turboplanner

In principle, you are right. CAR Reg 224 states literally everything you are saying.

 

However what happens in practice? Have a look at literally every ATSB report on incidents like this. What does the final conclusion typically say?

 

"Pilot Error" "Pilot flew into worsening conditions" "Operating Error" "Over weight"

 

CAR Reg 224 is a double edged sword. It can be used as cause for a pilot to cancel a flight. But also is the exact regulation the ATSB, CASA and business points at when a pilot makes a mistake. You cant have it both ways. Either the law protects the pilot to make command decisions or the law is used against them when they make an error. There is no follow up law. There is no protection as an employed pilot if you enact Reg 224 due to operational concerns.

 

CAR Reg 224 is the final rung on the ladder. It literally is, and more times than not in aviation that is where the blame is pushed down to. Either unwittingly or intentionally.

Chain of Responsibility is NOTHING LIKE CAR 224.

CAR 224 makes the PIC "Responsible for......." and gives the PIC "Final Responsibility...."

CoR goes after the OTHER people in the management chain who put the pressure on the driver.

Two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT approaches.

........the Shroud of Onetrack is held in a bulletproof glass case.

Not may people know that Onetrack was a Methodist Preacher, and roamed the state of WA in a black 53 Customline with "Jesus Gives" painted pon the side. The cold hard fact is that Jesus never gave while OT was around, OT is never recorded as shouting in any pub, so he and his sermons were not looked forward to.

One night in Kununurra a few of the boys decided to play a practical joke, set up a rear projection screen semi hidden by bushed and lured him out of the pub for a drink in the beer garden. and then played a vidoe of a herd of cattle stampeding towards him OT went over backwards, got tangled up in his stubbie which hit a rock and was found to be bleeding at a great rate. A few minutes later his breathing stopped and the boys pronounced him dead.

The next morning, amrned with shovels a party arrived to bury him in the beer garden, but all they found was his bloodstained preacher's robe, and a note saying "I have rissen, your frend Onetrack, I will be baack!"

How the robe got to the Moorabbin Council Chambers and what happened to OT is another story, but......

I don’t think that you understand that there is a disconnect there....

It’s the legislation which requires them to have their management processes. The employees get to sign that they all familiar with policy and they been clearly instructed so that when the excrement hits the fan they have all their records as required, but that doesn’t mean that’s how they actually do business.

Any audit gets to see all the right stuff and staff have to answer all the questions right whether or not that’s the reality.

I realise you get a kick out of tagging on to just about everything I post, but people don’t need to be misled. The legislation I’m talking about is Chain of Responsibility legislation which applies in the Transport Industry only. It applies punitive measures to managers and owners who force drivers to break laws.

I guess we should read this site's Events with the pandemic in mind; even small gatherings may be affected.

Our club had a good-sized monthly BBQ last Saturday, and handshaking was noticeably absent.

Get a Channel9, Channel 7 app on your phone and get the live press conference from the National Cabinet each day.

Things are changing almost daily now.

Hence the employment of so called "Contractors" which really are just employees. If blame and liability can be shifted to the last link, to the one actually doing the service or work then the higher ups don't have to deal with it.

As I said if pilots went to ANY authority with complaints, they would not be pilots anymore, once word is out they would not be employed anywhere. It's reached that level.

The industry can end this by getting Chain of Responsibility enacted.

With that in place, the action starts with an incident, not a complaint by a pilot. In most cases he would be prosecuted for making the decision, but so would every member of the chain involved, including the officers and management of any customers who insisted on conditions causing unsafe conduct.

It would be very simple to use the existing CoR in each State as the basis.

They all have their Safety Management System, Quality Systems, Training System etc, etc, and all these things make it quite clear that management will do what they have to , but the buck stops at the guy at the bottom who made the decision.

During all the "training" about company policy and such they all get told the company will support them if decisions are made for safety reasons, the reality is a lot more blurry.

I think you're a bit confused here; it clearly referred to State and Territory LEGISLATION which is external to whatever systems companies may have.

There is no room to move for company members from direct employees to the management chain to directors.

Several are incarcerated right now; no one is exempt.

The buck no longer stops with the last person in the chain, and hasn't for about 10 - 15 years.

That's not CASA's role, would never happen in the real world of commercial business!

No, it’s not CASA’s role it is State and Territory role, and the Chain of Responsibility legislation applied to a charter where the pilot committed to a landing because he would be sacked if he didn’t and someone was killed would see the Manager, and the owner of the business doing prison time along with the pilot. Mobil was not a good example because they are doing regular scheduled deliveries. The problem in the transport industry was large Companies offering business to sub contractors on an impossible basis, just like the charters we are talking about. The reason the legislation hasn’t entered the aviation industry is almost certainly because pilots don’t know about it and don’t realise they need to go to State and Territory governments.

Some of you blokes don't fly for a living then?

No, that’s true, but I work in the transport industry where gutless individuals can kill people both on the road and in setting specifications because of management pressure.I have never lost an order by explaining that a truck was going to cost $4000 more to make it dynamically stable.

What governments have introduced to the transport industry is Chain of Responsibility legislation where everyone in the management chain can be charged for a driving or loading offence and that has helped.

I have this argument every day.

Drivers complaining about being forced to do stuff they are not comfortable with.

My answer is always the same, just don't do it.

There are no buts or what ifs, if it is not legal or not safe do not do it.

If enough people stand up for what is right we all win.

And before anyone says it is easier said than done, it is easy to do.

I have lost so many customers because I refused to run overweight or over hours etc, but the customers that I keep are bloody good ones.

 

I have what I call the Grandfather test, when I do something with a truck or any vehicle, I ask myself this question,

"Would I drive this down the street where my Daughter is dropping my Grandkids at school?"

If the answer is no then it simply does not move.

Yes, it really is that simple.

Easier just to tip them a little bit and slide a brick under with your foot

That's the way farmers have done it for a century or more.

Bungs at 90 degrees to the brick or 4x2 and the drum is self draining.

Bung Pump pickup pipes normally don't go the full depth, so they leave a safe margin above any collected water.

I once was refueled from a 44 gallon drum where the refueler put the pump right to the bottom of the drum. The result was over a litre of water being pumped into my tank. On doing a fuel check straight after the refuel, it became obvious that I had water in the tank. I drained out about 20 L of fuel/water and demanded a top-up at no expense.

Yes, that can be the reality, as is storm ingress, and the reason we do a fuel/water check after every refuel and before each day's use.

I went to an Airservices presentation once.....The RAAF guys were good and easygoing, the Airservices guy though seem to believe that he owned the sky. He told us of an event where someone was close to airspace, but not in it then used the excuse that it tied up three controllers because they were all worried the aircraft might penetrate. I would like to believe our controllers are more professional than his story.....someone please tell me they are smarter than that.

They are, but then you have things like the Avalon Airshow making a pause while a Cessna 172 flew straight over the spectators on his way to who knows where. If you check the annual incursions you can see why they're sitting on razor blade, but at a meeting like that they're probably preaching to the innocent.

"............step over and stand on his toe. At the Gumly Gumly RSL we have a Captain's corner where we send him every time he makes a pass. In that corner he's available for any of us, but I've never seen any of the female members take up the "prize" except......

..........cut just a little bit of my tax costs. Us business people are hurting now, and if we all want to bounce back to the point where we aren't going through 30 toilet rolls a day, we need a financial.......

Or the Windows Flag plus Print Screen key will save the whole window in \pictures\screenshots.

The proposed 760kg category detail about medical requirements have not been made clear. Perhaps casa will require a commercial drivers licence medical. The category allows some higher performance a/c in such as Vans RV 3,4,6, etc. that can land at low speed. Your thoughts?

The Consultation phase ended some months ago, so it doesn't matter what you think, we now need to wait for the decision.

So, this disease is not communicable, yeah? Or is the PM immaculate. Look up *Leader* in the dictionary.

You don't need to do any of that; just look at the full cabinet press conference; the information is there.

The answer to this thread is also now very clear; No.

Meanwhile, Prime Minister refuses test following news that his cabinet colleague Dutton has tested positive for coronavirus. How irresponsible!

Catch up with the current protocol for testing.

I luv flying close/ parallel, to a boundary, I can almost feel the controller staring hard at his scope one finger poised on the R/T trigger??

We were on a visit to Tullamarine Tower one night and a guy called overhead Eildon Reservoir. The ATC guy grinnned and said “Here he is 100 Nm west of it.

National Cabinet of Prime Minister and State Premiers formed today, will meet weekly, so things will clarify faster from now on.

........the downtrodden masses. So they asked for more Centrelink money and received................

.....Julius Caesar with six knives in his guts yelling Et Yu Brutus and his yoga shot off. That......

.....calculate complex equations (the palm took over from the previous computers the size of a large room, but proved to be too much of a handful, so the world got laptops instead), but Turbo was urged not to stand by his minders who painted a picture of Turbo, who had been driving around supermarkets looking for a roll of toilet paper and had been busting for two days, making a speech and having an accident on National Television.

The great toilet roll shortage had begun to ease, but it was advisable to carry a roll with you at all times. Just Jeans had just released an Ad for Jeans with a pocket big enough for a toilet roll with the catch-line "Rear Men Carry their Own!" and stores were beginning to run out of jeans. People were fighting at the counters. One bank robber, wearing a pair of these new jeans was brought to justice when police shot him in the toilet roll.

Meanwhile the Espy at St Kilda was giving away free shots of BullXXX with every drink. The place was full of Millenials wearing their new Just Jeans, and over the road at the St Kilda Tea Rooms the sandwich board outside announced free BullXXXX bowls so you could add a spoonfull to your tea for a sweeter experience.

Up the street Superchip were selling BullXXX modules which extended fuel economy and gave more power when fitted to Hyundais.

And everyone was so engrossed in all this that they forgot to vote.

"Who's the PM then?" asked OT, always fretting about the last little detail.

"I couldn't give a .........."

".......the same old two party system" but there had been a change overnight when Clive Palmer registered the BullXXX Party, and 18 million people hit social media to say they'd be voting for it. That was closely followed by mass defections from Liberal and Labor parties, leaving only the most extreme Cabinet members staying with Scomo, and Albo standing out the from of PH Canberra alone. This left no doubt about the result of the next election, and there are rumours that at 12:00 today Scomo will anounce that he doesn't have the numbers to govern, and couldn't win an election, and Albo will follow him with the same story, and Clive will be the new Prime Minister.

The Australian People, up to their waists in BullXXXX.......

......much better than the smell from the Wagga Wagga saleyards which wafted through the Latte precinct each morning so the locals decided they didn’t want to........