $4,900.00/year 

That was in one of the busiest circuits in the country, so he was always on his toes and up with his pre-flight, pre-takeoff, circuits, downwind checks, landings etc.

RA rates for RPC

Jabiru J170    $110.00, $174.00, $220.00

Jabiru J230   $207.00