First jet lands at Western Sydney Airport

[red750]

At around 9:30 this morning, the first jet aircraft landed at Western Sydney Airport. The aircraft, an NSW RFS Boeing 737, made a low flyover along the runway, circled around, then landed. in the historic first landing. Later, an emergency drill practice was carried out by emergency crew.

 

[Blueadventures]

Nice, I saw an image of the airport and doesn't look like any room to expand to a second parallel runway any time.

[facthunter]

That aerodrome is not going to Make Sydney's quality of life better. International  Air travel has to be 24/7.  How does Badgery's, Mascot, Richmond and Bankstown fit together with Sydneys Chaotic weather?  Where do they all go if there's a thunderstorm or strong winds? Nev

[skippydiesel]

Supposed to be an ancient Chines curse - "May You Live In Interesting Times"

 

The next few years are going to be very interesting for those of use who fly small aircraft in the Sydney Basin😈

[skippydiesel]

On the NSW RFS Boeing 737;

 

How does NSW (or any Australian State/Territory) justify owning (leasing?) such a large aircraft, that will only see service, in bad fire seasons, for part of the year and in "good" not at all?

 

I am not a supporter of sub contracting or putting out to the private sector, what should be a Government service, however there are always exceptions - this is likly one of them.😈

[BurnieM]

47 minutes ago, facthunter said:

That aerodrome is not going to Make Sydney's quality of life better. International  Air travel has to be 24/7.  How does Badgery's, Mascot, Richmond and Bankstown fit together with Sydneys Chaotic weather?  Where do they all go if there's a thunderstorm or strong winds? Nev

Richmond does not fit, it is military only. Why ?

And why does Holsworthy still have its restricted airspace ?

So lets bring in more restricted airspace for Western Sydney and massively penalise GA with no reductions in existing restricted airspace.

 

Hopefully the CLL 1500 that has been proposed is reviewed by someone in power with half a brain.

 

Edited October 28 by BurnieM

[BrendAn]

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

On the NSW RFS Boeing 737;

 

How does NSW (or any Australian State/Territory) justify owning (leasing?) such a large aircraft, that will only see service, in bad fire seasons, for part of the year and in "good" not at all?

 

I am not a supporter of sub contracting or putting out to the private sector, what should be a Government service, however there are always exceptions - this is likly one of them.😈

I sat beside one of Coulson's Chinook pilots on my way home from the US the other day. He had 2 weeks in Sydney training with 20 other chopper pilots.  How many chinooks do the RFS have..

[facthunter]

We need  to have our own these days as we can't rely on the Northern Hemisphere aircraft being available when we need them. Nev

[onetrack]

One of the problems with a large firebomber, is that everyone from the top politicians down, sees it as the total and complete answer to fighting large fires. Unfortunately, it's not.

They are certainly good to have on hand when a major fire threatens, but the bottom line is, hundreds of firefighters on the ground, are ones who do most of the heavy lifting, when it comes to putting out bushfires.

 

My middle nephew has 2 x Cat D6T's on call by the W.A. Dept of Parks, Biodiversity, Conservation and Attractions, 24/7/365 during the fire season, Oct to May each year.

The dozers sit on his low loaders ready to go, and when he gets a call from DPBCA, he has to have the dozers on the fire site within 2 hrs, day or night.

 

The dozers are crucial for cutting access roads and firebreaks, knocking down big trees that are spreading hot coals from substantial height, and even pulling out bogged or damaged fire trucks.

He gets paid a very substantial sum for this contract, but I can assure you, he earns every penny of it. The cost of an out-of-control bushfire can run into billions.

 

https://www.screenwest.com.au/made-in-wa/production-highlights/bushfire-wars/

 

[skippydiesel]

Hi Onetrack,

 

Just think how many standby dozer/graders there could be for the price of just one Boeing 737 & its operating costs.😈

[BrendAn]

48 minutes ago, onetrack said:

One of the problems with a large firebomber, is that everyone from the top politicians down, sees it as the total and complete answer to fighting large fires. Unfortunately, it's not.

They are certainly good to have on hand when a major fire threatens, but the bottom line is, hundreds of firefighters on the ground, are ones who do most of the heavy lifting, when it comes to putting out bushfires.

 

My middle nephew has 2 x Cat D6T's on call by the W.A. Dept of Parks, Biodiversity, Conservation and Attractions, 24/7/365 during the fire season, Oct to May each year.

The dozers sit on his low loaders ready to go, and when he gets a call from DPBCA, he has to have the dozers on the fire site within 2 hrs, day or night.

 

The dozers are crucial for cutting access roads and firebreaks, knocking down big trees that are spreading hot coals from substantial height, and even pulling out bogged or damaged fire trucks.

He gets paid a very substantial sum for this contract, but I can assure you, he earns every penny of it. The cost of an out-of-control bushfire can run into billions.

 

https://www.screenwest.com.au/made-in-wa/production-highlights/bushfire-wars/

 

There is a big difference between wa which has no mountain country and the east coast. I think inaccessible mountain terrain is where aerial firefighting excels.

Especially since Greenies have stopped logging and locked out the mountain cattlemen.

Edited October 28 by BrendAn

[facthunter]

Stop fires before they become BIG. Usually started by lightning in remote Mountain areas. Nev

[skippydiesel]

22 hours ago, BrendAn said:

There is a big difference between wa which has no mountain country and the east coast. I think inaccessible mountain terrain is where aerial firefighting excels.

Especially since Greenies have stopped logging and locked out the mountain cattlemen.

There would be very few fires put out by aerial bombers alone - still take a lot of ground forces, no matter what the terrain. In fact if too rugged for ground attack, they let it burn to where ground forces can get access.😈

[skippydiesel]

I would go one step further ;

 

There seems to be an overuse/reliance on aerial bombing.

We live on the eastern side of Burragorang Lake/Reservoir - to the west, thousandths of square kilometers of bush in very rugged terrain.

In our 30+ years we have seen two major bush fires, numerous minor ones.

The first bush fire came within meters of our property. The deep heavily vegetate gully running N-S to our immediate West was allowed to burn out (fuel reduction) - the correct management. Dont recall very much aerial activity.

Years later, we had the second similar event - this time massive aerial action - way better than any airshow. Featured choppers, a Herc (doing realy crazy stunts) and sundry jets of varying sizes all at very low level,tooling around like aerobatic aircraft.

All the action didnt seem to speed control any better/faster than the first event.

After a day or so things calmed down, except for the aforementioned gully. Days & days of helicopter bombing ensued - for what???? At best they reduced the effectiveness of the hazard/fuel reduction at huge cost to the taxpayer.

In my view the ridiculous gully exercise was only done because the aerial resources were available, not because a sensible fire management decision was made.😈

[Moneybox]

The biggest problem is the way houses are positioned in relation to bushland. In years gone by when common sense prevailed we built houses on cleared land with fire brakes. Many years ago now we contemplated purchasing a building block on Molloy Island in the Blackwood River, WA. The only way to get to the island is by vehicular ferry or private vessel. When we viewed to lots for sale they were under the canopy of very tall eucalyptus trees. On each block they had a small number of trees with red ribbons around the trunk. They were the only trees approved for felling and in some cases the surrounding tree's canopies connected. In the case of a bushfire all properties would be doomed as there was no chance to defend the fire. For that reason alone we chose to look elsewhere.

 

I grew up in Upper Brookfield, a dead end road surrounded by water reserves, Lake Manchester, Gold Creek and Enoggera. When the fires came the community came together to defend each property as it was threatened. The general practise was to backburn. You'd start at or near the home, shed or yards and ignite the vegetation in a controlled manner using wet cornsacks and howes to maintain the fire break until the fire itself widened the break improving the defence from the face of the bushfire. I never saw a home or building lost and in all cases the fire was left to burn out.

 

These days if you tried to back burn from your property you'd most likely take out your nearest neighbour. Now there's a case for duty of care, who approves these building sites?

 

Perhaps I strayed from the thread theme a little, sorry about that. 😇

[facthunter]

Good advice. Eucalyptus trees are Like Drums of Petrol. Radiant Heat is Enormouse.   Nev