turboplanner

8 hours ago, walrus said:

I was idly thinking of attending the Birdsville races by air - Covid permitting.

 

‘’I noticed a thread on another aviation website criticizing the shire council for prohibiting under wing camping apparently on liability grounds. There was talk of an appeal to the council…

 

‘’When I looked at the Birdsville races website, the reason the council has banned under wing camping is obvious - money!

 

The Council bastards have partnered with a commercial tent mob and want $520 for a single person tent in their camp ground for visitors coming by air!

 

http://www.rentatent.com.au/rentatent/events/view/71

 

I have started a list of places not to visit and Birdsville is now the second entry, after YMMB.

What's wrong with YMMB?

1 hour ago, skippydiesel said:

 

Political "heads" of departments are forever putting pressure on the bureaucrats (including CHO's) to move in one direction or another, supress/highlight information, "toe the party line" .  Most if not all, department heads are political appointees beholden to their political masters. - I dont believe for a moment, that Gladys & her gang are acting any differently.

 

The buck stops with Gladys & Scomo - I for one would be pleased to see them go - now.

 

As for "Australia is one of the most successful countries in the world at managing this pandemic" give me a brake -True we have been  very very lucky, our success is mainly due  good luck -  we are an island continent.- not good management This fact alone as allowed the slow often inappropriate and insufficient response, of our collective Governments, to be mitigated.

 

Our federal government is supposed to be responsible for our national security (in this context health), set national strategy in response to external/internal threats. Provide support & guidance to responding agencies. For goodness sake we didn't even know who was responsible for authorising the entry of infected cruise liner passengers (turns out it was delegated somehow to NSW department of agriculture - who would have believed it, they didn't) - Scomo????

I can’t help you Skippy you are on a dream cruise. NSW is in. State Of Emergency with a Commander, the CHO.

46 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

What made you think I was politicising the matter - I am just highlighting gross incompetency, driven by a false precept, which may owe its origins to political ideology but I care not a fig for that.

 

Even the Romans knew how to handle a pandemic.Our present leaders (I care not what their political allegiance is) have been slow to accept the lessons of history and the council of scientists in the field.

 

Most of our state leaders have belatedly come to some understanding - swift, decisive/hard action must be taken - Gladys & Scomo were out back of the dunny, having a fag, when that bit of information was being absorbed by everyone else

 

Why do a hatchet job on Gladys & Scomo?- simple they are the captains of their respective teams/the front person, so they cop the blame when all turns to sh-t. 

 

From the outset the people who really understood the problem have said we must treat the pandemic as a war (against CV19) - when a country is on a war footing,certain civil liberties are suspended for the duration (few complain). Not us! We allow demonstrations by the antivax brigade to take place. Do I care that they may all get infected? No! I do care that when the protesters go back homes they may infect a lot of innocent people who do not deserve to be so assaulted.

Neither Gladys or Scomo are the CHO.

There's been no gross incompetency from any of our CHOs; Australia is one of the most successful countries in the world at managing this pandemic

57 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

AND only locked down the burbs.

Not those in their affluent harbourside mansions.

Not a sign of WuFlu in that area !.

Did the same happen in Melbourne? .

spacesailor

Perhaps they read the rules.

The Health officers have a complex formula which, combined with testing thousands of people, gives them a good prediction where the hotspots are and where they are likely to spread. That decides whether to lock down a town, a region, a whole city or a whole State.

Because the Delta strain spreads on the wind and not just on the droplet trajectory, people are catching it outside as well as inside, so we have to adjust our learning a little bit more and increase the spacing and walk away from restaurants and venue where there's a crowd.

5 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

So the people  in that bubble will be the ONLY ones to die. ( outer suburbs ). .

It would never happen in the wealthy area !.

Just imagine the land size of those rich  mansions, with their multymillion dollar price tags.  Being emptied! .

Lots of area for massive ' low income flats ' for workers,  great views.

spacesailor

 

No, it's more likely they'll just keeping driving to their favourite nightclubs and restaurants making it an impossible task for the Health Dept unless some very firm ation takes place.

"........hold the camera, as he does so well in all his wildlife productions wuth the exceptions of where numerous lions, bears, elephant etc had to be shot to save the silly old bugger's life.

"The shooter was CT from DG and dave only had the camera rolling to show how inhumane rabbit shooting was. In fact the building in the photo, disguised as a church shows the homestead of CT's grandfather and the firing slots where CT's grandfather exterminated a whole tribe of .....................

1 hour ago, skippydiesel said:

What about vaccination you say?

 

Well the polies are all clamoring for more vaccinations to be available/administered but I have my doubts:

I think the NSW call for vaccination doses from the other States to be sent to NSW might have been a panic move poorly thought out. The Astrazenica vaccine reaches full effectiveness 40 days after the 12 week second dose, and there will be people dying in Sydney by then; You would just be slightly reducung the death rate. Better to lock down bubbles very hard so it stops spreading.

4 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

First ; My apologies, to that part of Australia, outside the Greater Sydney Area, impacted by the inept performance of our NSW Government, for their failure to contain the CV19 delta virus.

 

Lockdown! What lockdown (in NSW)?

 

Good old Gladys (Scomos best buddy) tried (not very hard) to contain the virus by basically asking people to voluntarily isolate.

Yea Gads - we all knew about Delta and the need for swift decisive action but nooooo Gladys had the Gold Standard to maintain, with Scomo cheering in the background (what a pair!)

Skippy, most of us worked out in March last year that when a State of Emergency is declared by a government, the government steps back and an experienced commander takes over; exactly the same as when bushfires cause a SOE.

So no point trying to make it a political issue. Gladys was just giving the news as the other Premiers have.

Once you uderstand that, then you can look at the different approaches by the States.

In Victoria a lockdown is triggered when a complicated equation shows the our medical facilities including a dedicated Covid hospital would reach their capacity, so lockdowns are called early, when a lot of FB and Channel 9 commentators can't see why, but we've beaten down some big waves including a Delta.

Sydney people have kept on making headlines from the Bondi Beach display onwards, and this just had to happen. 

The CHO was probably trying to get a balance between reasonable compliance and people ignoring a lock down, and, with the benefit of hindsight she blew it. You could see the south west falling and the spread north as the Mayors jumped on the Today show arguing to let people keep working becauise they "had to put food on the table".

36 minutes ago, KRviator said:

5 deaths, but 87 cases of severe clotting... 

I guess that's ok if you're not one of those 92 people...Given a relative had severe clotting and was on anticoagulants for it for the rest of their life to prevent a potential repeat. For a pilot, if you hold a Class 1, you can only fly Multi-Crew, so no more taking your family for a jolly on the weekend, or an evening sunset flight around Sydney. No ferrying a 182 or Chieftain by yourself, you'll always need a (rated) Coey...

For my Cat 1 Rail Medical (virtually equivalent to a Class1), if the treatment is deemed stable, you can be issued a medical, having been deemed Fit for Duty, Subject to Review but typically only for a 12 month (not 5 year) period, but there's no guidance on what would actually be deemed stable - so I might lose my medical for a year or two until that occurs.

 

I think I'll take my chances with Covid for the moment. Out here in regional NSW I'm more at risk of dying in the RV than catching Covid at present, and until that risk/reward balance significantly changes I can't see that mindset changing either.

A Couple of weeks ago the Victorian media was full of outraged regional peope who were complaining aoubt their businesses being shut down when they are so far away from Melbourne, and "covid is never going to come out here" Within a couple of days the Delta strain had zapped towns right through Victoria wit record numbers f people lining up for testing in Mildura.

So far two airlines have spread it into regional NSW.

With what you outlined, I'd be getting the Pfizer, especially since NSW seems to have blown it with people just not understanding what their obligations in a lockdown are.

..........."vile hunter" but Dave quickly denied having ever hunted anything, which was technically true, and the Mirror mindfull of protecting any Pom from the days when they used to pinch bread and shoes and get sent to Australia, wrote a second piece listing Dave's history with animals, and although they had to leave a couple of things out, cemented his reputation.

That was destroyed the next day when News of the World hired a couple of "Royal Watcher" journalists who were expert in taking an innocent event and turning it into a devastating scandal headlined with "BUNNYXXXXXX" in font size second only to announcing WW2.

Cappy was shocked, and put on his EP of "God Save the King", and suitably pumped up after six playings, started to write a letter to NOW, starting with: "As a descendant of Captain James Cook, Royal Navy, I .............................

........get into trouble I must turn this camera off, but by a million to one, during the editing the sequence and his comment were left in.

The Daily Mirror proclaimed .................

1 hour ago, spacesailor said:

Now those Commie,s have gone, the  BEAUROCRATES HAVEtaken their place.

Transaviea! . GONE as with ALL inventive Australia producs, " not here !. buy American  ".

Why roads .. JUST LOOK AT  $ MULTI,MILLIONS THEY TAKE OFF THE SUFFERING MOTORIST,

TOLLS Are big business.

spacesailor

Coastal Ships vs Rail vs Road are commercial decisions in Australia.

Successful rail operations are:

• Ore transport from mine to port in WA
• Coal from mine to port in the Bowen Basin in Queensland
• Container freight from Melbourne to Perth.

The Melbourne to Perth train is privately owned. Locos pull a Kitchen/lounge/bunk car and tanker. The train doesn't stop. The drivers do their shifts, rec and sleep on board and the locos refuel on the run.

11 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Turbo - You certainly know your HGV stuff but as an occasional driver of 40 years, all I can tell you is that the view/visibility from a forward control (cab over) beats the heck out of the conventional/long bonnet style.

I agree with you there, but you learn something all the time. I was trialling a new Cab over Prime Mover with Murray Goulburn on milk tankers. I gave the driver a couple of weeks to get used to it and then went out with him for the day's pickups. After the second dairy where, between the dairy and the house we'd just driven up one lanes bordered by 3PL farm machinery then reversed the trailer around into another lane to back it up to the dairy I sais "How do you like the forward visibility compared to the bonneted trucks." He said " You get your judgement after about a week in the bonneted truck then they're mutch the same."  Fpr most applications where people can be walking across, and cars passing you on the left, they are the better choice.

11 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

As far as suspension goes - very limited experience of either designs on really rough roads - so find the ride comparable.

It's not the rough roads, but the harmonics on highways.

11 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Spent  6 months helping a mate out with a hot mix semi - mostly in north Sydney. Prim mover a conventional KW - bloody awful in those very tight streets and the way cars would pass & cut in, complexly disappear under the bonnet - no chance of seeing if they were braking - just terrifying.

Yes, wrong application for the KW, and ideal for Cab overs with short wheelbase. Peope buy a cheap second hand prime mover, but a tipper body on it, so get a low prime cost. A lot of them are costed for a single contract, but the driver suffers.

.....froze as CT lined up on a bunny with the 50 call and BOOMBBoomBboomb came the echo from the hills, and there was a little cloud of pink about a kilometre away which ...........

1 hour ago, Thruster88 said:

The long wheel base conventional truck argument may have been valid in the dark ages, now short wheel base cab over euro trucks like volvo with their excellent cab suspension have same or better ride and quietness. They can also tow longer trailers within the regs for an extra two pallet$ or have room for a big battery. 

        Not sure how swapping out that $120k battery is going to work in the real world, who owns it if it goes bad?

        Should the government mandate the type of vehicles we drive and fly or should they stick to things like a covid vaccine rollout? 

I left the harmonics out for simplicity on ride, but we currently have a serious fatigue issue with over the road trucks; a lot of extra drivers dying compared with about 25 years ago.

The two extra pallets was a sad story. We got an agreement to extend overall length to provide enough space for long wheelbase bonneted trucks, crarying 2500 litres fuel and a decent size sleeper. When the lengths were extended, someone forgot to limit the pin to tri dimension and the trailer manufacturers extended their length and filled the hole with two pallets. Worse, they pushed the gooseneck forward about half a pallet on drop frames to get a minute gain in cubic which created a nightmare with rear swing radius, so you either had a hang up between chassis ends and landing legs at legal axle loadings or you had to overload the drive by about half a tonne and move the fifth wheel forward creating a swing clearance problem and shortening the sleeper. Which is why we're seeing cab overs on long distance route. There's been some talk lately about correcting it.

1 hour ago, skippydiesel said:

Ugly trucks - a nice cab over/forward control (eg Scania) would have looked the futuristic part so much better.

This isn't a manufacturer's product Skippy, just an old W model Kenworth where someone has pulled the diesel out, bolted an electric motor, batteries and some controls, and it's a genuine electric truck. The leyout is not much different to the electric fork lift trucks we used to build in Australia in the 1960s.  I did the same in 2004, shipping two trucks to a US supplier who pulled the engines out, bolted an electric motor to the transmission, fitted batteries and they were fitted with pumps and hoses and used airside for pumping fuel from the apron tanks into airliners.

The bonneted truck design is for long distance work, reducing fatigue by placing the driver within the wheelbase where the vertical movement is less than the front suspension movement. In a cabover trick like the Scania, the vertical movement is greater than the front suspension movement because the driver is in cantilever which gives that extra flick. The diffenence, even in a small truck is around 40 mm, and if you multiply that by a few hundred thousand times on a Melbourne-Brisbane leg, it makes a big difference to the fatigue level.

5 hours ago, Munger said:

Just a quick clarification: We have two issues here...

 

1) The (green) councilors have voted a budget in that changed the fee structure of Lismore Airport (now $12.40 per landing) and removed an annual landing pass. This is what has driven Izaac's costs up by 3000%

 

2) We have an 'Reduce Aircraft Noise Over Lismore And Surrounding Areas' group, started during Covid by a retired school teacher who moved here from Sydney about a year ago.

 

The first one is typical Lismore: Yes, we want your business, no we won't help you: Now pay up! As long as we have financially inept counselors (last 25 years), we are never going to shake this...

 

The second is a bit more problematic in the long run: There is a professional people exodus from Lismore to Ballina. Hey, in the 90's we used to fly from Lismore to Ballina to get some quiet circuit time, now they come to Lismore because it's so busy over there. This has given rise to the Judith's in our community and some (IMHO) very irrational world views. You know the people I mean: 'You can't train pilots, but I expect the Air Ambulance to take me to Sydney when I need it'.

I don't think you've mentoned what the structure of Lismore is: Council owned? Council managed? Privately owned and managed?

This makes a difference, but you may have given a hint a few posts ago about "having more important things to do" 

If the aviators want to fly but don't want to manage costs or deal with people who don't understand that flying involves noise, but reasonable noise then this is eventually what you get.

1. Any operation has to cover its costs, so the question here is have the costs increased to the point where charges need to increase and if so why.

   That might seem obvious, but in plenty of cases Councils allocate costs unfairly to cover something they've caused. One case I know of is a Community Hub with a road and a bridge requested by a local agitator group, the road and bridge to save them 1 minute 98 seconds driving time at a cost of around $15 million, with that cost offset by a general slug of about $300.00 in rates across the community that will never use it. If it's something like that which has increased the costs the "busy" aviators need to focus on what is important to them and do something to stop it. I'm currently doing 3 am starts to address 5 different Planning issues in two Councils.

In this case if you snooze you lose.

If the Lismore cost increases relate to over-development of the site - some members can't help themselves asking for more and more - what could be dropped to avoid those increases while still being able to fly economically.

2. The noise issue should have been addressed by the aviators when it was first raised, and either Councillors advised it was a necessary part of an Airport, or if it was caused by a 182 leaving with WOT at 5 am each day, doing something about him. This is where the airfield beat ups, and 500 feet runs over the town which seem to be such fun for some people, put the whole lot out of business. I'm not saying that has happened at Lismore, just to do the basic checks first.

"Amenity" is a planning term.   In a Residential Zone there are rules which make it liveable and loosely you have an expectation that your amenity will not be interrupted by factories with angle grinders starting up at 7 am, trucks being loaded with freight, and so on.  You can take an Amenity issue to Council and they will act on it.

When they make a decision, they look at the Residential Zone and what uses are permitted, the Airfield and what is permitted in its Zone.

In the case which Keith Page raised, where there was an airport, then people built houses around it and complained about the noise, they look at Existing Use Rights.

It's one thing to start a petition and make a lot of noise in Council and even get a vote up in Council, but quite another to achieve the same result at an administrative appeals tribunal where the people are professionals. At that point, if you've done your homework, they will weigh the loss of Res Amenity against the Existing Use Right.

I've seen a Petition in Scotland with 120,000 signatures from around the world including mine drop like a hot rock during the planning process - facts count a lot more.

So you've got a lot of work for those "busy" aviators to do.

1 hour ago, Keith Page said:

Trucks fit into this category.

Imagine an electric B-Double, Brisbane to Darwin.

OR Is that why there is talk about inland rail?

Interestingly the two trial elecric trucks I've been following for about four years are currently parked, and it looks like range is the biggest issue. As you can imagine, when you screw on the load masses we permit in Australia, it uses up a heap of power.

The Brisbane to Darwin run is a fascinating one where the Prime Movers can be lightweight to carry more and start out in Brisbane with two, three or four Metro Prime movers pulling B Doubles or singles or a combination to Brisbane hubs to pick up freight, then two Prime Movers pull two B Double sets up to Toowoomba, where another Prime Mover has been picking up freight with a single 45 foot trailer.

Then in the coupling years the long distance Prime Mover is coupled with an A Trailer, A Trailer, B trailer, Converter dolly and B Trailer and lastly another Converter dolly and 45 footer.

So the operator is burning 1/5 the fuel he used to burn in the semi trailer days, and only has one driver to worry about instead of five.

Even with the long distance from Brisbane to Darwing a train can't get anywhere near the door to door speed and cost.

The inland rail project has been going for 40 years. Every decade or so some new consortium gets together and has a go, but the numbers don't seem to stack up. 

1 hour ago, pmccarthy said:

VCAT would be a last resort. If it got that far, you have done something wrong in the community. Every activity has its crazy opponents, but a reasonable council will know that. 

I just had a quick look through the MRSC Draft Kyneton Airfield Master Plan 2019

All the words have special meaning in Planning Terms. These would be the red flags for me.

Aviation Suppor Factilities

   General Use Business Hub

   45 m setback from runway

   7 m height limit

   9 m height limit

Guideline A Managing Noise

   Noise level exceeding Contours for 60, 65, 70 dB(A)

PSA (Public Safety Area)

   Risk level 1 in 100,000

Community Hub

   To attract more groups to airport

AEO (Airport Environs Overlay)

   Industrial Businesses

   Warehousing

Development Guideline

   Setbacks and heights

      25 m from runway - 5 m height limit

      35 m from runway - 7 m height limit

      45 m from runway - 9 m height limit

Will utilise Special Use Zone

DDOZ (Design and Development Schedule 2

  Will revise the existing DDO2

Secondary Noise Metric Analysiswill be undertaken

AEO2 Schedule Area remapped

Council has published an Operations Manual

2021 - Exhibit a planning Scheme Amendment to rezone 8 Rawson Place site SUZ and apply revised DDO and AEO overlays.    

1 hour ago, pmccarthy said:

Whatever the approach, the reality is that council will reflect the views of residents. So, while legal precedence may be useful, a good relationship with residents and council is essential. That includes consideration of any ongoing costs, noise mitigation,community benefit and so on. It is the same in the mining industry, it doesn't matter how good your legal title might be, you have to work hard to maintain your social license to operate.

You wouldn't take it to VCAT?

.........the Common Rabbit has made its home in the thousands by mating at every opportunity. Here we see a pair about to .. BANG!. Er well er, I don't think we can use that shot Roger.

As we look down the glen we can see a pair of sandy coloured rabbits start...BANG!

I think we might go over this hill and..BANG! GET OUT OF THE WAY YOU POMMY XXXX!!!.

Dave looked down at the dead rabbit giving its last kick. "That's not right: he said to CT who was sitting in a hide eating chololate basrs as he shot. "What?" he asked mving across to the 50 cal. BOOMOOMoomoom! the souhnd echoed across the valley and a bunny became just a cloud of pink vapour that drifted away on the breeze.

"You shouldn't have shot that Rabbit" said Dave indignantly. "What rabbit?" replied CT and................

18 minutes ago, APenNameAndThatA said:

From what Turbo said, you need to get competent legal advice ASAP and before you do anything. In my limited experience, you need a senior lawyer, with the right expertise, who really does know what they are talking about. Also in my limited experience, if you get advice from the lawyer and proceed on your own, your fees are reasonable. If you get the lawyer to go off and do things, or, worse still, have people communicate with the lawyer, fees get stupid and utility deteriorates fast. 

It all depends what is actually happening. At this stage the OP hasn't told us.

If the Concil wants to come up with a Master plan, or change the Zoning, or change the Use, the starting point is a Planning Consultant. then he/she may kick it up to planning Lawyers.

21 minutes ago, pmccarthy said:

Have a look at this document, which has since been adopted by council with some amendments. It may be a model for what is needed.

https://www.mrsc.vic.gov.au/files/assets/public/council/news/your-say/draft-kyneton-airfield-master-plan-2019.pdf

 

That's what I was warning about before. A Master Plan is usually a "start again" Plan. It can go well or badly depending on whether developers are involved. If you participate you're usually starting with what's acceptable to the residents that live around the Airport today, so discussions get started on start/finish times, noise levels, noise of cars coming to the airport etc. and you usually won't hear a word about all the warnings to people building around it.

8 minutes ago, Bill said:

How do you determine whether "the airport has Existing Use Rights under the Planning Sheme"?  Thanks,  Bill

1. Find out when the airfield first started.

2. Find out which City or Shire its in

3. Find the Department which handles Planning in NSW

4. Within the Department website there will be Planning Schemes you can download> Search for Shire or City of XXXX planning Scheme

5. Download the planning Scheme .pdf file

6. Search for Existing Use Rights. There should be a definition there somewhere. If it has different meanings in different Zones find our what Zone the Airport is, usually on the Department's website in Online Maps or similar description. When you put in the address i.e. say 526 Main Road Mainsville (not Lismore Airport), a map will come up showing the airport and you will see the zones or can switch the map to show them.

You can then check "Existing Rights in a Farm Zone etc) if the Existing rights vary by zone.

7. If Existing Rights don't come up in your local Planning Scheme, then Search for Existing Rights Definition on the main Deoartment Planning website.

41 minutes ago, pmccarthy said:

That may be true, but my daily commute for twenty years was 220km and literally thousands of people in Bendigo, Ballarat, Castlemaine and the dozens of smaller towns who worked in Melbourne did the same.

Remember the OP was about some academics at the Grattan Institute calling for "outlawing" of ICE cars from 2035. They also mentioned some non-industry terms like "light vehicles" which we'll take to mean trucks.                                                    When you outlaw something, you have to provide a replacement so you need it to be invented first so you can then adapt it to the application  and feasible production, they are often the rocks that break the lightbulb idea.

The regional daily commute is one essential need, and before someone says "Use public tranpsort" it doesn't run from the thousands of farm properties where the wife commutes to Melbourne, the local hospital etc.

Then there are the reciprocal trips where people like myself might start in the city at 4 am with a first appointment at Ballarat around 8.30 and finish in Mildura for the day, Griffith the next day and back to Melbourne. That application has to be filled by a replacement EV.