Landing Fees

[skippydiesel]

Disappointing response from Australian Airports Association (AAA).

 

I may be mistaken, it would seem they are not intersted in the private pilot interaction, with the airports (owners) they would seem to be representing.

 

Had a quick brows of their staff structure & comming conferences - no mention of staff  being or ever training as a pilot - conference speaker list has one CPL, who seemed to be speaking on a safety (not sure what aspect).

 

An earlier contributor, to this Thread, speculated that there is a lack of pilot representation amongst owners (Local Councils), which may be contributing to what appears to be an apathetic delivery of airfield services to private pilots.

 

😈

 

 

[Moneybox]

16 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Disappointing response from Australian Airports Association (AAA).

 

I may be mistaken, it would seem they are not intersted in the private pilot interaction, with the airports (owners) they would seem to be representing.

 

Had a quick brows of their staff structure & comming conferences - no mention of staff  being or ever training as a pilot - conference speaker list has one CPL, who seemed to be speaking on a safety (not sure what aspect).

 

An earlier contributor, to this Thread, speculated that there is a lack of pilot representation amongst owners (Local Councils), which may be contributing to what appears to be an apathetic delivery of airfield services to private pilots.

 

😈

 

 

Just got a private pilot voted onto the Shire of Cue last Friday. I don't know if it'll make any difference but at least it's one with a common interest.

[turboplanner]

3 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Disappointing response from Australian Airports Association (AAA).

 

I may be mistaken, it would seem they are not intersted in the private pilot interaction, with the airports (owners) they would seem to be representing.

 

Had a quick brows of their staff structure & comming conferences - no mention of staff  being or ever training as a pilot - conference speaker list has one CPL, who seemed to be speaking on a safety (not sure what aspect).

 

An earlier contributor, to this Thread, speculated that there is a lack of pilot representation amongst owners (Local Councils), which may be contributing to what appears to be an apathetic delivery of airfield services to private pilots.

 

😈

 

 

What services are they apathetic about? No forced landing areas, stock on airfields, erosion, roos?

[Reynard]

Don’t really want to chuck fuel on the fire here, but here’s something interesting…..

 

Derby airport, WA.   No indication of any fees imposed in ERSA, and don’t direct you to any website. Just a contact email address and phone numbers.

 

However, reports by pilots are that a single landing fee for a 2 seater in 2023 was $55 and a more recent ‘light aircraft’ was charged $60 in July last year just to land and refuel.

 

Hmmm.

[coljones]

1 hour ago, Reynard said:

Don’t really want to chuck fuel on the fire here, but here’s something interesting…..

 

Derby airport, WA.   No indication of any fees imposed in ERSA, and don’t direct you to any website. Just a contact email address and phone numbers.

 

However, reports by pilots are that a single landing fee for a 2 seater in 2023 was $55 and a more recent ‘light aircraft’ was charged $60 in July last year just to land and refuel.

 

Hmmm.

AvData is a good source of landing fee info (if you can get around some of the gobbledygook)

[Reynard]

Thanks Col - yeah, I found the AvData list via the RAAus website. Confirmed $60 landing fee and $24/day parking.

Geez, I’m not sure the airfield is even fenced or has a dunny !

[skippydiesel]

For what its worth-

 

I don't believe any (private or commercial)  pilot should have to look further than ERSA for Airfield Use Schedule (Fees Parking etc).

 

Where the airfield is open to the flying public (ie prior permission to access is nor required) in a similar way to a car park being open to the driving public and the Schedule is not posted in ERSA, I do not believe you should pay anything.

 

To the best of my knowledge ALL carparks that charge for access/use MUST POST THEIR FEES AT THE ENTRANCE in such a location/position that the driver can easily inform themselves of the terms & conditions and decide to accept or not. Acceptance being inferred by entering the facility.

 

My limited understanding of Consumer law suggests that ALL PROVIDERS OF GOOD & SERVICES MUST IMFORME THE CUSTOMER PRIOR TO THE DELIVERY OF SAID GOOD OR SERVICE. In this context the owner of the airfield (overwhelmingly Local Councils) must inform the pilot of the airfield Access Schedule. THE RESPONSABILITY TO DO SO LIES WITH THE OWNER, NOT THE PILOT ie the pilot should not have to go searching for the information (web sites, third party providers, phone calls to hard to contact ARO's, etc)

 

• The logical and readily available "notice board" for this information is ERSA.

 

The airfield owners know about & already use  ERSA. They make cryptic statements along the lines of  "Landing Fees Apply" but either are unaware of how pilots use ERSA or just couldn't be bothered to post their fees.

 

• Air Services Australia have told me there is no additional charge for airfields posting their Fee Schedule in ERSA.
•  
• I am told that Local Council's review their fee schedules once per year - how hard can it be for any changes to be updated in ERSA once per annum???

 

Airfield owners may start to take notice when pilots refuse to pay for airfield access ,when not informed in ERSA, prior to landing, of the charges.

 

😈

 

 

[coljones]

13 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

For what its worth-

 

I don't believe any (private or commercial)  pilot should have to look further than ERSA for Airfield Use Schedule (Fees Parking etc).

 

Where the airfield is open to the flying public (ie prior permission to access is nor required) in a similar way to a car park being open to the driving public and the Schedule is not posted in ERSA, I do not believe you should pay anything.

 

To the best of my knowledge ALL carparks that charge for access/use MUST POST THEIR FEES AT THE ENTRANCE in such a location/position that the driver can easily inform themselves of the terms & conditions and decide to accept or not. Acceptance being inferred by entering the facility.

 

My limited understanding of Consumer law suggests that ALL PROVIDERS OF GOOD & SERVICES MUST IMFORME THE CUSTOMER PRIOR TO THE DELIVERY OF SAID GOOD OR SERVICE. In this context the owner of the airfield (overwhelmingly Local Councils) must inform the pilot of the airfield Access Schedule. THE RESPONSABILITY TO DO SO LIES WITH THE OWNER, NOT THE PILOT ie the pilot should not have to go searching for the information (web sites, third party providers, phone calls to hard to contact ARO's, etc)

 

• The logical and readily available "notice board" for this information is ERSA.

 

The airfield owners know about & already use  ERSA. They make cryptic statements along the lines of  "Landing Fees Apply" but either are unaware of how pilots use ERSA or just couldn't be bothered to post their fees.

 

• Air Services Australia have told me there is no additional charge for airfields posting their Fee Schedule in ERSA.
•  
• I am told that Local Council's review their fee schedules once per year - how hard can it be for any changes to be updated in ERSA once per annum???

 

Airfield owners may start to take notice when pilots refuse to pay for airfield access ,when not informed in ERSA, prior to landing, of the charges.

 

😈

 

 

But in the meantime phones, EFBs and AvData are your friends. Of greater concern is BP not accepting credit cards (may BP burn in hell)

[facthunter]

BP are not a very NICE company to deal with often.  Nev

[Blueadventures]

2 minutes ago, facthunter said:

BP are not a very NICE company to deal with often.  Nev

Agree, up here they are nice enough to offer 5 cents a litre off; when they are 9 cents a litre dearer then the servo 100 meters along the road on the same side.  Always trying to con you into loylity.

[facthunter]

Yes SHELL usually discount from a Higher than normal, Price.  Nev

[coljones]

3 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Yes SHELL usually discount from a Higher than normal, Price.  Nev

I'm sure that Grace Bros used to raise their prices and then reduce them to RRP during sales.

[facthunter]

That's going back a while isn't it? Nev

[BrendAn]

7 minutes ago, facthunter said:

That's going back a while isn't it? Nev

Young mr grace isn't around any more. His nurses should be.😁

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, coljones said:

But in the meantime phones, EFBs and AvData are your friends. Of greater concern is BP not accepting credit cards (may BP burn in hell)

So does this mean its oaky with you that you & your fellow pilots, must go looking for the fees that an airfield owners wishes to charge you?

 

😈

[coljones]

1 hour ago, skippydiesel said:

So does this mean its oaky with you that you & your fellow pilots, must go looking for the fees that an airfield owners wishes to charge you?

 

😈

I'd probably ring the ARO to ask if there are any issues, handy hints, whether there is any fuel (or have they run out, if there is a loaner car, a bunkhouse, if there is an entertainment or festival (you won't find a bed in town during bootscooting week in Tamworth). Ohh, and while I've got them, "what are the landing fees, where are the tiedown and where is the loo, is it locked or should I just piddle on the grass (is there any grass?) And what is the weather going to be like tomorrow, is there a website for the club.  Let the ARO be your friend. Or should all that be in ERSA as well?

Edited Thursday at 10:25 AM by coljones

[skippydiesel]

11 hours ago, coljones said:

I'd probably ring the ARO to ask if there are any issues, handy hints, whether there is any fuel (or have they run out, if there is a loaner car, a bunkhouse, if there is an entertainment or festival (you won't find a bed in town during bootscooting week in Tamworth). Ohh, and while I've got them, "what are the landing fees, where are the tiedown and where is the loo, is it locked or should I just piddle on the grass (is there any grass?) And what is the weather going to be like tomorrow, is there a website for the club.  Let the ARO be your friend. Or should all that be in ERSA as well?

It seems you would rather make a frivolous case against having Landing Fees in ERSA, than support what can only be a benefit to all pilots, considering landing at a field they are unfamiliar with.

 

Your argument is spurious - Every traveler wishing to stay overnight or longer, at a location will research the services available. What of the pilot passing through, wanting a comfort stop. Your position; phone the ARO to get the detail on the landing fees -  to bad the ARO not available, does not phone back  to your message BUT WAIT! you can always go to some third party or try to navigated the Councils web site. ALL CRAP! when it could so easily be in ERSA.

 

😈

 

[facthunter]

How many times do you need to tell us the same thing,  Skip? WE heard you the first time.  Nev