IBob

Okay. I was trying to raise what I see as valid points. But they are hard to explain, so I'll leave it.

Which part of finding is not worth anything?

Which bit, Facthunter???

That's not the case at all, Thruster: My aircraft (for instance) has a little lever that turns a ball valve. The 787 has a switch that provides at least 2 outputs (one for each switch position, Off or Run) and I would lay odds that those inputs go to automation logic that interprets the switch position and makes a decision regarding the fuel valves etc. That logic would also be trying to deal with fault conditions (both inputs on or both inputs off) and deciding what to do then. It is interesting that the switch is reported as taking place immediately after liftoff.......which is also when the logic switches from ground to flight mode. There also seem to be the general assumption that the FDR info is taken straight from the switch. And maybe it is, but it seems likely to me that it is taken after the logic has decided where the switch is.

Some may find it easier to read the preliminary report in it's original form. It also has some pics: https://aaib.gov.in/What's New Assets/Preliminary Report VT-ANB.pdf

This muddies the waters some: file:///C:/Users/OEM/Downloads/EASA_SIB_NM-18-33_1.pdf And how on earth is this, quote : 'not an unsafe condition that would warrant airworthiness directive (AD)' ????????

The prinicipal suggestions that come out of that would seem to be: 1. Due to their mechanical design, those switches cannot be accidentally tripped. 2. For the aircraft to behave as it did (without yawing) they would have to both be operated more or less simultaneously. I did freelance industrial automation work for over 30years. Much of it was quite straightforward, but over half of any program I wrote would be made up of 'what ifs'. That is, how the system should respond in the event of a failure of some part of the equipment or system. (And I always made a point of running that past the actual operators or end users, the reason being that they, not management, were usually the most knowledgeable when it came to the process.) So, those switches are not just a couple of switches wired to fuel valve. My guess would be there will be switches or contacts for both open and shut positions. And that will go to some sort of logic, which operates the valves. And aside from normal operation, the logic has to include what if power is lost to a switch or switches, what if a switch fails etc. Also under what other conditions (if any) are the fuel valves allowed to change state. It would be very interesting to see the actual switch arrangement, circuitry and logic...........

Can't remember exactly Skippy, but mine cost very little. They seem to be offered in various combinations, sometimes with other fittings, in little panels that I guess you bolt on your boat or whatever. I contacted the vendor and bought a panel with 2 USB units, discarded their panel and fitted them to mine. Full disclosure: I've never metered or scoped them to ensure they are behaving themselves. One normally powers my Samsung tablet with Ozrunways, the other my uAvionix Ping for ADSB-In.

I have a couple of USB panel mount marine chargers. I've had no trouble with them and they seem to do the job. Bought on NZ TradeMe, look like this:

ICP use the bobbin type shock mounts, top and bottom. But they can separate: I replaced one recently but I think it was originally mounted in a stressed (not straight) manner.

Yep......(now clearly labelled).....

The sad fact is that whistleblowers......in all walks of life.....generally do not fare well after the event.

So much hangs on this...for some very powerful organisations. One only hopes that we get an honest result.

I'm not, Brendan. I originally posted the above as a response to a post on the Air India thread...realising that, I then deleted it and reposted here. That's all.......

Moved this from the Air Indian crash thread because: There used to be a system for trains to pick mail up on the fly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catcher_pouch Which led to the joke about the guy in A & E: 'What happened to you, mate?' 'Well, I was just peeing out the window, and next I knew there was a mailbag on it................('

I bought an auto one (not Thermostasis), have seen them on Rotaxes, but decided not to instal it as they can fail closed: that is fail in the radiator bypass position. If installing one I would want to check the fail position.

I seem to recall they used to haul cattle around in old cargo Connies in S America..............

Here is how it went for our group of about 20 in the chamber: At 18,000' we all took our masks off and it was like being at a party where everyone has had a few beers (or something) and are thoroughly enjoying themselves. We were asked a few questions about the lecture we had had beforehand, nobody could much remember the details of that, but this was generally hilarious. Masks on and we went to 25'000, masks then off in pairs while everyone else watched. We had scratch pads and were to subtract 7 from 301, 7 from the result and so on. After about a minute you can't do it...but that's fine, you're happy to keep trying. Every minute or so the instructor holds a finger up in front of you, and you are to repeatedly to touch his finger, then your nose. After about a minute this becomes very difficult: you can touch his finger with a lot of weaving around, but you can't seem to accurately touch your nose, the best you can do is somewhere on your face. You are required to hold your arms out straight in front of you, and you can't maintain that: they go out, but then fall down and you repeatedly jerk them back up, they fall again: hypoxic flaps. It's all fine, but after about 2 mins (or hypoxic flaps, if sooner) you are told to put your mask back on. Whereupon your colour vision comes back, though you'd not noticed you had lost it. We had folk wouldn't put their masks back on, so far as they were concerned they were doing just fine despite being unable to do any of that above. And we had one outstanding example of target fixation: with the nose touching exercise, one of the group wouldn't let the instructor put his hand back down. Each time he tried to, she grabbed it and put it back up in front of her so she could continue trying to do it. Got very indignant about it too. Recovery is usually surprisingly rapid too once you get the mask back on. Though apparently some continue into hypoxia, and we had one of those needed extra oxygen for a bit. And we had one who apparently functioned fine at 25,000ft, and a smoker at that.

Insidious is exactly the right word. I attended one such course and what surprised me was there are no warning bells: nothing at all, in fact quite the opposite, it is euphoric and everything is just cruisy. That is in complete contrast to just about any other physical danger we may face and where we invariably experience a reflexive physical and/or mental alarm. And it explains, for instance, why a hypoxic diver (same problem) may happily just swim on down...

Okay, so it looks as though the recorder itself would function through a power outage, provided the cutover is seamless ( I would be surprised if it is not). I wonder what powers this lot. I guess my thought is that, while the FDR may continue to operate, in the event of a power loss there may be no data arriving for it to record.

Question: do the flight recorders have their own emergency power? And how much can they 'see' to record if other systems have lost power?? Yep, two questions again.........

Air India will get a pounding: an article I cannot now find explained how India's aviation authority is chronically undermanned with a very large proportion of positions (40%...50%???) unfilled.

Also on the Bing, you may want to check the idle throttle stop and idle jet settings. These are very simple static settings, just so many turns of a screw in each case. One of mine was out on a new Rotax, I think one idle jet, but I'm not now sure.

Hi Lyle, if the Bing is the same as on the Rotax, the 'choke' does nothing unless the throttle is fully closed. The reason is that it's not really a choke in the conventional sense, but a separate fuel circuit that delivers through a port only when the butterfly is closed. I had thought this would be common knowledge for Rotax owners, but you can still fish up 'how to start a Rotax' stuff on Youtube, from supposedly knowledgeable operators, where they crack the throttle open then pull on the choke...