Spitfire engine out. Safe landing. Lax maintenance to blame.

[facthunter]

The engine never had a TBO above 650 Hour's and only a Very few countries allowed it on the CIVIL register for RPT.   Nev

[danny_galaga]

18 hours ago, onetrack said:

I've always been amused at the story (perhaps apocryphal) that reputedly occurred between the RR engineers and the Packard engineers, when the discussions were taking place with regards to manufacture of the Merlin by Packard.

The story goes, the Packard engineers asked for details of the engineering stress and strain calculations on the Merlin components by RR engineers.

 

It's reported the RR engineers replied, "Oh, we never bothered with those type of calculations, we just ran the engine under huge loads until something broke - and then we made that part stronger!"

This news apparently horrified the Packard engineers who normally went into great detail regarding calculations of stresses and strains, and who never considered testing engine components to destruction.

 

I think the best comment I've seen regarding the Merlin, is one that said, "if RR had ever known they were going to have to produce 150,000+ engines for aircraft during the War, they would've designed a different engine".

If it wasn't for WW2, we would possibly only have ever seen a few hundred Merlins manufactured, before a new improved design was produced.

Still, testing to destruction would glean a while bunch of info above individual calculations. For instance, say calculations tell you part A might break. Actually running a prototype until part A breaks might show that breaking that impacts parts B and C. 

[facthunter]

For an Engine well before it's time, Look up 1914 Delage Four valve desmo Racer, One of three still left.  I knew it before the Block had to be replaced. It was worked on By Jack Nelson at Romsey, A very good friend of mine and IT was a " Runner" for quite a while being entered at the Geelong sprints several times. The replacement block complete with Head was done At Malden involving "Up the CREEK Motors" which specialised in Austin 7 s. THAT CAR is Priceless.

  Another NICE motor was MILLER a racing speedboat Motor which was the BASIS of the OFFENHAUSER race car engines, later.  US made.  Superb quality. Late 20 and up to Post war.  I had the Privilege to work on one in the 50's. It's well worth looking this up. Nev

[onetrack]

I've seen a 6 cylinder 1930 Bentley engine in an engine reconditioning shop, and it was an amazing piece of engineering - a monobloc with no separate head, and I hate to think of the amount of finicky work involved in repairing it and reassembling it.

 

Edited October 30 by onetrack

[facthunter]

Hard to do valve seat Inserts Bugatti's are similar. Nev

[Siso]

I reckon there was an australian drag engine manufacturer in the 80's that did the same thing. No head gaskets to blow. Were the early merlins the same?

[facthunter]

The Merlin has no head gaskets.  Each Bank has the cylinders and heads made in one piece and held to the case by long studs. Nev

[facthunter]

Head gaskets are the Weakness/Failure spot in Many Motors. Bolts etc compromise Port size, position and shape. .  Nev

[CT9000]

I had an interesting conversation with a bloke that knew of some poor bloke that had a blown head gasket on his Rotax 912 and was stuck in the middle of now where. My comment was that it did not happen. There has never been a recorded case of a 912 blowing a head gasket. When quizzed how I could know that I pointed out that a 912 does not have head gaskets. 

[facthunter]

It does have two separate Parts and some studs have snapped and there's only 4 per cyl. Nev

[Blueadventures]

A mate of mine found a nut missing on his 912 ULS Rotax (No 1 Cylinder head) still ran like normal.  I told him to get 3 nuts form Floods; one to fit and a spare for his kit and one for my kit in case we come across the same again some time.  Very forgiving engines the 912 UL and ULS in my experience.

[facthunter]

Such things MISSING won't do it any good. It cannot be Designed for that. Nev

[Blueadventures]

4 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Such things MISSING won't do it any good. It cannot be Designed for that. Nev

Agree, apparently has occurred on other engines, nut splits and loosens off.  Just interesting that no damage occurs.

[BrendAn]

11 hours ago, Siso said:

I reckon there was an australian drag engine manufacturer in the 80's that did the same thing. No head gaskets to blow. Were the early merlins the same?

steyr marine diesels are jug engines as are  most mercury outboards up to the 1990s

[BrendAn]

mercury outboards being 2 stroke had to have all the pistons inserted with the crank in one go .

 

[facthunter]

Over stressing WOULD occur., Whether the damage shows is another Matter. Aero engines that have exceeded the RPM Limit are Junked whether they still run or not. Crack testing doesn't show everything. Aero engines are Built as light as Possible, consistent with reliability.  Nev

[facthunter]

 Some outboards Have split Big ends even though they are roller, other wise the Cranks would have to be pressed up. Heads are often gasketless with 'O' rings .You can have lots of studs as the Ports are well away. Nev

[BrendAn]

44 minutes ago, facthunter said:

 Some outboards Have split Big ends even though they are roller, other wise the Cranks would have to be pressed up. Heads are often gasketless with 'O' rings .You can have lots of studs as the Ports are well away. Nev

Google mercury tower of power.

[skippydiesel]

17 hours ago, Blueadventures said:

Agree, apparently has occurred on other engines, nut splits and loosens off.  Just interesting that no damage occurs.

"A mate of mine found a nut missing on his 912 ULS Rotax (No 1 Cylinder head) still ran like normal"

 

All very vague - from where exactly, on the engine,came the nut (s)????

 

FYI: If these are cylinder head nuts there is a specified loosening/tightening/turn degrees required. Refer to Heavy Maintenance Manual😈

[facthunter]

Long studs have been breaking. The alloy engine Parts expand more than the steel studs do thermally and they stretch. A fairly common problem in such situations.  Nev

[danny_galaga]

One of the coolest car engine blocks would have to be the Lamborghini Miura. It was built like a motorbike engine- engine block, gearbox and diff cast in one piece.

[onetrack]

Wow, imagine the bill when a gear or some other reciprocating part lets go, and ventilates that housing somewhere??!! 🥹

 

"Dear Customer, we are sorry to inform you that due to major component failure, you need a complete new engine, transmission and rear axle! The replacement cost will be $478,000 (!)".....

 

Ah well - I guess if you can afford a Lamborghini Miura or three, the cost of a complete new drivetrain wouldn't bother you!

[danny_galaga]

57 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Wow, imagine the bill when a gear or some other reciprocating part lets go, and ventilates that housing somewhere??!! 🥹

 

"Dear Customer, we are sorry to inform you that due to major component failure, you need a complete new engine, transmission and rear axle! The replacement cost will be $478,000 (!)".....

 

Ah well - I guess if you can afford a Lamborghini Miura or three, the cost of a complete new drivetrain wouldn't bother you!

To be fair, the main reciprocating part that might let go in a car would be a con rod.

[kgwilson]

9 hours ago, danny_galaga said:

One of the coolest car engine blocks would have to be the Lamborghini Miura. It was built like a motorbike engine- engine block, gearbox and diff cast in one piece.

Just like the Mini in 1959. Engine gearbox & diff lubricant was shared. 

[facthunter]

Lambourgini never set  any great records for reliability. Sharing lubricants makes things unnecessarily difficult. I think that GEARBOX IS separate. It appears to be sealed off. Gearbox cases have to be very strong. and it's probably East  West & FWD.  No bevel Gear.  Nev