Aero modeler operations to 1,500 ft AGL; any sites near anyone?

[Blueadventures]

Hi  The airfield I operate from (Palmyra YPYA) has been advised that an aero modelers club to the south is renewing their CASA authority and are requesting approval to 1,500 AGL rather than the current 400 ft AGL.

 

Early days and our airfield is preparing a reply after getting comments from our airfield users.

 

Do any members here know of any such operations above the usual 400 ft AGL and if so could you advise their contact.

 

Our initial considerations would be for all piloted aircraft to be aware of any such operation, methods would include details on VTC chart Mackay / Whitsunday  (the club is within the southern 2,500 ft step into Mackay (YBMK); perhaps a radio call on at least 126.7 re take-off, intention and when landed, their operations area I believe is a 600 meter radius of their clubs field (to be confirmed); perhaps fitted with a conspicuity device (eg Skyecho or similar) to enhance visibility and situational awareness to manned aircraft transiting the area.

 

Any comments appreciated.

 

Cheers Mike

Edited Friday at 01:29 AM by Blueadventures

[sfGnome]

That sounds like they’re moving into drone territory, so they really should be required to meet the ‘beyond line of sight’ drone rules (ie radio, conspicuity and licence). My old 2metre gliders would not have been visible from the ground at that height, let alone a small sports model. 

[T510]

It is not uncommon for model aircraft clubs to have CASA approvals to operate within a certain area above 400ft AGL.

 

Typically the ERSA for the closest airfield will be updated with model aircraft listed as a hazard and their location and maximum height.

 

The issues you will run in to with requesting radio calls is that the aeromodellers will need to hold an AROC to broadcast on 126.7.  Handheld Airbands are usually pretty average in their ability to transmit from the ground up too

 

There is little to no chance of model aircraft being approved to use a transponder or conspicuity device. 

 

In the drone world CASA will only approve the use of a secondary surveillance radar (SSR) or an automatic dependent surveillance broadcast (ADS-B) transponder (electronic conspicuity (EC) device) if it is required for the duration of a drone operation, subject to CASA assessment, in the interest of air navigation safety. In general, approval will only be issued to BVLOS operations above 400 ft in non-controlled airspace, BVLOS operations in controlled airspace, or other operations that are integrating with crewed aircraft and require ADS-B out for separation requirements.

 

The MAAA run the model aircraft regulations and there is no avenue to use a transponder under their regulations

 

In Vic I know Werribee MAC, P&DARCS and PARCS have 1500ft AGL approval, pretty sure VARMS does as well, Greensborough MAC have 900ft.

 

Edited Friday at 02:58 AM by T510

[FlyBoy1960]

The only way they would give approval is for rocketry operations. They would not get approval for model aircraft to fly above 400 feet except by application to CASA, NOTAM etc...   Cost = $$$$'s

Rocketry operations are really the only exemption that you can get but they must be approved in very small windows, Notam etc.  required.

Rocketry is very different to model aircraft.

note: there may be some legacy approvals in place as you have mentioned above, but I know since all of the new regulations were introduced it is not going to happen now.

[Blueadventures]

4 minutes ago, FlyBoy1960 said:

The only way they would give approval is for rocketry operations. They would not get approval for model aircraft to fly above 400 feet except by application to CASA, NOTAM etc...   Cost = $$$$'s

Rocketry operations are really the only exemption that you can get but they must be approved in very small windows, Notam etc.  required.

Rocketry is very different to model aircraft.

note: there may be some legacy approvals in place as you have mentioned above, but I know since all of the new regulations were introduced it is not going to happen now.

The clubs letter to us mentioned aircraft up to less than 25kg.

[BurnieM]

I would straight out object to any model aircraft operations above 400ft. 

 

Trying to be cooperative now will just create problems for years to come.

 

[FlyBoy1960]

3 hours ago, Blueadventures said:

The clubs letter to us mentioned aircraft up to less than 25kg.

Thats a drone category < 25 kgs. and unless its a CASA approved test site there will be no chance over 400 ft agl

[Kiwi]

11 hours ago, Blueadventures said:

 

Do any members here know of any such operations above the usual 400 ft AGL and if so could you advise their contact.

Warwick has one.

 

[turboplanner]

D314 and D315 (Danger Area) - right in the Carrum entry area for Moorabbin. You can be going out to the Training Area or coming in from the country and RC UAV (Uninhabited Aerial Vehicle) can be flying around at 1500 feet. The biggest one in the world is a 32 foot Concorde.  The aerobatic ones have a fuselage nearly big enough to lie in and weigh enough to do damage to a full size aircraft.

They are the biggest threat because they are likely to be spearing up for the sky and the 1500 ft for them is eyeball; they don't have altimeters.

The RC field is about in the middle of the D314/D315 area.

CASA wouldn't get into the Planning process deflected it to MAAA (Model Aircraft Association of Australia.)

 

I went to a drag racing Meeting at Palmyra one weekend and there was a Savannah cruising backwards and forwards below the houses opn the hill, so I'd think there will be an issue there. (Remember, the airfield will have Existing Use rights (don't surrender them), and a proposed UAV/RC field won't in the Council Planning phase.

 

 

 

WH00863.pdf WH00864.pdf

[peterg]

19 hours ago, Blueadventures said:

Do any members here know of any such operations above the usual 400 ft AGL and if so could you advise their contact.

 

Ararat is one

 

 

[Blueadventures]

Thankyou for the detailed examples, very helpful and very appreciated.  I'll pass on to our flyers at Palmyra who have been asked to comment on the matter.   I hadn't thought about ERSA as the area is south of Mackay Airport at the northern end of the town of Sarina.  Cheers Mike

[440032]

BlueAdv. I've sent you a private message with real world info - just been through this whole thing for my model club.

 

[T510]

13 hours ago, FlyBoy1960 said:

Thats a drone category < 25 kgs. and unless its a CASA approved test site there will be no chance over 400 ft agl

MAAA uses weight classes too
Light Models: Generally models below 7kg
Large/Heavy Models: Dry mass from 7 - 25kg

These require a heavy model permit to fly and strict inspection. Permits can only be granted after an Airworthiness Inspection and evaluation process. This includes demonstrating to an MAAA Heavy Model Inspector that the person to be authorised to fly the model has the ability to safely operate the model in flight.
Giant Model Aircraft: Dry mass 25kg - 150kg

 

MAAA clubs operating above 400ft AGL require a specific CASA Area Approval, managed through MAAA MOP067 assessment procedures. This process includes a site risk assessment, potential NOTAM, and compliance with MOP004 in Class G airspace to ensure seperation from full-size

[FlyBoy1960]

11 hours ago, Kiwi said:

Warwick has one.

 

These are legacy ones.  The fight at the moment is with the drone industry, why can't they go there and fly to 1500 feet AGL just like a model aircraft can especially when they are multiple he more sophisticated in technology.

 My guess is all of these will be wiped out in the coming year as soon as CASA gets around to doing it and they will be back to 400 AGL unless it is an approved rocket launch area   https://queenslandrocketry.com/

"the only launch site in the Southern Hemisphere which allows flights up to 120,000 feet (36 km)."     Well there you go!   From their website