Nev, I agree with your reasoning. Walking with my German sister in law one day we saw a local park in terrible condition due to gross littering. When she said, wouldn't happen at home,I asked why. She said because of the 2000 mark fine! No graffiti in China or Vietnam. But at what cost you may ask? Same with breach of ano's. Given the rather exclusive membership of pilot communities (incl lawyers) I wonder if it would work (jailing them?) Rgds and happy new year, Don Sorry, thought it was facthunter, still applies Turbo.