Jabiru repairs

[BrendAn]

2200 Instruction & Maintenance Manual - jabiru.fr

An effective stainless steel exhaust and muffler system is fitted as standard equipment, ensuring very quiet operations, which in the Jabiru aircraft have been measured at 62dB at 1000' full power flyover 

[onetrack]

304 stainless exhaust tubing is more prone to cracking than MS because the following reasons;

 

1. It's a higher tensile steel than MS (MS - 400-550Mpa, 304 - 500-750Mpa), so it doesn't withstand flexing from movement as well as MS.

2. The welding of 304 can create "carbide precipitation", whereby the carbon in the metal bonds with the chromium at high temperatures, thereby depleting the weld area and the surrounding area of chromium. This compromises the integrity and rust-resistance of the tubing.

3. If the welding of the 304 used an improper filler metal, this can create a metallurgical mismatch, making the weld prone to premature thermal cracking.

4. Despite the 304 being higher tensile strength, the thinness of the 304 tubing promotes cracking with age and constant use.

[facthunter]

You won't weld it with Oxy. You need TIG and the correct rods. In cooler  Parts you can use nickel bronze on SS. That  eliminates the exhaust system, pretty much. Nev

[facthunter]

Stainless "Fatigues" more Quickly than Mild steel .That's why stainless systems didn't catch on with Cars. Some Mufflers are aluminised. Makes them last a bit longer. Short  trips will Wreck your exhaust system.. Nev  

[pmccarthy]

I was talked out of a stainless system on my Jag twenty years ago. I fitted a mild steel one instead and it is still going strong.

[planedriver]

I had an ex-cab Ford falcon that I bought from my brother-in law some years ago that had 670,000kms on the original exhaust. That was straight lpg and run 24hrs a day.

Possibly the constant running at fairly high temperature contributed to it's longeveity?

That was original mild steel exhaust.

Edited yesterday at 12:23 PM by planedriver

[BrendAn]

26 minutes ago, planedriver said:

I had an ex-cab Ford falcon that I bought from my brother-in law some years ago that had 670,000kms on the original exhaust. That was straight lpg and run 24hrs a day.

Possibly the constant running at fairly high temperature contributed to it's longeveity?

That was original mild steel exhaust.

When I was an apprentice at Stilwell Ford we used to get xd falcon taxis in with 700,000 km plus still running well. Taxis were a special order back then. They had blueprinted engines and the fact they rarely got cold and ran on gas made them go forever. I guess the exhaust was kept dry as well. No overnight condensation.

[BrendAn]

6 hours ago, facthunter said:

Stainless "Fatigues" more Quickly than Mild steel .That's why stainless systems didn't catch on with Cars. Some Mufflers are aluminised. Makes them last a bit longer. Short  trips will Wreck your exhaust system.. Nev  

Not sure why you would say stainless exhausts are not popular on cars. The best performance systems usually are.

Popular on trucks too .

I think it will the price that makes them less popular.

 

[facthunter]

I'll stick to what I said. I've had a bit to do with making "special" exhaust systems. I did NOT use the word "Popular" either.  Taxis Had Heavier electrics and Plastic floor Matts etc. They lasted because they never ran cold. I've seen Taxi XD V8 waggons do 1,350,000.  Most  taxi's did not use the V8 engines. Most were on LPG in Victoria. All Falcon 6 exhaust Valves were Inconel .Taxi owners don't  spend any money they don't have to on their vehicles. Oil stays very clean when you run on gas but still gets sulphur in it, which can pull the lead  out of copper lead bearings. Nev

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

I'll stick to what I said. I've had a bit to do with making "special" exhaust systems. I did NOT use the word "Popular" either.  Taxis Had Heavier electrics and Plastic floor Matts etc. They lasted because they never ran cold. I've seen Taxi XD V8 waggons do 1,350,000.  Most  taxi's did not use the V8 engines. Most were on LPG in Victoria. All Falcon 6 exhaust Valves were Inconel .Taxi owners don't  spend any money they don't have to on their vehicles. Oil stays very clean when you run on gas but still gets sulphur in it, which can pull the lead  out of copper lead bearings. Nev

You stick with what you said. I will go with the professional exhaust manufacturers.My euro trucks have stainless exhausts that have been on there for years. Not cracked or corroded.

My LS2 has stainless extractors and a stainless hi performance exhaust system. I know you didn't say popular.

 

[facthunter]

I never  commented about trucks at any stage.  You just want to have the Last word. Read what I DO say and I will answer for what I do say, always. Nev

[BrendAn]

32 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I never  commented about trucks at any stage.  You just want to have the Last word. Read what I DO say and I will answer for what I do say, always. Nev

I don't know what to say anymore.

 

Edited 17 hours ago by BrendAn

[facthunter]

 Very funny.  That's supposed to be a Put down. You are never without words. Just don't change what I say and we will get along a Lot better, What have I  said that is a lie or Misleading? Nev

[BrendAn]

I don't know what you are carrying on about so I just let you go. 

 

[facthunter]

Yes it's clear you have no idea about  discussing things reasonably.  Nev

[BrendAn]

11 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Yes it's clear you have no idea about  discussing things reasonably.  Nev

I don't know what set you off. 

I said my car and trucks have stainless steel exhaust systems .

I was pointing that out because you said they  didn't catch on in cars.

The best systems are stainless .

Edited 14 hours ago by BrendAn

[Blueadventures]

My 912ULS engine has a CKT stainless steel exhaust system, very good build quality and no issues to date.

CKT exhaust broucherv2.pdf

[Col]

I think CKT are now in liquidation, sadly. 

[Blueadventures]

Exhaust Heater Wrap Installation Instructions 3.pdfExhaust Heater Wrap Installation Instructions 3.pdfExhaust Heater Wrap Installation Instructions 3.pdfExhaust Heater Wrap Installation Instructions 3.pdf

11 minutes ago, Col said:

I think CKT are now in liquidation, sadly. 

That's right and Spencer Harvey engineering is making a very similar exhaust, he made my cabin heater unit as he still makes the wrap to suit the CKT and his own design muffler all still in stainless steel.

Sparvey Heater Divert Valve Installation Instructions 1.pdf

Edited 13 hours ago by Blueadventures

[facthunter]

The STAINLESS Pipes can crack and are difficult to repair. They are really the ONLY thin (and light) thing available, Mild steel heated can go soft and lose strength. RED hardness or refractory metals  handle these situations There are about 4 types of stainless used in exhaust turbo situations.   Good cast iron is fairly common  then we go to real refractory metals like titanium or Inconel for F1 and exotics. Most turbo charged aircraft run with their exhaust system running near white hot from the exhaust Port to the turbocharger.  and they don't get Much respite.. Nev

[Blueadventures]

18 minutes ago, facthunter said:

The STAINLESS Pipes can crack and are difficult to repair. They are really the ONLY thin (and light) thing available, Mild steel heated can go soft and lose strength. RED hardness or refractory metals  handle these situations There are about 4 types of stainless used in exhaust turbo situations.   Good cast iron is fairly common  then we go to real refractory metals like titanium or Inconel for F1 and exotics. Most turbo charged aircraft run with their exhaust system running near white hot from the exhaust Port to the turbocharger.  and they don't get Much respite.. Nev

CKT and now Spencer use good aerospace stainless steel grade similar to what is used in jet engines.  CKT people came from the aerospace industry experience.

Edited 12 hours ago by Blueadventures

[facthunter]

That work from CKT looks good..  Nev

[facthunter]

 Burner cans and blades use better than SS of any kind. Some Turbine Blades in the hot section, are a single crystal of metal and are Hollow for cooling air to pass through. The technology is truly Mind bending..Nev

[BrendAn]

35 minutes ago, facthunter said:

 Burner cans and blades use better than SS of any kind. Some Turbine Blades in the hot section, are a single crystal of metal and are Hollow for cooling air to pass through. The technology is truly Mind bending..Nev

Getting a long way from a Jabiru exhaust 😁

[facthunter]

Replying to Blue  Adventures. Pull your Head in. You can't help yourself can You.  Nev