DH 88 severe nose over

[danny_galaga]

Apparently the pilot is ok, had to go to hospital though

This plane is a handful and lots of people commenting on that landing. But I've heard, maybe from here, that the 'semi wheeler' approach is pretty much the only way it can be done. That still undercarriage design doesn't help.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

It hard to see however it appears that the pilot is not applying up elevator/stick back on landing😈

[Marty_d]

That's a shame. I saw Grosvenor House at Shuttleworth Old Warden about 10 years ago.

There's no shortage of keen volunteers to repair her though, wouldn't be surprised if she was back in the air in a couple of years.

[T510]

Sad day, unfortunately I have read that it will most likely be restored for static display 

[facthunter]

Too much brake Applied and tail wheel on the ground  bit soon as well causing it to get airborne, Nev

[danny_galaga]

1 hour ago, skippydiesel said:

It hard to see however it appears that the pilot is not applying up elevator/stick back on landing😈

Like I say. Apparently you have to land this plane 'semi wheeler'. This is not your grandad's Cub ☺️

[facthunter]

They all obey the same laws Of Physics. Forward vision on that is restricted and I guess you don't get a lot of time to spend practicing in something that rare. Nev

[CT9000]

 

Semi wheeler is not difficult at all, in fact I think it is the safest way to land a taildragger. I also think too much brake too early, not enough back stick.

[rgmwa]

I saw Grosvenor  House in pieces at the back of the hangar in about 1976 before it was restored, so I guess they can do it again. 

[facthunter]

 A "taildown " wheeler is more difficult to"Pin" the aircraft  on the ground. Apparently it has a brake similar to a chipmunk (but Mechanical) where it's pulled on by hand. Maybe it jammed on. (Ratchet pulled too Hard) When you're slow. the elevators don't do much to stop a Plane tipping. The Main directional control is achieved by the  steerable Tailwheel with the stick held right Back in the Landing roll to keep the wheel in constant contact with the surface. Nev

[BrendAn]

What does semi wheeler mean ?

[rgmwa]

11 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

What does semi wheeler mean ?

A lucky escape?

[danny_galaga]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

 A "taildown " wheeler is more difficult to"Pin" the aircraft  on the ground. Apparently it has a brake similar to a chipmunk (but Mechanical) where it's pulled on by hand. Maybe it jammed on. (Ratchet pulled too Hard) When you're slow. the elevators don't do much to stop a Plane tipping. The Main directional control is achieved by the  steerable Tailwheel with the stick held right Back in the Landing roll to keep the wheel in constant contact with the surface. Nev

I saw some more comprehensive video and explanation. That was the second attempt. He landed long, and was nearly out of runway. So either do what he did, or through the hedges and onto the road. If you look at previous landings, that airstrip is not ideal for that plane. I think I would be totally puckered up for EVERY SINGLE LANDING 😄

[rgmwa]

The props on the DH88 were two position - set to fine on the ground for takeoff and climb and automatically went to coarse pitch for cruise. They had to be manually reset to fine on the ground, so they would be landing with coarse pitch. I don't know how that would affect the landing as they would be throttled back but it probably didn't help, and would have made go-arounds interesting.

 

[CT9000]

2 hours ago, BrendAn said:

What does semi wheeler mean ?

Tail low but not a full stall landing. A three pointer is achieved when the plane stalls at the same time as it touches down. Not always happens like that though and control is at minimum due to speed. A wheeler is done at higher speed and uses lots more runway also very prone to bounce. Semi wheeler is still a wheeler landing but at minimum speed so does not use much different runway length than a three pointer. The process requires release of some back stick immediately on touch down which will pin it and stop the bounce from happening. The advantage is the tail is higher getting more rudder control also the slight extra speed gives more aileron control. 

[T510]

19 hours ago, T510 said:

Sad day, unfortunately I have read that it will most likely be restored for static display 

Just saw a report saying it will be rebuilt to flying condition. Great to hear that it will fly again

[facthunter]

It's stall speed is 64 Kt.s Not that fast. Nev

[danny_galaga]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

It's stall speed is 64 Kt.s Not that fast. Nev

For such a quick plane, it is surprisingly low. With that virtually solid undercarriage, I think the mistake is not so much the competency of the pilot, but the choice of landing area. If you look at previous videos of it landing, there's always some amount of bounce. I reckon with something so valuable, a flatter strip, with slightly unkempt grass would be way better.

 

An example of a successful landing. One wheel nicely down, all textbook. But watch it near the end. Like I say, if I were a passenger, I'd be totally puckered up every single time 😄

 

 

 

Edited August 20 by danny_galaga

[Thruster88]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

It's stall speed is 64 Kt.s Not that fast. Nev

So that would be an approach speed around 84knots. The aircraft is know to have unfriendly stalling characteristics requiring a wheel landing. The runway is only 800m and is not very smooth. The vid shows it was landing on 02, this has a 1% down slope. All that would be a challenge. 

Edited August 20 by Thruster88

[skippydiesel]

This time slightly mote up elevator, right at the end of the landing role.

 

Could it be that the pilot is trying not to" plough" with the skid type tail wheel?

 

😈

[pmccarthy]

I have seen it fly before, and had a good look at it in the hangar last year. Hope it flies again soon.

Edited August 20 by pmccarthy

[Marty_d]

I reckon it will. 

As I said, there's no shortage of keen and very experienced volunteers in the UK vintage aircraft scene.

Despite the broken back there's probably not a heap of damage - wings are untouched and it looks like the port prop stopped before the turnover.

[facthunter]

Get a decent airstrip first.. Nev

[440032]

That airstrip is ridiculous. The roller coaster at Seaworld is a smoother ride.

[danny_galaga]

Yeah, I think it's Old Warden. It's fine for the 35knt touchdown speed of a 1911 bleriot or what have you. I think they need to start a different museum for faster aircraft, else move the whole thing.