Crossover pipe of Rotax 912 Carbys

[skippydiesel]

2 minutes ago, Kyle Communications said:

Ok then the tacho is more stable at idle..there is imperical evidence for you. Depends on where you live. Warm up times can be quite long depending on temperature.

Did you also know that no Rotax 912 or even other series have the flywheel balanced. You have a engine that does 5800 rpm in a aircraft and it is not even balanced?

Rotax dont do that so why should they improve a crossover pipe..they just need "something" to balance the manifolds.

There are lots of things that Rotax could and should improve but they dont.....and do you know why?

Because they say after 2000 hrs you throw it away and buy another one. Thats why they dont improve anything

 

 

 

So the primary benefit is at idle. What do you define idle as?

I don't know about your flying - my engine spends very little time at what I would call idle  - sub 2000 rpm.

Cold start goes straight to about 2300rpm. Warm up is at 2500 rpm.

After flight, Taxi @ 2500+ rpm. Shut down my engine as soon as I park  1400-1770 rpm, for as long as it takes (likly less than 30seconds) to do a quick ignition check.😈

[facthunter]

IF  you machine all surfaces of a  part accurately IT can be balanced already. IF it shakes it would be an alignment issue in most cases.  Don't ignore any new vibration. Nev

[Kyle Communications]

6 minutes ago, facthunter said:

IF  you machine all surfaces of a  part accurately IT can be balanced already. IF it shakes it would be an alignment issue in most cases.  Don't ignore any new vibration. Nev

I can tell you from fact and engine rebuilds that the flywheels are no where near balanced. That was on 2 of my engines and since then we have looked at a lot others and none are balanced. I have the access to the equipment and the expertise to have this done. When you pay 40k or a std 912 and 70k for a 915 and 90k for a 916 then I would be expecting to have at least the flywheel balanced

But as I said Rotax base everything on 2000 hr operation...then buy a new one

 

[Kyle Communications]

13 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

So the primary benefit is at idle. What do you define idle as?

I don't know about your flying - my engine spends very little time at what I would call idle  - sub 2000 rpm.

Cold start goes straight to about 2300rpm. Warm up is at 2500 rpm.

After flight, Taxi @ 2500+ rpm. Shut down my engine as soon as I park  1400-1770 rpm, for as long as it takes (likly less than 30seconds) to do a quick ignition check.😈

Do what you want to do Skippy and stop having a whinge about it..you either do it or stop creating internet slop. Arguing about it is a waste of time. Unless of course you want to be king of the opinion brigade. People will do what they want. You have no intention of doing it so why even comment

[facthunter]

Kyle, IF I even slightly  suggest a Rotax is not PERFECT,  I get Howled down Mercilessly, no matter what facts I  bring up. Most of us who have experience KNOW that NO  machine is Perfect. I was Pretty good Mates with Bert Flood some time ago and he didn't say they were Fault free.  
I've been building,  reconditioning Balancing and Modifying engines all my life Pretty successfully If I may say so judging on Performance and lack of failures Your work is quality and well based. Keep up the good work. Nev

[BrendAn]

11 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Kyle, IF I even slightly  suggest a Rotax is not PERFECT,  I get Howled down Mercilessly, no matter what facts I  bring up. Most of us who have experience KNOW that NO  machine is Perfect. I was Pretty good Mates with Bert Flood some time ago and he didn't say they were Fault free.  
I've been building,  reconditioning Balancing and Modifying engines all my life Pretty successfully If I may say so judging on Performance and lack of failures Your work is quality and well based. Keep up the good work. Nev

You have quite often remarked on Rotax being badly designed and having all sorts of faults which just don't happen in the real world.

It's extremely rare for you to post a positive comment about Rotax nev.

I would agree with you if there were broken 912s everywhere but there isn't.  You can buy a 2000 hour flight school engine and run it trouble free for years in a private aircraft. mark said they don't do any balancing but to me it just says there engineering is excellent which even you admitted earlier.

 

Edited Saturday at 12:54 AM by BrendAn

[skippydiesel]

38 minutes ago, Kyle Communications said:

Do what you want to do Skippy and stop having a whinge about it..you either do it or stop creating internet slop. Arguing about it is a waste of time. Unless of course you want to be king of the opinion brigade. People will do what they want. You have no intention of doing it so why even comment

Of course I will do as I want, just as you do.

 

Its not whinging to ask for facts - something glaringly lacking, from all the opportunities you have had, to respond with data.

 

You seem unable to even give your definition of idle (in this context) - a simple question, that is at the base of your support of the Big Tube - why is that?

 

Instead of responding to reasonably/civil put questions, you attack me - not a good strategy. Makes your position on this topic look a tad shaky and puts into question all the other statement you have made.

 

Your responses, very similar to others questioned on the Big Tube, do nothing other than make the concept, as an effective modification,  suspect.😈

[Kyle Communications]

2000 hours of operation is not a lot of hours at all

Put it into perspective. you drive your car an hour to work and a hour to home so 2 hrs a day 5 days a week. so thats 10 hrs a week. So thats 520hrs a year plus all other private driving which could possibly be that again for holidays and visits and days to the beach etc etc so say 1000 hours a year.

According to rotax you need to renegine your car every 2 years

A car engine does not do the rpm or have anywhere near the stress on it of course but numbers are numbers.

I know of many rotax 912 that are 5000 hrs and have not been overhauled and that can be very true but I also know of quite a few that have gone bang for various reason like camshafts and cam bearings and case fretting etc etc in less than 2000 hours as well

Rotax are not perfect but my opinion is they shopuld be much better for the money we pay for them

 

[turboplanner]

52 minutes ago, Kyle Communications said:

I can tell you from fact and engine rebuilds that the flywheels are no where near balanced. That was on 2 of my engines and since then we have looked at a lot others and none are balanced. I have the access to the equipment and the expertise to have this done. When you pay 40k or a std 912 and 70k for a 915 and 90k for a 916 then I would be expecting to have at least the flywheel balanced

But as I said Rotax base everything on 2000 hr operation...then buy a new one

 

Was this imbalance measured  with the flywheel bolted and tensioned in place?

[Kyle Communications]

4 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Of course I will do as I want, just as you do.

 

Its not whinging to ask for facts - something glaringly lacking, from all the opportunities you have had, to respond with data.

 

You seem unable to even give your definition of idle (in this context) - a simple question, that is at the base of your support of the Big Tube - why is that?

 

Instead of responding to reasonably/civil put questions, you attack me - not a good strategy. Makes your position on this topic look a tad shaky and puts into question all the other statement you have made.

 

Your responses, very similar to others questioned on the Big Tube, do nothing other than make the concept, as an effective modification,  suspect.😈

Agree to disagree You do you and I will do me

 

[skippydiesel]

2 minutes ago, Kyle Communications said:

Agree to disagree You do you and I will do me

 

Still no facts😈

[Moneybox]

2 minutes ago, Kyle Communications said:

Agree to disagree You do you and I will do me

 

Please keep this sort of behaviour behind closed doors...

[Kyle Communications]

4 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

Was this imbalance measured  with the flywheel bolted and tensioned in place?

The engines have been "blueprinted" pistons all weighed and made the same crankshaft balanced conrods weighed and made the same. The whole assembly balanced on a running balancer. I can assure you Turbo I know what I am talking about. Including balancing model jet turbines with my own 100k Schenck balancer I was balancing turbines that ran at 250,000 rpm. I do know just a little bit about balancing...oh and also I used to fix engine balancers for motor builders too.

[facthunter]

Most of My comments can  easily be confirmed IF people do the research which they Can't be bothered doing because their Mind is already made up . I reserve the right to critique ANYTHING and I don't tell LIES either or Make stuff up. Unfortunately there's a Lot of absolute Crap about on line but with a bit of Honest and skilful effort you will get info you can rely on. My criticism if some aspects  would stand assessment by engineers and I'm sure Rotax are aware of it too. They Have upgraded a few things as a result. Press fits and Case strength.  Nev

[skippydiesel]

27 minutes ago, Kyle Communications said:

The engines have been "blueprinted" pistons all weighed and made the same crankshaft balanced conrods weighed and made the same. The whole assembly balanced on a running balancer. I can assure you Turbo I know what I am talking about. Including balancing model jet turbines with my own 100k Schenck balancer I was balancing turbines that ran at 250,000 rpm. I do know just a little bit about balancing...oh and also I used to fix engine balancers for motor builders too.

 "I can assure you Turbo I know what I am talking about."

 

As I observed earlier,  a self claimed expert, who wont even give his definition of a Rotax 912 idle,  makes it very difficult to take any subsequent claims/statements seriously😈

Edited Saturday at 01:41 AM by skippydiesel

[turboplanner]

24 minutes ago, Kyle Communications said:

The engines have been "blueprinted" pistons all weighed and made the same crankshaft balanced conrods weighed and made the same. The whole assembly balanced on a running balancer. I can assure you Turbo I know what I am talking about. Including balancing model jet turbines with my own 100k Schenck balancer I was balancing turbines that ran at 250,000 rpm. I do know just a little bit about balancing...oh and also I used to fix engine balancers for motor builders too.

OK, accepting that, were these "out of balance" flywheels observed with the flywheel in its place, or off the engine/crank balanced on knife edges or electronically?

 

 

[facthunter]

Skip, Kyle More than JUST Claimed it. He gave you fullsome reasons why. Turb It's STATIC or DYNAMIC. Dynamic required for things with significant width/length. Knife edges are fine for static work. Nev

[turboplanner]

48 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Skip, Kyle More than JUST Claimed it. He gave you fullsome reasons why. Turb It's STATIC or DYNAMIC. Dynamic required for things with significant width/length. Knife edges are fine for static work. Nev

Well, what would we do to check the balance of a machined circular flywheel - or why are so many Rotax flywheels out of balance and why would that be relevant to fitting this pipe in lieu of fine tuning the carburettors?

[facthunter]

I' m just correcting  a couple of errors. Nev

[Kyle Communications]

Anything that rotates needs to be balanced especially in a high rpm engine. The crank is rotated at speed held in journals and the machine tells you what position and how much to either take off or add on in those spots. Its pretty simple really when you have invested the time and money into the equipment to do the job properly.

You balance your car tyres dont you?  well why doesnt Rotax balance their flywheels. We have tried more than 10 flywheels and all are not even close to being balanced. The flywheel is just one part of a assembly that when all added together hopefully has a vibrational level that doesnt cause extra wear or pressure on the rest of the components

[turboplanner]

15 minutes ago, Kyle Communications said:

Anything that rotates needs to be balanced especially in a high rpm engine. The crank is rotated at speed held in journals and the machine tells you what position and how much to either take off or add on in those spots. Its pretty simple really when you have invested the time and money into the equipment to do the job properly.

You balance your car tyres dont you?  well why doesnt Rotax balance their flywheels. We have tried more than 10 flywheels and all are not even close to being balanced. The flywheel is just one part of a assembly that when all added together hopefully has a vibrational level that doesnt cause extra wear or pressure on the rest of the components

OK, now what does the flywheel balance have to do with a pipe connecting Carburettors?

[BrendAn]

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

 "I can assure you Turbo I know what I am talking about."

 

As I observed earlier,  a self claimed expert, who wont even give his definition of a Rotax 912 idle,  makes it very difficult to take any subsequent claims/statements seriously😈

A bit aggressive Skippy.

Did you get up on the wrong side of the sonex today

[Kyle Communications]

24 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

OK, now what does the flywheel balance have to do with a pipe connecting Carburettors?

Nothing of course but you know Skippy

[turboplanner]

9 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

A bit aggressive Skippy.

Did you get up on the wrong side of the sonex today

Let's just get to the centre of the pipe claim.

[Blueadventures]

8 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

Let's just get to the centre of the pipe claim.

Flywheel balance is linked as the pipe effect is to reduce vibration, comments welcomed.  What's needs to reduce is the doubters that keep asking to verify (especially they almost never verify their stuff.)