Ch601 hds flaps

[Guest stol lover]

I have ordered the plans of the Ch601 HDS. It sounds great for what I want (initially i wanted a ch701 but settled for longer on the strip and less time in the air) but think it could be better if it had flaps. I have seen 601s in RAA magazine with flaps. Has anyone done it with either a hd or hds? Having full span ailerons I thought it would be possible to do since I want to build from plans.

 

 

[Allen B]

Good morning/afternoon. I own and fly a 601HDS and have just found this post (question) and staying with the same question asked in the Post above, I can't help but wonder if anyone has successfully designed and built flaps for the Zenith 601HDS. I find my HDS has a reasonably high speed stall and is not  pussycat to land.  Regards Allen B.

[IBob]

Maybe ask JG at Stolspeed if anyone has put VGs on a 601HDS?

 

[Allen B]

2 hours ago, IBob said:

Maybe ask JG at Stolspeed if anyone has put VGs on a 601HDS?

 

Hi IBob and thank you for replying.  I have already purchased the VG's from JG and will install as advised. However as mentioned in a comment I previously posted, I suspect while VG's may help, traditional flaps would out-perform VG's (I suspect).   RKind regards Allen B

[Allen B]

5 hours ago, Kiwi said:

In my Drifter if you adjust the airlerons down a few degrees it lowers the stall speed (and the cruise speed) on your aircraft are Ailerons set correctly?

Have you thought about adding VG's ?

 

2 hours ago, Allen B said:

Comparing the  performance between the Drifter wing and the HDS wing and expecting a similar outcome for the HDS may be quite a stretch, but thank you for the suggestion.  Regards the VG's, I have already purchased a sufficient quantity which I will attach soon and see what difference they make.  I know about the Swiss pilot (Victor) and will follow his suggestion re placement of the VG's. I suspect the VG's may help a touch but I also suspect VG's wont perform as well as a decent set of flaps. Again, maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part ?.   Allen B

 

[Moneybox]

8 hours ago, Allen B said:

Good morning/afternoon. I own and fly a 601HDS and have just found this post (question) and staying with the same question asked in the Post above, I can't help but wonder if anyone has successfully designed and built flaps for the Zenith 601HDS. I find my HDS has a reasonably high speed stall and is not  pussycat to land.  Regards Allen B.

My Zodiac CH 601 HD has no flaps but is a beautiful plane to land in all sorts of terrible weather. My stall speed with just me onboard 67kg and about 70L of fuel is too low to register on the MGL instrument. It goes down to 27kts and then to zero before the stall. I have no desire to fit flaps.

[BrendAn]

Just now, Moneybox said:

My Zodiac CH 601 HD has no flaps but is a beautiful plane to land in all sorts of terrible weather. My stall speed with just me onboard 67kg and about 70L of fuel is too low to register on the MGL instrument. It goes down to 27kts and then to zero before the stall. I have no desire to fit flaps.

he has the speed wing, 

[Moneybox]

Oh, I guess that’s what the S means. 🤔

 

[BrendAn]

39 minutes ago, Moneybox said:

Oh, I guess that’s what the S means. 🤔

 

Yes. Faster but the penalty is a high stall speed from what I have read.

Edited July 6 by BrendAn

[Kiwi]

3 hours ago, Allen B said:

 

 

I don't think you understood my post. Lowering the trailing edge of your full span airlerons 5 degrees is the same as having 5 degrees of flaperons down. It wouldn't matter what aircraft you tried it on. It would still have the same effect. 
Lower stall speed and lower top speed.

Edited July 6 by Kiwi

[Allen B]

5 hours ago, Kiwi said:

I don't think you understood my post. Lowering the trailing edge of your full span airlerons 5 degrees is the same as having 5 degrees of flaperons down. It wouldn't matter what aircraft you tried it on. It would still have the same effect. 
Lower stall speed and lower top speed.

Hi again Kiwi (I assume you are based in NZ ?) I fully understood your suggestion and yes I do agree lowering the ailerons will have a 'slowing' affect on the airspeed.  however I must confess I tend to be an extremist (if that's a word) and would not want to trade any speed for a more sedate landing. I would much prefer to have the best of both worlds, easier landing plus the maximum speed the HDS can provide.  So yes I did understand your suggestion. Regards Allen B.

[Allen B]

9 hours ago, BrendAn said:

he has the speed wing, 

 

8 hours ago, BrendAn said:

Yes. Faster but the penalty is a high stall speed from what I have read.

Hi guys, you read right !!.  If the aircraft could achieve 150 knots in cruise it would be easier to justify the higher landing speed, but it's cruise is still only 115 knots at best.  Allen B

[Allen B]

9 hours ago, Moneybox said:

Oh, I guess that’s what the S means. 🤔

 

Hi Moneybox. I too understood the S stands for Speed. Now I think the S just stands for 'Slippery'.

[Allen B]

9 hours ago, Moneybox said:

My Zodiac CH 601 HD has no flaps but is a beautiful plane to land in all sorts of terrible weather. My stall speed with just me onboard 67kg and about 70L of fuel is too low to register on the MGL instrument. It goes down to 27kts and then to zero before the stall. I have no desire to fit flaps.

Hi BrandAn. Your stall speed is a bit over half my stall - which isn't a constant speed either 😕.  Allen B

[Thruster88]

Aircraft with properly designed flaps such as PA-28 Cherokee or Beech23 musketeer only achieve a stall speed reduction of 4 to 7 knots, these Aircraft have a similar stall speed to a ch601hds. Yes a steeper approach can be achieved. In my experience it makes no difference to ease of landing having flaps.

[BrendAn]

2 hours ago, Allen B said:

Hi BrandAn. Your stall speed is a bit over half my stall - which isn't a constant speed either 😕.  Allen B

not me allen. moneybox has the zodiac.

[Student Pilot]

Depends on the aircraft, flaps can make a dramatic difference to the stall speed. Early Cessnas and others designed for stol the flaps can go to 40 even 58 degrees on the Beaver. I have never experienced much stall speed reduction with VG's, couple of knots at best depending on the installation. Some have VG's on the tailplane/fin even on the fuse around the cockpit. VG's do however have an effect on the control feel, they firm up the controls (again depends on installation/kit) at speeds closer to stall. 
 

I've found on many aircraft the original wing performs better without any of the whizzbang additions. VG's, Robertson stol, Sportsman, leading edge cuffs, fences and fancy wingtips, they don't make that much difference, just add weight except to your wallet where they make it considerably lighter 🤣

Edited July 7 by Student Pilot
Spellinge

[facthunter]

 A steep approach needs DRAG. Cessna's Fowler flaps are the Best in the game for Light aircraft for lift and lower stall speed, IMHO. The last stages give a lot of drag and a better view ahead. (Nose is lower).Those flaps even increase the wing area.  As stated, most flaps don't lower the stall speed that Much. With Flaps, there's always the Possibility of an asymmetric extension. and it's all extra weight, complexity and cost.  Nev

Edited July 7 by facthunter
typo