Radio use.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Many seasoned pilots make mistakes.. Radio is not perfect - just another weapon in the safety arsenal.

 

The area in the red square (Willedo should like that) is probably the busiest GA airspace in the world on a good summer's day because it is where highest conecntration of GA/rec planes are based or pass through, it is full of no-go controlled airspace, particularly the Heathrow CTA (which is as low as 2,500' for long distances), Heathrow CTR, London City, Gatwick, Luton, Stansted, Southhampton, a couple of yearrs ago, Southend and now Farnborough all have Class D CTRs. So, most airgraft, GA and Rec, fly around the squeezing many aircraft in a small area and it does get very tight. Farnborough operate 3 LARS services (West, North and East) that roughly cover the box, with assitance from RAF Benson when it is active. Although some pilots are "purists" and would not entertain even carrying a portable in their vintage or grass-roots planes, there is no way in hell I would go there withough a radio. It gets so busy (with the ridiculously long calls we have to make), that last time I flew I couldn't get a word in edgeways. But we now have listening squawk codes; so we set the transponder to that ATC unit's listensing code and they know we are (supposed to be) on frequency and will call us if they feel we need to. Works pretty well. A couple of times while on a listening squawk I have been warned of conflicting traffic that I could not see.

 

When we leave the area (or in my case, switch to the aerodrome information frequency), we squawk 7000 (general VFR code and a reason why they never issue a code ending in 500, 600 or 700). Where the airfield we are arriving at is within an airport CTR, the airfield will have an agreed squawk code so the airport ATC know that the aircraft is entering the CTR for that airfield.

 

[turboplanner]

I did. I stand by my comment. Now howsabout you go look up the CAR's and CAAP's and tell us what the MANDATORY calls are...I'll wait.....

If you and Derek have been looking in CASA documents you're on the wrong trail, you need to search Airservices Australia, a different organisation.

 

I posted the class D requiremnents for radio and phraseology two weeks ago, briefly:

AIP Gen 3.4 AIP ENR 1.1

Procedure-Aircraft Operations Vol1, ICAO 8168 Chapter 12.

[KRviator]

If you and Derek have been looking in CASA documents you're on the wrong trail, you need to search Airservices Australia, a different organisation.

 

I posted the class D requiremnents for radio and phraseology two weeks ago, briefly:

AIP Gen 3.4 AIP ENR 1.1

Procedure-Aircraft Operations Vol1, ICAO 8168 Chapter 12.

Those chapters you've referenced in the AIP GEN3.4 are when in communication with an ATC/ATS unit, not for use when operating OCTA. And the only requirement in AIP ENR 1.1 that mandates radio usage in Class G is AIP ENR1.1.10.1.4 which states:

To achieve the greatest degree of safety CAR 166C requires pilots of aircraft carrying a serviceable radio which they are qualified to use' date=' to make a broadcast whenever it is reasonably necessary to do so to avoid a collision, or the risk of a collision with another aircraft at a non-controlled aerodrome. In certain circumstances carriage of radio and being qualified to use it are mandatory - (Refer to para 6.1 and CAAP 166-01).[/quote']

 

A couple of chapters further on, it even says:

In Class G airspace' date=' pilots of radio-equipped VFR aircraft [u']should[/u] monitor the appropriate VHF frequency and announce if in potential conflict. Pilots intercepting broadcasts from aircraft which are considered to be in potenial conflict must acknolwedge by transmitting their own callsign and, as appropriate, aircraft type, posiition, actual level and intentions.

My underlining. Unless you can provide a specific reference, I again stand by my assertion there are no mandatory broadcasts required by a radio-equipped aircraft operating OCTA except as necessary to avoid a collision.

[flyunder]

Read the CASA publication reproduced at the top of this, it states “Radio carriage and USE is still MANDATORY”

Ctaf +mbz

[Ironpot]

http://vfrg.casa.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/visual-flight-rules-guide.pdf

[coljones]

Having a radio is no guarantee that you will be safe. At my home strip we have aircraft flying on area frequency, because they do not even know that the strip is there. When you fly cross country are you looking for all those strips near your route and changing frequency to listen to all of them, or do you listen to area frequency to stay safe and informed?

If you are not on the map you should be on area. If people don't know that you are there why would they be be 126.7. If you are not on the map, why not? Are you a bunch of drug runners? If you are flying cross country and within 10 miles of a strip and lower than 2000' agl you should probably be on CTAF for situational awareness.

[Mike Borgelt]

There was a CASA advisory publication in May 2019 on radio use in Class G. Seemed to me the only MANDATORY transmission stuff was if an IFR guy called and there was a conflict. CASA has no interest in VFR aviation, particularly recreational, or its safety and wishes it would all go away. They are doing their best to ensure this.

 

Most mid-airs occur in the vicinity of aerodromes, in particular in the circuit. We've been using radio in Australia for a long time and it doesn't seem to have helped all that much. Looking out and training yourself to actually *see* might be better. The frequency fills up orders of magnitude quicker than the airspace. There was once an article in the old Aviation Safety Digest about how your visual perceptions are severely constricted by listening or talking on a radio. Aviation was operating for a long time before voice radios in aircraft came along.

 

I learned to fly in gliders at Cunderdin W.A. in the late 1960's, never had a radio in a glider until late 1973. Cunderdin was a popular nav point for RACWA aircraft at the time. Never had an issue.

 

Funny how in the USA you can fly VFR in Class G and E, enroute and you don't even have to maintain a listening watch on any frequency. It is common to monitor 121.5 on a second radio.

[Moneybox]

How do you know if your radio is operating correctly?

 

Where I fly I usually fly alone, rarely another aircraft within radio range. I always make my calls, taxiing, departure, downwind approach etc. but never receive a response. The airports/airstrips I usually fly to are silent as well. If I fly south to Mount Magnet I usually get an echo back from the CTAF that confirms my transmission. Same in Northam I think but can’t remember for sure.

[Blueadventures]

57 minutes ago, Moneybox said:

How do you know if your radio is operating correctly?

 

Where I fly I usually fly alone, rarely another aircraft within radio range. I always make my calls, taxiing, departure, downwind approach etc. but never receive a response. The airports/airstrips I usually fly to are silent as well. If I fly south to Mount Magnet I usually get an echo back from the CTAF that confirms my transmission. Same in Northam I think but can’t remember for sure.

Dual watch Centre Freq, that will show receiving, when you hear an aircraft call and they finish their communication you could ask for a radio check.

[Moneybox]

20 minutes ago, Blueadventures said:

Dual watch Centre Freq??

I don’t understand what you mean by this.

[Blueadventures]

5 hours ago, Moneybox said:

I don’t understand what you mean by this.

Over here on East side our RPT are communicating with Brisbane Centre.  I dual watch my local freq and the respective centre freq.

[KRviator]

7 hours ago, Moneybox said:

I don’t understand what you mean by this.

Most modern radios can monitor the Standby frequency.

Use the Active for your CTAF, and keep the overlying Area frequency as Standby with Monitor enabled.

[RossK]

Your CTAF is 126.7 and your Area Freq is Melboure Centre 122.6

So you should be monitoring 122.6, this is also the frequency you should be on if you need to declare an emergency.

If your radio is working properly, once airborne, Melb Cent should hear you on 122.6 (they may hear you on the ground), you can also call and ask for a radio check on that frequency.

[kgwilson]

They will only hear you if you broadcast on 122.6. Monitoring is receiving only.

[skippydiesel]

I stand to be corrected;

 

(The following is for operations outside controlled airspace)

 

Human eyesight is very bad at picking up other inflight aircraft.

Pilots can vastly improve on locating other inflight aircraft, if they have access to technology that gives them a clue as to where the other is.

The technology referred to is first and foremost RADIO, followed by transponder (includes systems like Ozrunways)

Radio requires that the pilot uses it APPROPRIATELY

Appropriately means giving your Location ( + in space when airborne) , Aircraft type/call sign, Intentions and any other pertinent information for that stage of flight, finishing with LOCATION &/or Aircraft call sign (depending on comms type ie if calling ATC aircraft  & rego first & last).

 

I contend this should be done whenever;

• Manoeuvring your aircraft on the ground taxing for ???
• Lining up - + intentions (circuits / airwork / departure direction circuit leg, PoB, etc)
• At 10 Nm of an airfield (active or not)
• Overflying within that 10Nm circle (not just directly overhead eg passing abeam, 5Nm West 4500, tracking ??? .............)
• Joining the Circuit of the airfield and on Down Wind & Base
• Unusual opps  eg conducting stalls between 3k-4k ft 15Nm due west of location
• Clear of runway(s)

In addition to the above;

• At every Waypoint where there is a change of direction and/or altitude.
• Departure from planed rout and/or altitude

All of the above depends on curtesy;

• Don't conduct conversations on CTAF (go to something like 123.45 if you want to chat)
• Dont talk over other transmitters - wait your turn AND allow for missing a call ie its no big deal that you didn't get your 10Nm in - do a 8 or a 6 etc,  haven't done a Down Wind, just go to the next - Base
• Following correct radio comms terminology is desirable, way more important is making the call - the receiver can always ask for clarification, if needed.

Make the calls - NEVER ASSUME THAT THERE IS NO OTHER AIRCRAFT OPERATING IN YOUR VICINITY they may just be assuming the same.

Adhere to the Hemispherical Cruising Altitudes.

Double check your radio frequency selection, especially when in turbulence.

If you haven't heard a transmission in some time - ask  the Air Traffic Controller for the Area QNH or a Radio Check, just to be sure you transceiver is working and you are on the right frequency.

 

😈

 

[Moneybox]

37 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

I stand to be corrected;

 

(The following is for operations outside controlled airspace)

 

Human eyesight is very bad at picking up other inflight aircraft.

Pilots can vastly improve on locating other inflight aircraft, if they have access to technology that gives them a clue as to where the other is.

The technology referred to is first and foremost RADIO, followed by transponder (includes systems like Ozrunways)

Radio requires that the pilot uses it APPROPRIATELY

Appropriately means giving your Location ( + in space when airborne) , Aircraft type/call sign, Intentions and any other pertinent information for that stage of flight, finishing with LOCATION &/or Aircraft call sign (depending on comms type ie if calling ATC aircraft  & rego first & last).

 

I contend this should be done whenever;

• Manoeuvring your aircraft on the ground taxing for ???
• Lining up - + intentions (circuits / airwork / departure direction circuit leg, PoB, etc)
• At 10 Nm of an airfield (active or not)
• Overflying within that 10Nm circle (not just directly overhead eg passing abeam, 5Nm West 4500, tracking ??? .............)
• Joining the Circuit of the airfield and on Down Wind & Base
• Unusual opps  eg conducting stalls between 3k-4k ft 15Nm due west of location
• Clear of runway(s)

In addition to the above;

• At every Waypoint where there is a change of direction and/or altitude.
• Departure from planed rout and/or altitude

All of the above depends on curtesy;

• Don't conduct conversations on CTAF (go to something like 123.45 if you want to chat)
• Dont talk over other transmitters - wait your turn AND allow for missing a call ie its no big deal that you didn't get your 10Nm in - do a 8 or a 6 etc,  haven't done a Down Wind, just go to the next - Base
• Following correct radio comms terminology is desirable, way more important is making the call - the receiver can always ask for clarification, if needed.

Make the calls - NEVER ASSUME THAT THERE IS NO OTHER AIRCRAFT OPERATING IN YOUR VICINITY they may just be assuming the same.

Adhere to the Hemispherical Cruising Altitudes.

Double check your radio frequency selection, especially when in turbulence.

If you haven't heard a transmission in some time - ask  the Air Traffic Controller for the Area QNH or a Radio Check, just to be sure you transceiver is working and you are on the right frequency.

 

😈

 

Yes Skip, I understand, I have my radio endorsement and put it to use whenever I fly however I rarely hear more than my own voice. There are very few small aircraft operating in my region but we do have the big regional airlines delivering and picking up miners from the regional airports and many of the large mine sites. That has prompted my decision to install the Trig TT22 ADSB and Astro+ ADSB receiver.

[Moneybox]

The reason for my question…..

 

Yesterday’s flight was a bit more stressful than it should have been. The wind was up early. We slept in the van at the airport, I didn’t need to poke my head out to check the weather because to van was rocking in the wind. That meant I didn’t get away until about eight thirty but I used my time double checking the chart, radio frequencies and called ATIS at my destination. 
 

When I got in the plane to leave it appeared to have a flat battery. I doubted that because I’d just flown in from Cue and the volt meter had shown readings from 9.8v to 13.2v at different times along the way. I reached up under the cowl and checked, the battery terminals felt tight but when I tried again engine cranked briefly.

 

After a bit of fiddling the engine cranked like it should and the little Rotax burst into life showing full battery power. At least now I know where my charging issues come from, there appears to be a broken wire right at the battery. I was not about to risk turning it off so I made my radio call, taxied to the yellow line, called my backtracking for departure on runway 14 and set off.

 

Just before getting to the end of runway turn point I spotted another aircraft heading directly towards me on final, no acknowledgement of my radio call and no call of their intentions. I hit the throttle, did an immediate u-turn and with the stiff headwind was in the air before he could get near me. I wasn’t happy but was clear of the airport and on my way.

 

I was flying into controlled airspace so apart from noting the two radio frequencies for the tower and the ground frequency I also printed them on the palm of my hand, easier and quicker than checking my written notes. A couple of times I saw an antenna message flash up on the MGL Mini, just enough to put doubts in my mind about my radio.

 

At 10 miles out I made the first call but received no acknowledgment from the tower. A little while later I called again, still silence so I switched to the second frequency, still nothing. By then I was quite sure my radio was not receiving so I did my best to notify the tower on both frequencies that I was not receiving their transmission.

 

Anyway I know my way around Jandakot after training there so I dropped to 1000’ and joined the Right Hand circuit for runway 06R. I was super vigilant but never spotted another aircraft. I knew I was in for a decent crosswind because the wind had been from the SE all morning. As I was descending final I spotted an aircraft waiting on my right to cross my airstrip.

 

Right then the penny dropped, they had changed airstrips since my ATIS call with landings now on runway 12 directly into the wind. No other aircraft in sight and I was crabbing into the wind but setup to land. It turned out to be a 14kt crosswind but landed nicely and taxied to the stop line on 06L. Now I tried to contact Jandakot Ground, still no response and I had to cross a runway to make it to the apron. Everything was clear so I did it briskly and made it to my destination. 
 

An inspection by the electronics guy showed the antenna coax cable pulled out of the antenna. Just as well my plane is in for a new panel, new instruments and rewiring. I don’t want to do that again….

[skippydiesel]

34 minutes ago, Moneybox said:

Yes Skip, I understand, I have my radio endorsement and put it to use whenever I fly however I rarely hear more than my own voice. There are very few small aircraft operating in my region but we do have the big regional airlines delivering and picking up miners from the regional airports and many of the large mine sites. That has prompted my decision to install the Trig TT22 ADSB and Astro+ ADSB receiver.

I am sure you do. I wasn't commenting on your post rather emphasizing what I believe is best practice. One error (only the 1 I hope?) that no one has caught me out on.

 

In the Sydney Basin greater area, we have a lot of traffic - Camden,  Bankstown, The Oaks , training activity and then there are the "through/from" aircraft from them and Wedderburn & Mittagong & sometimes Shell harbour (Woolongong). 

 

This means 5 frequencies (including Area). I suspect a lot of the aircraft are on their "home" frequency and some are monitoring Area

Most , not all have some form of transponder. 

A few are still using the old Mode C (?) transponder that aren't received/painted on my iPad/Ozrunways/SE2.

To add to the potential "confusion" , once airborne, clear transmissions, on CTAF 126.7, can be heard from aircraft operating way out west. If you miss or they didn't give Location, it can be a bit of a heart stopper at times.

 

Partly because there are so many frequencies, within a relativly small area, and shear lack of curtesy/airmanship, communication standards are awful.

 

Seems to be that the Sydney Basin should have;

• A single discreet Common Frequency, once in flight, seperate from CTAF & Sydney Area.
• A requirement for all aircraft to carry a transceiver, with second frequency monitoring capability.
• Carry, as minimum a Sky Echo 2 (or better ADSB IN/OUT)

That way the PIC can communicate with other aircraft in the vicinity, become situationally aware.

 

ALL of the above is as nought, if the PIC does not communicate effectively.

 

 

😈

 

 

 

 

[BurnieM]

With low traffic the assumption is nobody is around and your radio is probably ok. Not correct in this situation.

 

A good idea to call for a radio check on every startup but would not have helped with an antenna problem.

 

If you have a handheld get your partner to give you a radio check from at least 500 M away.

 

[BurnieM]

A discreet common Sydney area frequency is not likely to solve communications problems.

 

Just having Sydney Intl on this freq would create massive congestion as these departing flights are at high levels with transmissions covering a wide area.

 

Dropping out YSSY, Bankstown and Camden alone would create congestion for ShellHarbour and other airports.

Once the radio traffic levels get high even more information is missed. Also trainee pilots quickly get overloaded and miss things like right hand circuits at YSHL.

 

[skippydiesel]

1 minute ago, BurnieM said:

A discreet common Sydney area frequency is not likely to solve communications problems.

 

Just having Sydney Intl on this freq would create massive congestion as these departing flights are at high levels with transmissions covering a wide area.

 

Dropping out YSSY, Bankstown and Camden alone would create congestion for ShellHarbour and other airports.

Once the radio traffic levels get high even more information is missed. Also trainee pilots quickly get overloaded and miss things like right hand circuits at YSHL.

 

The "problem" at the moment is that aircraft using the same airspace can be on one of 5  frequencies - all legitimate. There is also a sixth legal option - no radio at all (crazy for congested airspace)

 

I don't see how being on one frequency, once out of circuit area (say 5 Nm and  500 ft above circuit height) within what could be called Greater Sydney Airspace (GSA marked on map) could possibly cause communication congestion.

 

The PIC could still turn to the CTAF for 10 Nm inbound calls, while monitoring GSA frequency (as I do now for Sydney Center/Area)

 

At the moment there is very very poor communication. I can be flying quite close to another aircraft - if required, unable to communicate. I guess I could go to Area and IF perchance they are monitoring, I could talk  but then I am also transmitting to every other aircraft & ATC,  for what may not be an urgent matter - not "a good look".

 

"Dropping out YSSY, Bankstown and Camden alone would create congestion for ShellHarbour and other airports." Please expand?????

 

"Once the radio traffic levels get high even more information is missed." Agreed to a point. What is worse, nil to minimal communication (as we have now) or the risk of congestion leading to the occasional "say again"?

 

"Also trainee pilots quickly get overloaded and miss things like right hand circuits at YSHL". Please expand????

 

😈

[BurnieM]

Airservices have setup areas, such as Taree to Port Macquarie, on a common frequency making these wide area CTAFs.

They are not CTAF plus a low level area frequency.

Also, none of these type of areas have combined uncontrolled and controlled airspace.

What you have suggested could be done but I am suggesting it would create even more congestion, misunderstandings and missed information.

 

 

"Once the radio traffic levels get high even more information is missed." Agreed to a point. What is worse, nil to minimal communication (as we have now) or the risk of congestion leading to the occasional "say again"?

 

- have a look at the volume of transmissions at Bankstown and Camden alone.

It is not 'the occasional "say again"'

 

 

"Also trainee pilots quickly get overloaded and miss things like right hand circuits at YSHL". Please expand????

 

This is already an intermittent problem at ShellHarbour.

Now increase the YSHL radio traffic by 2000% (not an exaggeration).

 

Edited 5 hours ago by BurnieM

[facthunter]

You can't go into, fly in, leave  or change a Level in CTA  without a clearance or be more than 2 mins out  with an ETA. Nev

[skippydiesel]

4 hours ago, BurnieM said:

Airservices have setup areas, such as Taree to Port Macquarie, on a common frequency making these wide area CTAFs.

They are not CTAF plus a low level area frequency.

Also, none of these type of areas have combined uncontrolled and controlled airspace.

What you have suggested could be done but I am suggesting it would create even more congestion, misunderstandings and missed information.

 

 

"Once the radio traffic levels get high even more information is missed." Agreed to a point. What is worse, nil to minimal communication (as we have now) or the risk of congestion leading to the occasional "say again"?

 

- have a look at the volume of transmissions at Bankstown and Camden alone. See below - not part of my proposal.

It is not 'the occasional "say again"'

 

 

"Also trainee pilots quickly get overloaded and miss things like right hand circuits at YSHL". Please expand????

 

This is already an intermittent problem at ShellHarbour.

Now increase the YSHL radio traffic by 2000% (not an exaggeration). I don't see where you get this from.

 

My suggestion explicitly described a Common Frequency (NOT a CTAF) above Circuit Height + 500ft, 3- 5 Nm circumference. This would only apply to The Oaks, Mittagong & Wedderburn. (possibly Shell Harbour) ie the current traffic communication conditions at the airfields you nominated would not be changed .

Bankstown & Camden are Controlled Airspace, what I am suggesting is a Common Frequency for the Non Controlled area.

 

😈