turboplanner

Around half is lost in evaporation in the lower lakes which are an artificially fresh, supports leisure activities and a relatively small amount of farming

 

This is about to come to and end. Broken Hill's growth meant a more reliable waster supply was needed so NSW has built a pipeline direct from Broken Hill to Wentworth, so it can pick up both Darling water and take advantage of the Murray backflow if the Darling dries out. This will allow two, I think, of the Mendindee lakes, the highest evaporating ones where the MDBA have had to get water out of them or lose it, can now be closed down, for a good boost in water.

The States all get an agreed amount of water allocations, and they in turn share their allocation out through water licences. SA simply called up their allocation and some politics started.

The UK was the first county in the world to have a Nuclear energy policy & the first Nuclear power station was opened at Calder Hall in 1956. At its peak in 1997 Nuclear provided 26% of the UKs energy needs falling to 19% by 2012 & now to 18% about the same as wind with most Coal plants closed. In May they ran for 2 weeks with no coal power & coal now produces only 5% of their electricity, down from 40% in 2012 & is to be phased out altogether by 2025. A number of old nuclear plants have closed & the plans for new plants may not happen as renewables come on stream in a fraction of the time and cost with no waste disposal problems. In 2018 wind & solar accounted for 28% of the countries electricity generation. Gas which accounts for about 40% will also decline. On 14 May 2019 the UK produced 25% of its electricity needs from the sun.

 

This is what can be done when there are aggressive targets and supportive government in a country a twentieth the size of Australia with 60 million people.

 

These figures add up to more than 100%, but are still a good base for making a comparison with the cost of power to the consumer and amount of emissions between the UK and Australia.

There are some variables that need to be factored in for Australia like:

Much hotter climate, particularly across Nth Qld to WA, with a lot more power demand for AC

Longer hot season where temperature may go above 35 degrees

Much bigger transmission distance with Australia's Power Generator locations, so a huge amount of generated power lost just powering the grid.

It's not clear what those UK percentages are, and how close they get to meeting Peak Power demand for all hot days, but after having decades of near perfect performance (for Victoria at least) we are hovering on having blackout days like we did in the 60s, hence the importance of Peak POwer capacity.

At 5.30 yesterday afternoon, on the AEMO dashboard we (except for WA) were working to these figures

Power Demand: 26075 Megawatts

Wind/Solar Supply: 1910 Megawatts

So wind Solar: 7.3%

These are hard, provable figures

Unfortunately, I was silly enough on January 28 this year not to take a screen grab of the Dashboard figures of the Peak Power Demand at that time

So I've extrapolated these figures from memory (This is just for an example; if anyone wants to demand empirical figures, you have your links to the dashboard for the coming summer to do your own research)

Peak Power Demand: 396,500 MW

Wind/Solar Supply: 3965 MW

So Wind/Solar: 1%

That was Australia's (less WA's) electricty generation performance on a very hot day this year.

Two major coal-fired generators were out of action and they will eventually come on line to give us a buffer

In terms of Bushfire issues, because multiple fatal fires have been caused by failures in the grid infrastructure the grid itself should come under scrutiny, and that changes the whole equation of power generation. the optimum for country Australia would be power generated at the homesteads and sheds - no grid.

Turbs my post is in the vein of many other posts including your own but If my  post is more offesive or off topic than any other then I am happy for a modertor  to delete it. I always try to keep my posts respectful and to the point. If the majority  of posters feel my post  are over the top please let me know an will cease posting   I have no wish to offend. 

 

No one said you did, but there's a climate change thread on What's up, which you well know. Unfortunately, even though we only needed some very basic understanding of how global warming will effect fires and fire fighting if it's true, and how it will affect it them if it's not true, because we have to buy and lease equipment to cover both possibilities, we're getting this constant questioning and assertions that fit in better on the What's Up threadand would have long term benefit there for those interested in Climate change which is a huge subject in itself.

 

And hay prices does?

 

There's been a determined effort to obfuscate, and it might die out or it might not.

Growing fodder with desal at least feeds something but is a short term high expense stop gap of a very political nature.

 

It is a very dumb way to get feed for stock  and definately a case of government picking winners- those who get to grow with the water will get windfall profits I expect. This is costing hundreds of millions of public money.

 

Right now a section of Western Queensland, Western NSW, Central+Western Victoria and part of SA is in drought. Farmers from the areas with normal weather have jacked up hay prices. Under those market conditions fodder grown by desal water may well be profitable.

Just on ozone depletion, it did not go  away by itself we took action and restricted the chemicals that were  causing the damage.. Google it.  I am extremely concered about climate change but strongly against shaming.  I still fly a plane but do what i can. I am not a catastrophist but the one certain thing is that we will move past the fossil fuel era one way or another. Why not have determined  but but orderly transition. The stone age did not end because they ran out rocks they moved on because smart progressive people were determined  to move ahead. Certainly there were missteps along the way, this is the way societies  or  individuals flourish and progress. 

 

Consider the change that has occured over just the last 30 years and extrapolate 30 years into the future. Will we still be burning black rocks to power our society? Is this the pinnacle  of technological development? I think not. The early car was probably  much  more expensve and less reliable than the horse but smart people could see the potential and governments built highways.  

 

I have recenttly gone into semiretirement and as a bit a hobby I have started investing on the stock market.  Some  advice I was given was to invest in companies that reflected  my vision for society. I believe  this is good advice. My suggestion is if you believe  coal is the only way then invest your money in it.  If you are pro nuclear then do something in order  to further it (I am not totally antinuke. If you think electric vehicles are silly then invest in a car company that does not or will not go EV (although good luck finding one) I guess what I am saying is perhaps  indstead whinning do something positive towards the world you want to see wether that be progressive or back to thd 50s.

 

End of rant (maybe)

 

This has no bearing on the bushfires, it belongs on What's Up.

If I were to put Solar on my roof, It would take 10 years to pay it off. Life of said panel guaranteed 10 year.

 

Then dispose of the old & buy new.

 

NOT very economical, or have I missed something ?.

 

spacesailor

 

If I were to put Solar on my roof, It would take 10 years to pay it off. Life of said panel guaranteed 10 year.

 

Then dispose of the old & buy new.

 

NOT very economical, or have I missed something ?.

 

spacesailor

 

No you're pretty much on the money.

Victorian Premier, Daniel Andrews wants solar on every roof in Victoria, and that's a great idea, but the pricing is so ridiculous that no one including the government can achieve it, the designs being installed vary from good to unworkable, the installation quality the same, plus some operators are just ripping people off, the price for selling back to the griod is a fraction of what the power companies normally pay, in short, Pink Batts on steroids.

Could be fixed with a concerted effort

Grazing animals on the roadside is a PITA for motorists and especially trucks. My roadtrain used to burn an extra 1.5 litres every time I had to slow to 10kph and get back up to speed. Bad drovers have been known to leave a few black cows out at night, they are almost impossible to see, hit one in a car or 4x4 and it can be all over.

 

Just think if you had a Cummins 210!

......my bill....

......and then she did it again and again like a bacon slicer. “That must have hurt” Turbo sympathized.

”Not really” replied Turbo......

.....when he was a teenager and tried to save Sally Copeland from drowning; Jesus those fingernails hurt! Sally went on the serve as an SAS soldier in Afghanistan. Many a FIFO terrorist had her in his sights but thought she looked like a Virgin (no one in Kaniva would have made that mistake) but when they got up close she squirrel-gripped them into submission then broke their necks with her bare hands. One day....

......inserting Irish Jokes on slips of paper in the Hymn  books. The embarrassment reminded him of the day the Turbos went to the beach. There was a mass evacuation and Turbo’s wife said “I TOLD you we shouldn’t have called him “Shark!”, but

An the fire retardant doesn't? A small amount of salt water wont do any lasting damage.

 

Five years ago ago I sat and watched as the fire front ran along the overgrown roadside vegetation. It was a long time before the paddocks burned. This was also the case in the Wangary fires a decade earlier when the fire ran at upto 60km/hr. I South Australian CFS stats show that about 50% of fires start on roadsides. Thus it follows that many fires could be prevented by simply management of the roadsides. It used to happen but the we had a green revolution.

 

But with a month of media beating up  the drought, fires, first in the US then on the east coast, the climate extinction people, 11,000 scientists (of which only about 240 hold qualifications in anything remotely climate related) saying we are all doomed it is little wonder the crazies are out in force lighting fires.

 

End of this rant

 

Bev McArthur Upper House Member For Western Victoria has been letting fly in the Parliament

about roadsides; in particular how drought affected farmers were prevented from grazing roadsides and the heavy growth we have to deal with this summer. If you search for her on FB you’ll see what she’s been saying and she’s not finished yet.

“......get your head down here fast!”

”What for?” Asked Bull who was from Central North Queensland.

” Pray!” yelled the Captain and Bull dropped and loudly started to say “Deat God, we beseech thee to  send down a pestilence of fleas to these....”, and a combination of rumblings combined with laughter broke out among the other worshippers which Turbo can only describe as similar to the night he took a possum in a bag in to the evening service at the Kamba All Saints Church and let it out midway through the sermon......

That is NOT the main point of the battery. It is used to stabilise the network as was well explained by the New LIBERAL leader of SA. Claimed saving of the current battery 47million and the new extra one will provide a similar benefit, proportionately. There are also about 3 other battery systems in SA. . Morrissons exceptionally stupid/frivolous comment s about it  shows factless political opportunism. Tesla said If it doesn't work, You don't have to pay for it. Now they are installing more having   proven first hand that it does. Perhaps others now might give some thought to doing the same.  Nev

 

The Prime Minister is quoted by a Renew Economy Journalist (Cessna) as saying:

"I mean by all means have the world's biggest battery, have the world's biggest banana, have the world's biggest prawn like we have on the roadside around the country, but that is not solving the problem."

[the problem being we no longer have enough power GENERATION to prevent blackouts.

Explanation to anyone who thinks these were stupid/frivolous comments showing factless political opportunity: A battery is NOT A GENERATOR]

So a kangaroo or two loose in the top paddock.

The journalist went on to explain that a lightning strike knocked out two transmission lines, cutting power in NSW and Victoria, but SA operated with power supplied by the Big Battery until "its local grid was 'synchronised' with Victoria's ABOUT 25 MINUTES AFTER THE OUTAGE."

So far so good; if the outage had exceeded an hour it might have been another story, so a short window of support.

SA claim $40 million savings in the first year, Facthunter claims a handy boost to $47 million, neither refer to any cost.

The Journalist who appears to have impressed some of our posters went on to say "Morrison's Big Banana  wasn't able to lift a finger to help customers in NSW."

and (referring to the Big Battery)

"It can do things that cannot be matched by coal, gas or hydro generators, or even Big Bananas."

https://www.afr.com/politics/scott-morrison-mocks-sas-big-battery-as-like-the-big-banana-20170727-gxjqbz

 

fades into nothing

That is NOT the main point of the battery. It is used to stabilise the network as was well explained by the New LIBERAL leader of SA. Claimed saving of the current battery 47million and the new extra one will provide a similar benefit, proportionately. There are also about 3 other battery systems in SA. . Morrissons exceptionally stupid/frivolous comment s about it  shows factless political opportunism. Tesla said If it doesn't work, You don't have to pay for it. Now they are installing more having   proven first hand that it does. Perhaps others now might give some thought to doing the same.  Nev

 

What exeptionally stupid/frivolous comments about the battery did Morrissons make?

See if we ever needed proof, the evil  Thatcher had a small conscience and respect for facts, it is there.

 

Come on fellas if she can do it, anyone can.

 

Or at least see the oncoming bus blinking its lights, slamming its horns and get out of the bloody way.

 

 Even John Howard could do that.

 

I think you've got your eagles and turkeys mixed up.

...........I became even more concerned when I realised they were jabbering in Afrikaans, but then....

......realised they had bypassed the HACCP requirement in processing and cooking their food, and could have some very nasty diseases including the plague and did a U Turn only to be run over and killed by a dump truck. This, NES readers shows how short life can be, ending when you least expect it.

Turbo had been busy for the last couple of days engaging with a group of First Nations people in the Pilbara. He had been sent there by the Prime Minister to discuss their land claim for, well, the whole of the Pilbara area and had written to tell the PM that the land was only being used at present by a few white squatters.......

[First Nations Art]

This is what can be done when there are aggressive targets and supportive government in a country a twentieth the size of Australia with 60 million people.

 

.....and no hot Australian summers.

 

"1% of Australia's Peak power" is just cherry-picking facts. The important fact is that renewable energy production in total, produces 35% of Australia's power requirements during the daytime.

 

The missing factor is simply a storage method. S.A. has overcome that problem with the Neoen/Tesla battery, but there is still a need for the missing storage ability to be built.

 

Look up Sun Cable and see what the potential is, for our vast amount of harvestable "free" solar energy.

 

I should have said 1% of Australia's (less WA) Peak Power, but otherwise there is no cherry picking of facts in what I said.

Right now we're not at Peak Power demand on the East Coast grid, but these were the total figures as at 17:30 this afternoon.

Total Demand: 26075 MW, Wind/Solar 1910 MW wind/solar % = 7.3%     Nowhere near the 35% you quoted and we are nowhere near peak demand.

Have you checked the link I provided?

A quick check tells me that there are 10,551 megawatts of renewable energy projects currently under construction creating 12,240 jobs & in 2018 generation capacity quadrupled from 382 mW to 1824 mW. There are also more than 2 million houses with rooftop solar. This is exponential growth and as it shows no signs of slowing the demand noted above of 21,000 mW will be surpassed relatively soon. Storage is an issue but that's where pumped hydro (& batteries) come in when there is an excess of supply to be used when the wind stops & it gets dark. Peak demand on a hot day means we are still a long way from covering that. The ANU study also stated that Australia could be 100% renewable by 2023 but the government as we know has done next to nothing. Private Industry and individuals are driving the renewables process. 

 

The beauty of what I posted is that we'll be able to see the actual outputs as the demand comes on and see it live. We don't have to rely on someone's assertions.

After renewables 30 years of subsidy and achieving just 1% of Australia's Peak power, I don't know how you could post the ANU BS with a straight face.

Which government has done next to nothing? The States are responsible for their power grids with the exception of any arrangements they make with the Commonwealth government.

Building a nationalised nuclear grid would take at least 30 years minimum and that assumes we could get the money.

 

Nuclear has a role if you have already built and own it. We have not. Even UK are finding they can't build one economically. They have ample experience.

 

Assuming we could build it- we do not have the water to either cool them nor for the steam to power conversion.

 

Steam turbines use huge amounts of water that must be fresh.

 

Or should we build nuclear to run the desal plants needed to provide water to run nuclear. A losers game for a dry country.

 

How is helping sheep farmers going to solve it? I will help them as its my heritage since 1832. But a fibre industry that uses mass water and chemical for low jobs and inedible produce like cotton should be discouraged. As a matter of industry policy.

 

Wind farms do conduct like others, they pay big income to farmers who still get their land to use. Or did you mean the most subsidised industry like mining and coal power, who get govt money, trash the joint, suck up all the water and leave a big hole in the ground and economy?

 

Well that's it Skippy, we've been knocked out by the scientists.

Turboplanner - An excellent well reasoned argument - I compliment you.

 

I would ask however - what might the solution(s) be?

 

I do believe in rapid climate change & the pollution/destruction of our environment.

 

Something(s) must be done and now!

 

For your rapid climate change belief.

• Cut the subsidies to the Wind Farms
   
  
• Subsidise the wool growers  who lose rentals, restructure industry
   
  
• Build a Nationalised Nuclear Plant
   
  

Result

• No bloodsuckers on our taxes
   
  
• Wind Farms can conduct business like anyone else, or leave.
   
  
• Enough Power Generation to get back our reliable all year service, No emissions (just in case you're right), cheapest power to pull down Privateer prices.