Crosswind at La Salette (French Alpine grass strip)

[facthunter]

I've seen a few where the chute didn't open properly but no deaths fortunately. We used to joke about "Roman Candles" and putting your arms out to limit how far you went into the ground. Nev

[Garfly]

Did you catch Bertorelli on dodging meat bombs? 

(He has a little sting in the tail for we of the "perfectly good aeroplane" brigade  ;- )

[sfGnome]

4 hours ago, Garfly said:

The man on the Clapham bus thinks the same about anyone who goes up in one of them little aeroplanes.

That’s one of the things that really surprised me when I started taking passengers. Some couldn’t wait to get on board, while others were not so sure. One niece declared “it’s so tiny; no way I’d go near that”. I’d always assumed that everyone was obsessed with flying… 🤷‍♂️

 

The memory that really niggles at me was that we had a low wing plane, and both my parents were too weak to be able to climb in. If only we’d had a high wing. Mum would have been out of her skull with excitement. Her brothers flew gliders before the war, and she was so proud that I was flying too.

 

Hmmmm…. I think I’ve taken thread drift to a new level. Sorry! 🙄

[rgmwa]

My niece had only ever flown RPT and was pretty hesitant to go up with me because the plane was so small, but after some persuasion, a careful walk around explaining how everything worked and a pax briefing she finally plucked up enough courage to fly. She’s a doctor and currently in the NT. She recently sent me a text saying she had to fly in a small plane to one of the remote communities but she remembered our flight and didn’t panic. I asked her how big the plane was. She said it was small, so I asked how many engines did it have. She said two! I guess ‘small’ means different things to different people.

[Old Koreelah]

8 hours ago, sfGnome said:

…we had a low wing plane, and both my parents were too weak to be able to climb in.

Low wings can easier for infirm people. In NZ I was among a bunch of Jodeleers that flew into a remote strip punctiuated by rabbit burrows. The last to land was guided in by radio and made an impressive arrival: just as he was about to stop in front of the aseembled pilots, his left wheel found a deep bunny hole and his Jodel spun around to be parked with wing almost on the ground. This made it easier for his wife (who was recovering from a stroke) to step off.

[Garfly]

 

Anyway, it looks like La Salette is a mere piece of cake compared to Valloire Bonnenuit. 

But again, our intrepid Jodel and Skyranger drivers show they know what they're about.

 

 

 

 

From the Description (via Google translate):

"As promised, here is Valloire Bonnenuit, well known to cycling and Tour de France enthusiasts, on the Col du Galibier road.
The north/south oriented runway is located at 5600 ft, is 340 m long with a 9.5% gradient. We face south.
The terrain is delicate with valley wind (downslope), with a venturi effect that can be pronounced. The final approach is very engaging, you really enter a funnel (at the origin of the venturi). Go-around is only possible as long as the valley is wide enough to turn around. It quickly becomes impossible. Pilots have died here for forgetting it.
So if we get too high, too fast, we land anyway and we stop against the embankment at the end of the runway, sorry but alive!
The visual of this rising valley makes it difficult to mentally represent the 5% plane on final, which can be tricky and cause us to approach on too weak a plane. If moreover that day, the wind is tail (mountain wind this time) and accelerates in the venturi when approaching the track, it is a blow to not being able to reach the track, even full throttle.
It is therefore necessary to take the altimeter reference of the runway threshold during the low reconnaissance, then climb outward to the altitude of the downwind (here 6100 ft). Finally, once on final, check the plane with the vario once the runway is stationary in relation to the bonnet mark.
Based ULM pilots, who are at home, must have other benchmarks.

The next video will take us to La Tovière Val d'Isère, still in Savoie.

Explanation of the venturi effect in detail:
The AFPM field sheet indicates that the approach can be tricky in valley winds. It is important to fully understand how this may influence the approach in order not to make the decision to go around.
Valley wind is created by the radiative cooling of air aloft in the mountains that flows up and down the valleys as it becomes denser than the surrounding air. The analogy with flowing water is quite telling. The stronger the radiative effect (cold soils at altitude), the larger the valley (supply surface), steeper and narrower, the stronger the wind will be.
By watching my video you have surely noticed this small hill on the right on the short final which creates a pronounced restriction at the bottom of the valley. If the valley wind is present, it will increase sharply at this location.
Now let's imagine an airplane on stabilized final. Approaching the venturi he will encounter a very strong positive wind gradient which will have the effect of increasing his indicated speed and/or causing him to pass above the plane and which may lead the pilot to believe that he is much too high and too fast to land and that at the same time, he has such climbing performance that he can turn around by overshooting.
It is a decoy, because once past the venturi the opposite phenomenon occurs. It is therefore necessary to resist and be patient when aiming for the threshold of the runway, even on a very strong plane. Runway excursions at the end only exist if the speed relative to the ground is too high, but this is not the case. The indicated airspeed parameter will naturally decrease when exiting the venturi allowing the landing.
Once the phenomenon is well understood, it will come naturally that it is suicidal to attempt a take-off in these conditions, the venturi can get the better of the planes that have the best climbing performance, unless they can pass well above the hill."

SPEEDJOJO Blog: http://speedjojo.blogspot.com/
Shop SPEEDJOJO T-shirts: https://www.tostadora.fr/speedjojo/ca...

[Student Pilot]

Gotta love google translate 😁

[Garfly]

 

And now for a right hand circuit at La Salette:

 

 

 

[johnm]

what height above sea level is that strip ?

 

..................... perect conditions that day (I am not taking anything away for the skill in landing)

 

...................... I'd like to see a goo around - touch down and then over the top .................. looks possible ?

[Garfly]

 

 

 

There's a vid for that ...

 

(Google Earth shows it as about 5,000' elev. around 50 km SSW of Grenoble)

 

 

From the YT description:

 

"La Salette is one of the most difficult and most technical airfields of the south Alps and few airmen venture there. Several accidents took place there, mainly because of side exits or too short landing, but there have never been deaths. Thus the main risk is to break some wood or to twist of sheet steel. The missed approach can be very late decided during flight, there is no effect of funnel as on other altisurfaces. We can decide even there once on ground if we arrive with too much speed at the top of the dome, which is shown in this video. The only difficulty in this case is to find the way to the axis of take-off in a place where the convexity of the profile leads to a very difficult visibility. The axis of landing is directed to 190 ° while the axis of take-off is 210 °. It is thus necessary in case of go around on ground, to turn at the top of 20 ° to the right if we do not want to break the plane (big slope to the left, bushes to the right!) to plan this eventuality, the mountain pilot will beforehand have taken a mark far off (summit) to facilitate this alignment. This video was shot in the morning of October 25th, 2017. We had left with my father this morning there for outdoor day mountain. The conditions being optimal this day there, my father wanted to make his first landing for La Salette by benefiting from my experience and from my friendly supervision. The approach was led well, but some kph of excess at the flare and a delay of application of brakes made us arrive too fast at the top of the dome. We shouted together "Go Around !" what proves that we were in phase. The fact of pushing the throttle control from idle to full gas all at once surprised the engine which began to suffocate, the full power returned only to the rotation. Incident to be meditated on the functioning of our engines (Continental O-200 on the speedjojo) which is not abnormal but which the brutal application of the throttle control under stress can engender."

 

 

Some more tricky strips of the Southern Alps:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8kI5PzzrzM

 

Edited Sunday at 09:48 PM by Garfly

[facthunter]

Landing up a considerable slope May require FULL Power and enough extra speed to Perform an Abrupt flare. Nev

[facthunter]

 I MISSED the Crosswind aspect of it. I have Many Mates who flew into ONE WAY strips In PNG in Bristol  Freighters. (often Called "Frighteners) which Came from Pakistan after WW2. to TAA. IF they parked  sideways near  the top of the Hill, the BIG front doors would Jamb when the fuselage distorted. Bristol sleeve Valve Engines same as SEA Furies Had..Nev

Edited Monday at 04:16 AM by facthunter
spelling

[onetrack]

That Tenzing-Hillarys airstrip at Lukla in Nepal is not something I'd like to visit. An EFATO there and you'd be unlikely to survive. No weather radar, no nav aids, and clouds that can sweep in in minutes, means VFR only there.

 

https://www.himalayanglacier.com/facts-about-lukla-airport/

 

I'd guess a lot of PNG Highland strips aren't a lot different - apart from not even being sealed! I often wonder how they got the equipment and materials in there to build the runways.

This a photo from WW2 (from "Pacific Wrecks") showing troops manhandling a small towed scraper through a C-47 doorway to build airstrips from scratch in tiger country.

 

 

[facthunter]

That would Make a Mess of the Floor.  I wonder how they spread the Load? The slope also made the cargo likely to fall to the rear when Loading the 3.. A few dark Toes were cut off to the Merriment of the Other workers, Strange sense Of Humour. we called those white Man Hats "Bring Em Back Alive Oh's." You could Buy them just after the War. Nev

[BrendAn]

worked with a shotcrew boss once that had been fifo cairns to the new guinea highlands somewhere.  

he had been in 24 runway excursions over his time there. touchdown and slide into the bush or off the strip. sometimes a meter of rain a day.

[facthunter]

There's ONE Bristol Wrecked at the Bottom of a Hill. They Just removed the Engines and Left the rest there.  In the Mid 60s I crewed DC4s to POM-LAE overnight LAE. Frequently we were about 500 Ft above the terrain over the OWEN Stanleys at about Flt LVL 150. If it wasn't VFR the LSALT was FL 170 coming back. The High speed selection for the Blowers was removed On OUR C47/DC4 Planes Guaranteeing we Couldn't Maintain Height If any engine failed. ALL approved BY CASA or DCA at the Time. ALSO the PNG Fleet operated on PK Charts for MAX Weights. ((Developmental) allowing them to be Overloaded compared to Mainland figures.  How good is that?  Nev

[Garfly]

 

 

4 hours ago, facthunter said:

 I MISSED the Crosswind aspect of it. ... //

 

Oh, "Crosswind" in the thread title refers to the video linked in the original post (mid 2023).

Just keeping the little collection together.

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

Vent Lateral is Another. You'd get many variable winds at such Places. The steep slope on the Landing to Me is the Most Notable aspect of the challenge. Nev

[fallowdeer]

 

Don’t really see that French stuff as anything to special really. Each day every day over here

[johnm]

apologies if you have heard this one ............... no joke though

 

Onetracks post above reminds me of the NZ topdressing DC 3's that could take a Bambina or a Mini in the back - also by ramp - for transport of pilot and crew - pilot got off one speeding ticket in the North Island ................. BUT, presumably had to pay the South Island ticket !  (post form NZ web-site below)

 

Was it Gerry Kluck that got two speeding tickets in a day (within the hour I think), one between Blenheim and Woodbourne followed by one from Paraparaumu Airport to the Railway Station. (so engineer could catch train to Palmy)? Magistrate through it out of court as it was thought impossible to get two tickets within three hours in two islands in the same car.

[Garfly]

On 12/01/2026 at 8:37 PM, fallowdeer said:

Don’t really see that French stuff as anything to special really. Each day every day over here

Ha, ha ... but then, the PNG mob says the same about the NZ mob. 

Anyway, the bent-wing hill-tribes should support each other.

What's a Jodel, after all, but a juvenile Fletcher? 

 

 

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Garfly

[fallowdeer]

Yep but one thing over here is heading down the strip with maybe 2000kg just loaded onboard and then doing that over 100 times  a day…😁  

[Garfly]

 

Too true! 

 

And somehow, I'm put in mind of a conversation overheard at the Port Moresby Aero Club bar, back in the day.

Along the lines of:

 

"Oh, aye, we used to fly a tiny, tumble down old Piaggio with great holes in't roof."

"Piaggio!?  You were lucky to have an aeroplane!  We used to haul 26 pax every flight in crates made of coconut thatch and garden furniture.  Half the floor was missing and we'd all huddle in one corner for fear of falling."

"Crates!? You were lucky to have crates!"