turboplanner

.... Turbo was inclined to say, put a post on WF, but he had just been traumatised, traumatised badly by the amount of information required just to climb a ladder and pour a jerry can of fuel into a fuel tank, so he was more inclined to say "2.5 kg" and hope CT wouldn't notice, but instead ............

...... and this was agreed to by a vote of 4-3 with the Mayor abstaining.

Turbo wasn't quite sure how he'd got here from Flinders island, and now he had to go back and get is electric Drifter to ..............

The Mayor, Barry Turbine said yes, so did Cr Aphonse Turbine, Cr Josie Turbine, Cr Ahmed Abdullah Turbine, Cr Wun Tu Mane Turbine, Cr Lachlan McGlaughlin Turbine, Cr Elvis Presley Turbine and Cr Skye Ita Turbine, subject to one condition, that ................

6 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

I would say almost nil - about 1.5 km of bush to the nearest open country. Loss of power on TO would have left the pilot with few options.

It's not as if this factor hadn't been driven home. In July 2015 a Glasair VH Experimental according to witnesses was "flying due north , downwind leg. The engine surged twice and was then silent." They heard the aircraft collide with wooded terrain. The passenger died, the pilot was seriously injured. ATSB found the engine issue was possibly carb ice.

From google earth this airfield and surrounds looks very much like Katoomba, the circuit completely covered in trees where Rod Hay had an engine failure and was killed.

4 minutes ago, pylon500 said:

Pulling the wings off 210's sounds to be a bit of a habit...

Certainly broke up into little pieces, newly graduated pilot, may have misjudged NT weather.

Fast aircraft (170 kts cruise) no wing struts.

15 minutes ago, onetrack said:

A farmer in W.A. (Pingrup) was killed in a Sapphire crash last year. I have neither heard nor read nothing about the reason behind the fatal crash.

 

https://www.miragenews.com/pingrup-fatal-aircraft-crash-564810/

His name was Trevor Badger, not on the 2022 list, may be heard this year; https://www.coronerscourt.wa.gov.au/I/inquest_findings_2022.aspx

....and this got Turbo thinking and he set out for Big River on the Harley hoping to run down a Sambar stag as big as a horse. He......

5 minutes ago, farri said:

But never forget that there has to be somewhere suitable to land!!!

Yes, its tail looks to be at an angle, but the pilot kept control on the way down and  there was a landing area which allowed survival, in contrast to some other recent events which should have had the same result but left the pilot putting down into trees.

......OK, just a little disturbed by the dance.

CT ..............

....questioned whether what they were watching was true. It was a divided group that...........

https://lilydale.mailcommunity.com.au/2022/12/21/pilot-walks-away-from-coldstream-plane-crash/

Photos: Coldstream CFA

.....at first he was very reluctant to display his technique, then he became very picky about the surface he was to perform on, then it became obvious he was only going to do a solo, but then at 2:07 he was into it, and...................

...savage as lions.

Turbo hired an Africaaner who'd had a job as a scrotum collector at a safari park in South Africa, but given it away because he was constantly bitten. 

At the end of the first week Turbo asked him how he was going.

"I hed to learn how to jump forst with the kangaroo" he said, then a slet with the knife and it was orl eauver. I grebbed a few does by mistek at first and they can kuck like hill, but ut's OK now." The visitors ...............

....the production of Turbine Kangaroo Scrotums. Not so funny for the kangaroos, but this in turn will lead to coins - the five dollar coin, 10 dollar coin, 40 dollar coing, 100 dollar coin, and this in turn will lead to shops we will call Banks because they will have banks of tellers whose job will be to tell us whether we can take out more money, or if we bring in too much, tell us to P!ss off.

This will also shorten the nights at the Club where Cappy has been moaning for ten years that the checkout chicks at Coles ignore him when he wants to withdraw $10,000 cash like he used to when banks were real.

Of course no one .............

.....he had to learn how to ride a bike and over the years finished up with one leg shorter than the other from kicking a Harley. And he knew every Harley part number because he’d fitted every one at least three times. It was in ......

2 hours ago, Captain said:

Which is very apt, CT, as Turbo's politics have always been very left wing, and recently more particularly so since he joined the "Stand With Dan" movement. He even has framed autographs on his mantel from John Setka and Lidia Thorpe. I know this as I have been one of the select few to see the mantel 1st hand in his Trophy Room.

Turbo had always been this way since his days in the SAS. When they marched, which wasn’t very often because they were mostly fighting ...... among themselves, it was always “Left, Right, Left, Right and Turbo was taught “Left comes first” It took a while but he never forgot........

Just a lot of smoke

24 minutes ago, jackc said:

Turbs, I take on board what you say…..but the more I learn, I can’t but think the whole system is somewhat broken 😞. Insurance?  You can forget that as Insurance companies dig as deep as the can to deny any claims they can. 

Policies with PDS documents  not understood by many. CASA Riles have a mountain of bandaids stuck one on top of the other!  WHY? because they are too lazy to rewrite anything that will update and simplify the rules. RAAus are guilty of the same…….their attitude is simply, just pay your rego and membership?

Their insurance policy for members? I have been told by those who know……it’s a paddock full of Landmines 😞  RAAus themselves need to get their act together, too.  But, being the little Cupcakes we are…..we just suck it up.

Well as I mentioned no one's going to get too interested in all that because it's self-managing.

38 minutes ago, aro said:

GA and RAA operate under the same rules, with a few exemptions for RAA under specific conditions.

I agree, however the exemptions didn't become a vaccuum; In the CASA Sport Aviation Self-Administration Handbook 2010 CASA says "these exemptions are conditional", and goes on to list Governance as Compliance, Assurance, Risk Management.

RAA were to "adopt a number of key activities and tools for performance to an SMS.

amd so on.

38 minutes ago, aro said:

RAA have no power to impose penalties greater than wagging a finger, all they can really do is point out if you are not following the conditions for the exemptions.

RAA haven't so far addressed their compliance and enforcement obligations by putting a policy into the Constitution. Plenty of Associations have them, usually in the form of sanctions relating to exercise of membership, e.g. suspensions for certain periods. Natural Justice is usually handled by an Appeals Tribunal. I sat on one for three years.

38 minutes ago, aro said:

, at which point the CASA rules apply to you and CASA can impose penalties.

I was trying to address just the narrow area that JackC was talking about; yes, in RA as soon as you start the engine you are also flying in CASA airspace so are subject to their presecriptive regulations, and CASA can apply penaties.

38 minutes ago, aro said:

There is no difference between GA and RAA under common law i.e. negligence.

I agree, no difference between GA and any of the SASAOs such as hang gliding in the law.

Pilots, Aircraft owners, airstip owners just have to be aware that where CASA exempts them they are self administering and need to insure themselves and practice self risk management.

38 minutes ago, aro said:

CASA doesn't seem worried about being sued. There are various cases where it would appear to be possible, however suing parts of the government doesn't seem like something lawyers are inclined to do.

I agree, but in some areas where CASA offloaded responsibility on to the SASAOs they seem to have taken it back again by dictating what can happen.

1 hour ago, jackc said:

The wheels or wings or bilge plugs go missing AND you injure or kill somebody,  licence or not….YOU are done like a dinner.  NO licence is a mitigating event to the main problem. 

IF I chose to fly unlicensed, or in an unregistered plane, it would be on a property in the Central West of Qld, even to the point I could trailer it out to a remote road somewhere and fly……that makes the ‘illegality’ of it even more fun!  The big rule would/should be NO passenger(s)  So, you crash and die with either result…..on impact, or the passage of time before found.  YOU the PIC decide your risk factor in this.  You make a big bungle and YOU die?  Will CASA, RAAus fine your estate for your unlicensed flying, what about you insurance for plane? There is none if you had no licence and you are not alive to claim anyway…..so what’s it all matter.

Your family get to grieve, but you are GONE……

Also, how many licences pilots have flown without a current medical they are under?  How many with expired BFR?, expired 100 hourly?, Without correct endorsements?  Snuck through controlled air space?  Flown IMC on VFR flight?    

How would CASA ever know?   They won’t unless they spring you on a ramp check. 

Bigger chance of an RBT in the Simpson Desert?  

I thought I had clearly separated GA flying from Recreational Flying. The above  comments relate primarily to GA Flying. 

In Self Administration sports, when nothing happens, nothing happens, so you can tell the most lurid stories you like and no one cares.

When an injury or fatal event occurs the lawyers of the victims/families will be suing for breach of duty of care in a civil court. They have to prove that a duty was owed and was breached. If they prove the case they are awarded suitable damages.

It's quite common that a deceased husband hasn't provided for a wife or family so the Court will decide what their needs are into the future. Of these, in a few cases the husband may have taken steps to secrete parts of the estate, and the Court applies penalties/assigns the estate.

Much simpler than GA, only applies if there is a breach of duty of care, goes right to the heart of the person responsible.

1 hour ago, jackc said:

With the advent of most organisations wanting to treat crash investigations like hot potatoes.  It’s getting to a situation where people care less, just want to do their own thing.  Why become involved?   An old DC-3 pilot I was talking to a couple days ago said to me, WHY even bother with even having a licence, you don’t need one to be a good pilot 🙂 I said a resounding YES!!!  Licences will never stop crashes.

You can still be.a crap pilot with a licence and a hay stack high list of endorsements and still crash.

As a PIC, the whole buck stops with you as a pilot.  Be it a 747 or an Aerolyte 103

 

The old DC3 pilot in using the word "licence" was probably talking about GA flying which, like driving on roads is, controlled by prescriptive laws. Quite a few motorists don't bother with licences and you'll see them on RBT and Highway Patrol trading up from a broken tail light to a couple of thousand dollars in fines, 6 mths to 2 years licence suspension or a car impound. In other words where not getting a licence is naughty CASA might prosecute you, in GA flying.

However, about 35 years ago a group of aviators took advantage of the shift by State and Territory governments in public liability to allow some exemptions for people to fly under Self Administration, subject to some conditions.  That was the birth of Recreational Aviation.

That reversed the game 180 degrees. The participants were now doing the job of CASA and managing themselves against performance guidelines, the performance being theirs. If anyone got hurt and someone sued it was their (the participants') problem, not the government's.

It was no longer smart to be a naughty boy and not get a Certificate because, when it mattered, when you had a crash, and you didn't have a Certificate, hadn't done the training, didn't match the conditions, there wasn't any doubt about who would be paying for the injured.

So if the SASAO circulates some videos, and you haven't done any training on the subject, but don't believe they helped you, and the subject matter related to a reasonably forseeable risk, the self administering pilot has the responsibility against that risk, so you need to do something about it.

56 minutes ago, jackc said:

Don’t lean too hard on decent Instructors…….or there will be NONE left.   They will simply call it a day and enjoy their twilight years flying there own planes. 

Most of us have no bearing on that. It’s a clean system that works backwards from a crash where someone’s killed or injured.

5 hours ago, Area-51 said:

To RaAus' credit they do suggest go and get specialist LOC training - Risk responsibility occurrence mitigated.

I'd suggest they are responsible through their instructors for issuing certificates to pilot an aircraft with all its forseeable risks. 

This thread to me indicates this might not be the best way to discharge duty of care.

........CT who had kept very quiet about his service in Afghanistan and the South China sea. NESsers are asked not to tell anyone, but FA18s fitted with drop tanks have a range of Moscow, which is why we bought them to handle any "emergency" (Tony Abbott's threat to "Shirtfront" Vlad was not the posturing the left thought it was and Vlad knew one in the guts from an FA18 was a distinct possibility). As the group sat on the luxurious verandah at CT's FI Compound sipping cocktails, CT ecplained there were no rabbits on FI because Captain Cook shot them all for food when he was exploring Bass Strait. Since FI was International Territory they were free to gamble, and ..........

".....call "ten miles" and land 2 seconds later which might mess up the Cinese ADSBs."

And sure enough NES readers, an FA18 called "ten miles" at ....................