turboplanner

Interested in what you had to say Pete, and that's worth further debate.

I agree that whatever the model, proper governance is the biggest priority, and the immediate priority before even that is to correct the audit defaults. Then there's some time to get it right.

I have AM397, and so far there has been no response, however there is a ladder of procedure laid down by the Australian Government to protect enquiries like that and I need to give it a few more days.

FH:

1. I said my figures were approximate - if people got serious of course you would debate the structure and get accurate costs.

2. Jesus you don't read do you - in no way am I suggesting an Association be run like a bloody aero club, and I'm not going to repeat once again my experience in Incorporated Associations, and dealing directly eyeball to eyeball with Ministers.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/two-men-escape-from-plane-crash/story-e6frf7kf-1226521663475

Another statistic, but good outcome

Good to see your comments John, they may have burnt you, but they only have ashes to show for their own cooking.

Powerin So...what needs to change if we the members cannot be trusted to vote in a competent board? Voter apathy is a fact of life, I believe, and we have to compensate for this somehow. Many non-profit boards (including one I am a member of) are ditching the idea of regional representation and concentrating hard on getting people with skills to volunteer. This is not as democratic....but I believe pure democracy has not served RAAus well. It is ironic that when we did finally vote in some people with skills, they didn't last long.This really is the crux of the matter. We need a skill-based board in governance, not management (management is employed by the board) and there are many board training opportunities available to make this happen. However, the elected board does not own the organisation - it governs it on behalf of its membership. How that membership contributes to the boards agenda, and tests the boards decisions, is clearly the missing link at present. This is about establishing a new governance process - I believe we must utilise the regional club network and be proactive in canvassing, and promoting, what is already beginning to take shape.

 

Pete

The RAA "Board" is not a Board of Directors, it's a Board of Management, and it's job is not as you say to "govern on behalf of the membership" it is to represent the Members, who own the organization, and manage the staff, applying the decisions and policies decided by the Members.

That is the strength of a voluntary or sporting body.

If you step out and form a limited liability Company, with a Board of Directors AND a paid management structure AND the managers employ staff to do the work, you have a model which costs considerably more to run, so which needs a constant income to cover overheads. The primary source of this income is usually Members' pockets, so I would expect members to be interested in what you seem to be promoting - a limited liability Company.

That is until they are told the cost, which I just very roughly estimated at an additional $184.00 per year per member to cover the additional staff, fees and employment benefits.

So a rough comparison of Membership subscriptions for the two models is:

Incorporated Association - membership subscription per year: $187.00

Limited Liability Company - membership subscription per year: $371.00

The disadvantage of using a limited liability company structure for a sporting operation is that it disconnects it's operations from the members.

By that, I mean that the shareholders usually are not interested in the fine points of making and selling toilet paper, or manufacturing a range of products; their interest is in buying shares that steadily increase in value for a capital gain, and if possible provide a dividend as spending money.

As a result, the Directors usually have a free hand as to how to go about making profit to achieve this. They can decide to enter new markets, or they can even decide to get out of existing markets and completely change the operation, and they can do this without any input from the shareholders, or in this case Members.

I can just imagine the Directors sitting around reviewing the last Natfly and deciding that since the rag and tube brigade couldn't even mount a display, that interest had died, they were a financial burden and noisy anyway, and making a decision to drop them and focus on those other thingys, the real ones.

So that's where the Incorporated Association has the advantage; you own it, you run it.

The current slide over the last couple of years is not related to the structure of the organization, it is related to a little clique doing their own thing in secrecy - in fact much like a company.

Members just need to take back control and vote in some skill.

If that IS what Thomas Jefferson said, he said it in remarkably modern English compared to most of his other statements - English that wasn't around at the time - and it was an extraordinary statement for someone who was one of the founders of the push for ex British immigrants to democratically break from Britain and introduce democracy to their own new Country.

This problem, like many others currently existing and just waiting to be 'found' by another crisis, has been brewing for many years. I am very familiar with the RA AUS organisation having been involved in it as a early member of the AUF, crash investigator, RA-AUS flying instructor, etc. I have many of the past and present senior staff and Board members. I wish to say to everyone please do not 'shoot the messenger' or else you make it very hard for individual staff and Board members to implement difficult change. The organisation is very able to take on administration of the RA-AUS and LSA sectors but will need to spend money to ensure improvements to its governance capability. All members just need to support this over the next few years and must be prepared to fund it by small increases in membership and other fees. Alan Middleton 0407356948 BluewaterAirport.com

What messenger? What message?

Disproved by the WORD science, I'd agree.

The full rule is "i" before "e" except after "c" when pronounced "ee"

That narrows down the exceptions by a few thousand more.

I before E except after C? Disproved by science.

...a bit more of a clue?

You just cooked the Minister for Transport if that was true Volksy;he's allowing it to happen and its his duty of care that safe systems are in place and one of those safe systems is an effective learning regime from accidents to ensure a reducing level.

This is dreamland stuff; are the members really going to let Tizzard loose on complicated paperwork?

Thought you were talking about cervix

With a major sex change that goes wrong?

Hi Qwerty!

Well this latest situation must have sharpened up the office a lot. I passed my cross country flight test and exam on Friday morning. Bill must have faxed or emailed the paperwork for me when he got home before lunch....lo and behold my new endorsed licence turned up in the mail today.....holy crap that was super fast....so the office girl is certainly on top of things and I thank her for that

Just finished reading "Made in America" by Bill Bryson who chronicles most of the new words coming into American English since about the 1500's.

This is the book which compares center with centre etc. and has all the surprises about so-called "American" accent and spelling which really is the older English version.

So what did they call you FH?

A real get up and go person!

" know a thing about aircraft because they...........

"......747, what sort of Ultralight thingy is that?" he asked.

"It isn't" said Brine "and do you realise you've now grounded most of the world's airlines. is is a matter of safety?"

"Safety? On NO you silly thing" said the slighly effeminate member of the leadership (sic).

It was still a sedate climber.

.......a copy of "Stamps for the Connoseur" written in 1728 and worth $150,000.00 - enough to buy him a Rotract engined anything.

"I don't get it" said Brine as he shoved a spitball down the Rat's pitot tube "why don't we...................."

....and you need CURRENCY Ballpoint.

Hadn't done paddock cleanup for two or three years and was burning timber yesterday and my natural caution wasn't where it usually is.

Picked up a length of timber, but the fire had crept along underneath it.

I was holding the time, thought "what's that", then realised by finger were burning - blisters on every finger now.

A classic case of failing the REACT phase.