turboplanner

There is a budget, as the previous post I made (which gave cause to at least one complaint against me, as previously identified) and there is regular actuals reporting to the board by the treasurer/CEO however they are not for public consumption as I recall...hence my suggestion that you discuss with the CEO/President.

Under those circumstances interim figures out in the public arena shouldn't be a problem if all members are engaged in all discussions as they should be.

There's an extensive thread on prune, including opinions on RAA, and reports of residents getting annoyed by constant low level flights over the town.

....to hear more about the Rat's ancestors."

"Funny you should say that" said Turbo, "because I have been very busy travelling Australia in search of the truth"

He had left Melbourne shortly after Christmas, with a tail of two ASIO operatives in a Toyota Yaris close behind.

On the date of the last post ( something army people are fond of just when everyone is asleep) by Ratso, he was deep inside the dark surrounds of Far Central Queensland, where running water usually comes out of cattle, and Motels are maintained true to their 1960's origins.

Skirting the wrong side of Townsville (the last thing he wanted was to be accosted by Madge on the five dollar street), he pushed on the Cardwell, just south of Mission Beach, which astute readers will remember was where he had seen the very rare Snow Leopard a couple of years ago.

He was on the trail of the 1848 exploration expedition of Edmund Kennedy who left from Rockingham Bay.

Kennedy's aim was to get from here to the tip of Cape York, apparently unaware that the boat fare was only four guineas.

He took with him Jacky Jacky, and aboriginal with an advanced stutter.

As those of us who have been to school know ( and the writer accepts that excludes all the people north of the Brisbane Line and south of Launceston), Kennedy is alleged to have been speared by blacks, and Jacky Jacky made an almost impossible trip back to the supply ship with the story.

When in FNQ some years ago Turbo had heard rumours of a different story, and this was what he was trying to uncover.

Turbo eventually found the site where Kennedy was alleged to have been speared; It was covered in bully beef and Mother cans where successive generations of four wheel drivers had also made their pilgrimage to the site, but after several hours searching, Turbo found the ragged remains of Kennedy's coat, with the unmistakable hole from a musket ball through the breast.

"Who would shoot Kennedy, and why?" he asked himself, but as he widened the search of this site of National importance, hanging from the thorns of a waitawhile vine he saw the faded blue of a torn uniform, unmistakable that of one of Cookie's soldiers.

There was only one answer, and that was..............

That's exactly how it works with Bull Bars on trucks downunder; the statistics are so compelling that the bigger fleets deleted them.

Great job by the pilot, but a pity ATSB couldn't spend a few minutes on this one establishing the cause.

Maybe a hose blew, maybe the cap was left off, maybe the fire started in the air etc. and we would have some practical lessons to learn from

It's an aviation accident (fatal) so have ATSB investigate and we WILL get a report!

.....the silence of the lambs............

No problems going to 4 seat/1500 kg, just increase the training to GA standard for PPL, external testing, GA PPL medical etc.

That would improve the standard over where it is now for the lighter end.

Then introduce a lower level for the genuine rag and tube section.

Problem is Frank, this is a Police investigation, and they will not be able to.

.....and the CEO went to the Wide Bay airshow.

If both aircraft did clip power lines, let us hope these power lines were strung between two 500'+ mountains.

Sorry, just changed my vote to "like it". I'd missed the column over on the RHS - easier to use that the default.

Just had a look on computer rather than I phone and I think the forums will be buried by photos and general aviation news, and I only found a few recent posts rather than the new posts of the day. For someone who just comes on where there is a break in activities it might be harder to get to subject matter.

This is one of the problems with Facebook and its rolling wall. A lot of discussions just disappear off the screen before anyone notices them, so discussions are much more sporadic.

You can see from the twists and turns of this thread why governments are getting out of prescribing offences and penalties and leaving it up to those involved to sort it out financially.

What I've been trying to get across for several years, with apparently very little success is that AustralianGovernments came to this conclusion in the mid 1980's.

They would appoint Health Inspectors who would go around inspecting restaurants, be given cups of coffee and escorted around the dirty parts, sign an approval certificate and next week someone would get food poisoning, and the inspector would get the blame.

Today no new legislation is required for "selfies" or the next fad, the victims just sue the stupid. Easy.

Gradually the stupid get training, get the message and the situation improves. It doesn't matter if they make a habit of breaking the rules;when something goes wrong there they are in the spotlight with no one else to blame but themselves.

Well I'd have to admit there doesn't seem to be a charisma in sight currently.

Unfortunately politics isn't as simple as a pretty face. The cross section of portfolios is huge, the amount of policies and decisions required for the heavy flow of legislation requires a very wide-view absorption ability, and the ability to be able to motivate many people to prepare it, and many opposition members to believe in it and ease it through, in order to get a result which gets a strong support from voters. That hasn't happened in recent years.

If Labor don't step up and offer something more than "we're not the LNP" they could still lose the next one. Abbott is gone, that's almost a certainty, he's a rat turd in their custard right now. But if they have Turnbull/Bishop as leader, remove Hockey from Treasury and think up some new policies, they could still unsink the ship.

the LNP at the moment seems to be a party tearing itself apart.http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-03/nt-chief-minister-giles-refuses-to-quit-after-leadership-coup/6065200

Don't worry Scre, brand new ones always have teething problems and quite often engine electrics/ fuel issues, such as forgetting to take the tape off the fuel cap breather.

Interesting, I think we concluded a seat rail killed someone in a C172 in Australia about a year ago, so the seats haven't been fixed?

TP now your talking about someone deliberately breaking regsHow is that relevant?

Debate here is around absurdity of the regs not if we follow them or not.

 

So CASA now doesnt have the funds to prepare data upon which to deliver consistant regulation?

 

Are you suggesting they recieve more funding to do it correctly? id suggest even CASA wouldnt be brave enough to make that claim.

 

The Jabiru debarcle hasnt cost them much. Didnt even spend man hours reviewing data or it seems reading responses didnt burn much time either.

 

The meeting with Jabiru before announcement was cancelled.

 

The risk management section must have been too busy to run through safety outcome scenarios.

 

Acting director sure didnt spend much time looking at cost, complexity, consitancy and communications process.

 

Forsyth report is stuffed in bottom drawer somewhere, remains unread too

 

Few seem to be discussing the massive effect that this will have on future investment in Aus aviation.

 

Who would spend time developing or certifying products for AU market if it can be withdrawn or similarly limited.

 

Most know confidence drives risk and investment.

In the excitement of the attacks, one of the original reasons for his award seems to have been forgotten.

From memory I think he is Patron of 1800 Australian organizations, that is 1800 Australian organizations involving tens of thousands of people chose Prince Phillip to be their patron.

If he was just thanking them for their AGM reports, that would involve signing about seven letters a day, something I could do without, and I'm sure he would have been involved in other work where he was interested.

So it's really a harmless "Thank You" from Australia.

It certainly wasn't the smartest strategic political move around, I'd agree, and it has had consequences.

If we are to accept (and I do give some credence to Turb's point that it potentially opens up a new battlefront in the war between the legal profession and the operators of aircraft since lawyers will try on anything in order to win a case) that there is any validity at all to the argument that 'over-representation' in statistics should be taken as justification for the imposition of restrictions, then I believe that there should be deep concern by many aircraft operators as to where they might be placed in the case of a serious accident.In fact, CASA has placed itself in an extremely vulnerable position and once a few people in CASA start to consider the flow-on implications of what it has done, I suspect it will be scrambling to cover its derriere. It has taken one factor in crash statistics - engine failure - and made a determination that, for reasons of 'safety', limitations on operation should be imposed on a particular engine that is 'over-represented' in the statistics. Let's, for the sake of this discussion, put the question of the accuracy of those figures aside and look at the philosophy of the imposition of the limitations.

 

CASA's argument is that Jabiru-engined aircraft have a greater than average potential for injury/fatality of passengers, solo student pilots and people below the flight path. As it happens, that potential has absolutely not been realised in 25 years of Jabiru aircraft / engine operations. We can rule out the 'danger to people below the flight path' as a problem, since it has yet to happen for recreational (and I believe also GA light, though some accidents have come perilously close) operation.

 

However, we cannot ignore fatalities/serious injury to aircraft operators/passengers. I believe that we can rule out CFIT accidents as obviously not airframe/engine induced. However, there is a large area of aerodynamic / structural deficiencies that have lead to fatalities / serious injuries in some aircraft that are well outside the 'statistical average'. Ironically, Jabiru aircraft are probably the 'gold standard' in terms of occupant safety, with a seriously good statistical base for that calculation.

 

I do not need to identify makes and models of RAA / GA light aircraft that figure too prominently in the fatality/serious injury statistics, we know them. Since CASA has determined to make an example of Jabiru for its engine statistics in the name of 'safety', how well could it stand up in Court if it does not make at the least similar determinations for specific makes/models of aircraft that have a demonstrated - not potential - fatality/injury rate that is greater than the 'gold standard'?

 

Someone in CASA Legal is going - eventually - to recognise just how far out on a limb CASA has placed itself if it does not apply the precedent it has created to other aircraft, where the statistics are incontrovertible.

 

Therefore, we would be silly to imagine (or gloat over, if that floats your boat) the fact that Jabiru has been singled out for attention is a good thing: this action is so transparently the thin edge of a wedge that anybody with a functioning intelligence should be able to see that it bodes extremely badly for the future of Recreational aviation (at the least).

The current situation you describe is also a little like the guy who's been pulled over by police for speeding and argues with the cop about all the others who are speeding. No one has the resources to address every aspect of their operation, so they target what the CAN handle.

The statistics and "gold standard" you talk about are interesting, but the statistics we've seen published are all over the place, some incorporating RPT level hours, and where there should be identical figures coming out of RAA, CASA, and ATSB there are not, so until we get to that point your suggestion of a cutoff level based on statistics is meaningless, and I'd suggest the three bodies are going to plead lack of funding to give you what you want.

Theres a big difference between making a mistake or an accident and being negligent.

It seems to me that you are implying that if you make a mistake, or have an accident, that's not negligence, however if you have a read of Donoghue V Stevenson, it's clear that the manufacturer/supplier had no deliberate intent to make the buyer ill.

Not understanding the difference could be putting you at risk, so I would strongly recommend you go and see a PL lawyer, to get a detailed explanation which could change your life.

It appears your equalising the risk of an accident whilst flying low and fast amongst powerlines and water with a Jabiru powered aircraft stopping and injuring innocent bystanders.

I'm saying that CASA has introduced some new restrictions, and people don't seem to be comprehending that we have a different ball game which is more complicated than it used to be, and more difficult to protect ourselves from financial risk.

I understand your line that the risk of an engine failure is no different than it was before, but that's a different subject.

None of the information I'm posting on this thread is legal advice, and anyone is free to disagree with it and I've stressed several times on this forum the importance of going to see a Public Liability specialist lawyer to get advice.