RA-AUS Cross country endorsement

[BrendAn]

5 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Unlikely as It's the FIRST  and MOST Important thing they are taught to do. Also don't rely on JUST ONE instrument. Nev

[facthunter]

You are talking to a Person with thousands of Hours of Instrument flying who  has  100's of Instrument Flying checks. I have NEVER lost Control of an aeroplane in VMC OR IMC  conditions  and  have has also taught Instrument flying . Just what are you trying to do here?  You have consistently chucked Muck at Me and I've Had enough of it. Nev

[turboplanner]

2 hours ago, PureCaboose said:

Interesting flight route, as oppposed to runinng the magenta line?

 

Well you wouldn't go round every bend with the road or you'd be travelling twice the flying distance and if you followed inland rivers, you'd be travelling three times the distance of your flight.

 

And with both rivers and roads you know there's cross highway a couple of hundred Nm north with your town on it, Navigation teaches you the tricks of how not to turn the wrong way, because after a couple of hundred nm with winds you're moving one way or the other away from your town.

 

Also, I notice quite often with RA events several 60 kt aircraft turn back because they run low on fuel. You can use the Nav Computer for other options to lower fuel consumption per Nm.

 

Once again I notice no RA Instructors offering to help. If you can't find one it's worth doing the PPL module with a group of GA people.

[danny_galaga]

So I think I'm going to go with the pilot exams subscription, but I'll wait until I come back from holidays as the clock will be ticking. But I might get the Dyson manual as well. Together that's the cost of only 30 minutes instruction 

[BrendAn]

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

You are talking to a Person with thousands of Hours of Instrument flying who  has  100's of Instrument Flying checks. I have NEVER lost Control of an aeroplane in VMC OR IMC  conditions  and  have has also taught Instrument flying . Just what are you trying to do here?  You have consistently chucked Muck at Me and I've Had enough of it. Nev

You told me this problem does not exist when it is. Clearly documented and talked about a lot.  I am not having a go at you. I was trying to show you what I was talking about 

Edited April 11 by BrendAn

[facthunter]

I did NOT tell you the problem does not exist, You Twist what I say. and Probably don't even read it carefully. either. If something's unclear you only have to ask. Nev

[JMLIS]

Following some roads or rail lines  below a low cloud base can be problematic when they disappear into a tunnel! No personal experience, but have heard of such events back in the sixties.

[facthunter]

Called "scud running" and was never safe  Nev.

[BurnieM]

Best quote I have heard;

"if you are not sure if it is safe then it is not safe"

 

[facthunter]

If you haven't checked what is supposed to be checked you are not doing your Job Properly. I'd go with that one.  Nev

[red750]

Regarding the spacial disorientation thing, has anyone experienced this?

 

You are laying on a hospital gurney being pushed down a corridor, say, to the Xray. The room is busy when you get where, so they park the gurney in the corridor and lock the wheels. You close your eyes and you feel like you are still moving. Open your eyes and look at the ceiling to confirm you are stationary. The same feeling occurs when you are rolling in and out of a CT scanner.

[facthunter]

Spatial.  I wouldn't know what is causing those sensations you tell of. The aeroplane related experiences are from turns and acceleration. Nev

[red750]

You can get similar sensations sitting on a swivel chair. Have someone turn you around with your eyes closed. When the chair stops turning, your senses still feel like you are turning.

[facthunter]

 Now you are talking about something different. Turns with your eyes  CLOSED.    Nev

[red750]

Faulty instruments can get you lost. I was on my naxex 5, a solo flight Moorabbin, Mangalore, Swan Hill, Horsham, Moorabbin. On the Mangalore Swan Hill leg, turbulence was pretty severe. The ball-in-liquid compass was bouncing around like a cork in  a washing machine. So I was navigating using the directional gyro. One of my checkpoints was Pyramid Hill, photo below. It should have appeared a few miles off my port wingtip,

When I arrived at the appropriate time, it was nowhere to be seen. Scanning the horizon, I spotted it well off my starboard wingtip. 

 

I worked out that the gyro had been precessing leading me on a curved path. I located the Loddon River and Loddon Valley Highway  running close together. The highway ran straight into Swan Hill where I was due to land for lunch. I turned and followed the highway, and calculated my amended arrival time and notified ATC. On the third and fourth legs I had to do the best I could with a dancing compass. I lodged a fault report with the flying school on my return. I got my unrestricted licence.

 

[facthunter]

You are Meant to visually make sure your track takes you over Points ahead of you. When there's nothing like that available you only have the compass of course but that's open  water or desert. Where was your WAC chart? Gyro instruments always Precess . Today there's google earth to Plan with. Makes it Like you've been there before especially useful Near the destination. aerodrome for circuit Orientation. Nev

[danny_galaga]

2 hours ago, red750 said:

Faulty instruments can get you lost. I was on my naxex 5, a solo flight Moorabbin, Mangalore, Swan Hill, Horsham, Moorabbin. On the Mangalore Swan Hill leg, turbulence was pretty severe. The ball-in-liquid compass was bouncing around like a cork in  a washing machine. So I was navigating using the directional gyro. One of my checkpoints was Pyramid Hill, photo below. It should have appeared a few miles off my port wingtip,

When I arrived at the appropriate time, it was nowhere to be seen. Scanning the horizon, I spotted it well off my starboard wingtip. 

 

I worked out that the gyro had been precessing leading me on a curved path. I located the Loddon River and Loddon Valley Highway  running close together. The highway ran straight into Swan Hill where I was due to land for lunch. I turned and followed the highway, and calculated my amended arrival time and notified ATC. On the third and fourth legs I had to do the best I could with a dancing compass. I lodged a fault report with the flying school on my return. I got my unrestricted licence.

 

Aren't you suposed to calibrate the gyro against your compass every 15 minutes? I vaguely remember learning that when i started doing navs in the 90's. 

[red750]

When the ball is dancing like a cat on hot bricks, it's hard to calibrate anything to it.

 

 

 

(Edit)  I had to wait till I landed at Swan Hill and had my lunch before  I could recalibrate. Knowing what was going on helped on the last two legs of the trip.

 

 

 

[danny_galaga]

1 hour ago, red750 said:

When the ball is dancing like a cat on hot bricks, it's hard to calibrate anything to it.

 

 

 

(Edit)  I had to wait till I landed at Swan Hill and had my lunch before  I could recalibrate. Knowing what was going on helped on the last two legs of the trip.

 

 

 

But it's a gyro. It will constantly precess. How have you kept it accurate in the past?

[red750]

I don't recall. It's been over 40 years since I last flew. That incident would have been about 53 years ago.

[turboplanner]

7 hours ago, danny_galaga said:

But it's a gyro. It will constantly precess. How have you kept it accurate in the past?

He did say it was a very rough flight. Under those circumstalces the magnetic compass would be bouncing all over the place so impossible to get a magnetic reading. He was on Navex 5 which means he was training for  his Nav endorsement. In theory under those circumstances you could wing it with an estimate change on the DG............if you'd been noting the average adjustment, but realistically I would have done the same.

[facthunter]

You average the oscillations of the Magnetic compass .The fluid in it damps the Movement . It's caused by Magnetic lines of force DIP and covered in "Turning and acceleration errors" theory. Maybe your instruction had a few Holes in it. ?  Nev

[danny_galaga]

6 hours ago, turboplanner said:

He did say it was a very rough flight. Under those circumstalces the magnetic compass would be bouncing all over the place so impossible to get a magnetic reading. He was on Navex 5 which means he was training for  his Nav endorsement. In theory under those circumstances you could wing it with an estimate change on the DG............if you'd been noting the average adjustment, but realistically I would have done the same.

Fair point. I may find myself in a similar situation later this year I guess. No gyro though, so will have to really concentrate on that compass 🧭 

[facthunter]

Magnetic compasses never go around and around except in B grade Movies..  If turbulence is so Bad why Be in the Air or Look for a better level? It's fundamental to Pick a visible Point on track ahead of you and ensure you pass near to over it  when you Initially set course. Landing somewhere or return to Base is Part Of Navigating. OK we know this is a while ago but things can still be Learned from a lot of things. Revisit what you did and WHY?   The Only Persons who haven't Made Mistakes, haven't Made Anything. It's called Experience.  Nev

[Kiwi]

40 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Magnetic compasses never go around and around except in B grade Movies..  

I love B grade movies.