Fuel Price

[Siso]

2 hours ago, kgwilson said:

The World Fuel avgas tank at South Grafton ran dry last week and is still empty. No word on when it is being replenished. Price at the time was $2.61 a litre. While we all whinge about the price hikes and especially because they happen on existing stock plus numerous tankers full already on their way here, the largest problem has been increased demand.

 

Why? There has been no change in the weather or distance travelled or more vehicles on the road suddenly, it is pure and simple panic buying and greed. People especially in regional areas filling multiple 200 litre drums on a trailer or ute or even large tanks. Motorists filling their tanks to full when they normally wouldn't and filling jerry cans that normally sat at home part empty. Bunnings ran out of jerry cans & probably other  retailers like Super Cheap etc. Just like toilet paper during Covid. Why? All this has contributed to the petrol and diesel retailers hiking the price. It is the normal economic model of supply and demand.

 

I am sitting here with my Electric car charged for free from my solar panels and home battery so I may appear a bit smug but my wifes car runs on petrol and  she didn't tear off to the petrol station to fill up. That will happen when the gauge gets to less than a quarter as normal.

 

Also Australia has cheaper fuel than all European countries, the UK, NZ  & most developed countries except the USA which is now about $US1.15 ($AUD 1.67) a litre. Our fuel excise tax is also lower than most developed countries.

 

https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/USA/gasoline_prices/

 

 

Using Europe as a comparison to our fuel prices over here is like comparing apples and oranges. They have a very good public transport over there with a road that is bitumen also normally has a bus run along it. You can catch a train and prices being less than $100 between country capitals. Our fuel needs be cheaper once you get out of the metro area. Often it is not.

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, kgwilson said:

 

 

Also Australia has cheaper fuel than all European countries, the UK, NZ  & most developed countries except the USA which is now about $US1.15 ($AUD 1.67) a litre. Our fuel excise tax is also lower than most developed countries.

 

https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/USA/gasoline_prices/

 

 

Your point??

 

The price of diesel contributes to every aspect of our lives, even to your ambulance rush to the hospital and the carriage of your remains.

Petrol on the other hand only influences the cost of personal travel, mowing the lawn, the time you spend in the air, etc  ie not far off discretionary

A temporary removal of the diesel tax components, would do something tangible to address the fuel shortage and the cost of living rise.

Not a hard concept to grasp.😈

[facthunter]

Artificially lowering the price would cause more usage and non essential mileage, that would otherwise be the case.. More fuel is now sold than is the Normal usage figure, That requires more fuel trucks and drivers which  do not exist. No one carries surplus to normal requirements or they are uncompetitive.  Nev

[kgwilson]

16 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Your point??

 

The price of diesel contributes to every aspect of our lives, even to your ambulance rush to the hospital and the carriage of your remains.

Petrol on the other hand only influences the cost of personal travel, mowing the lawn, the time you spend in the air, etc  ie not far off discretionary

A temporary removal of the diesel tax components, would do something tangible to address the fuel shortage and the cost of living rise.

Not a hard concept to grasp.😈

As it does in numerous other economies. Reducing that dependence is something we have been pretty slow at doing. That is certainly changing with Electric trucks on the road & in the mines. Crises like this should be a wake up call to us all. There is plenty of fossil fuel at the moment but reserves that are easy to extract are being used up and eventually extraction will become very expensive not to mention its detrimental effect on the climate.

 

Removing the excise tax will cost the Government way too much so a reduction is a more likely possibility. If it was reduced by half then that is just 26 cents a litre cheaper. Better than nothing but not much.

[BrendAn]

28 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Artificially lowering the price would cause more usage and non essential mileage, that would otherwise be the case.. More fuel is now sold than is the Normal usage figure, That requires more fuel trucks and drivers which  do not exist. No one carries surplus to normal requirements or they are uncompetitive.  Nev

The price has been artificially raised  to a rediculous level.

You try running a fleet of trucks at $3.25 p/l.  I am passing it on to my customers so they are wearing a huge increase for no reason .

When you go to the supermarket and pay double maybe you will realise the effect this is having and we have seen nothing yet 

Industry will start closing the doors soon.

[BrendAn]

14 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

As it does in numerous other economies. Reducing that dependence is something we have been pretty slow at doing. That is certainly changing with Electric trucks on the road & in the mines. Crises like this should be a wake up call to us all. There is plenty of fossil fuel at the moment but reserves that are easy to extract are being used up and eventually extraction will become very expensive not to mention its detrimental effect on the climate.

 

Removing the excise tax will cost the Government way too much so a reduction is a more likely possibility. If it was reduced by half then that is just 26 cents a litre cheaper. Better than nothing but not much.

Albosleazy won't give us a break because he hates Australians.

[onetrack]

The Govt has announced it is halving the fuel excise for 3 months, meaning a 26c litre reduction in petrol and diesel price at the bowser. How they are going to ensure the money-grubbing oil companies pass on the full amount of the excise reduction is something they apparently haven't addressed.

 

In addition, the heavy vehicle road user surcharge of 34c litre is being suspended indefinitely. The reductions are estimated to cost the Govt $2.55B foregone in revenue.

 

Brendan will be killing it now - all these fuel price reductions and he'll still keep adding the fuel surcharge.  😄 

[BrendAn]

7 minutes ago, onetrack said:

The Govt has announced it is halving the fuel excise for 3 months, meaning a 26c litre reduction in petrol and diesel price at the bowser. How they are going to ensure the money-grubbing oil companies pass on the full amount of the excise reduction is something they apparently haven't addressed.

 

In addition, the heavy vehicle road user surcharge of 34c litre is being suspended indefinitely. The reductions are estimated to cost the Govt $2.55B foregone in revenue.

 

Brendan will be killing it now - all these fuel price reductions and he'll still keep adding the fuel surcharge.  😄 

The government has made a fortune the last few weeks. They are just returning some of our money.. 

We will still be paying $2.50 plus a litre. Pity albosleazy and Jacinta gave 15 billion to organised crime. We could use that money to offset the oil cartels.

And one-track the surcharge will go down with the reduction in cost.

Would be nice though.

 

[Thruster88]

3 hours ago, facthunter said:

There has always been a lot of uncertainty with avgas supply I doubt you can even get the Higher octane varieties. Nev

Have had an avgas burner for 30 years now, only 100 low lead has been available. I have read about the other grades from long ago, 80/87 and 130/145.

[facthunter]

The DC 4  and anything remotely like it used 130/145. Those motors would have to operate derated today.  Nev

[skippydiesel]

3 hours ago, kgwilson said:

As it does in numerous other economies. Reducing that dependence is something we have been pretty slow at doing. That is certainly changing with Electric trucks on the road & in the mines. Crises like this should be a wake up call to us all. There is plenty of fossil fuel at the moment but reserves that are easy to extract are being used up and eventually extraction will become very expensive not to mention its detrimental effect on the climate.

 

Removing the excise tax will cost the Government way too much so a reduction is a more likely possibility. If it was reduced by half then that is just 26 cents a litre cheaper. Better than nothing but not much.

Maaate: 

 

Tax dollars belong to US not the Government - small point that needs to be emphasised. The Gov does not suffer when revenue is forgone. We may, down the track but what needs doing now, is some tangiable response to an emergency situaton, no matter how short that response may be.

 

As for your soap box lecture on EV's /fossil fuels- I see you list quite a range of aircraft under your name - which one is an EV ?

 

My point is simple - until EV's are a true alternative to all our vehicles (not just commuters and the occasional city dweller adventuring down the highway) we will continue to need fossil fuels for land, sea and air vehicles.

 

I am a supporter of EV's and recognise that one day they will be ubiquities in both town & country but not for the immediate future.😈

[BrendAn]

1 minute ago, skippydiesel said:

Maaate: 

 

Tax dollars belong to US not the Government - small point that needs to be emphasised. The Gov does not suffer when revenue is forgone. We may, down the track but what needs doing now, is some tangiable response to an emergency situaton, no matter how short that response may be.

 

As for your soap box lecture on EV's /fossil fuels- I see you list quite a range of aircraft under your name - which one is an EV ?

 

My point is simple - until EV's are a true alternative to all our vehicles (not just commuters and the occasional city dweller adventuring down the highway) we will continue to need fossil fuels for land, sea and air vehicles.

 

I am a supporter of EV's and recognise that one day they will be ubiquities in both town & country but not for the immediate future.😈

Labour governments always call taxpayers money their own then they proceed to blow it all . Net Zero is a good example. The last couple of weeks have made Bowen and albo realise how much we depend on fossil fuels. Have a look at albo on the news , he is not happy after bowing to public pressure , he was happy for everyone to go broke.

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

The DC 4  and anything remotely like it used 130/145. Those motors would have to operate derated today.  Nev

Useful information. Thanks 

[BrendAn]

Remember the liberals dropped the fuel excise during COVID and within a fortnight the fuel companies  increased the price  unril it overtook the excise saving.

[kgwilson]

24 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Maaate: 

 

Tax dollars belong to US not the Government - small point that needs to be emphasised. The Gov does not suffer when revenue is forgone. We may, down the track but what needs doing now, is some tangiable response to an emergency situaton, no matter how short that response may be.

 

As for your soap box lecture on EV's /fossil fuels- I see you list quite a range of aircraft under your name - which one is an EV ?

 

My point is simple - until EV's are a true alternative to all our vehicles (not just commuters and the occasional city dweller adventuring down the highway) we will continue to need fossil fuels for land, sea and air vehicles.

 

I am a supporter of EV's and recognise that one day they will be ubiquities in both town & country but not for the immediate future.😈

 Who do you pay your tax to? Not yourself, You pay it to the government. How they choose to spend it depends on their priorities not yours individually.

 

There is far more development globally in to electric propulsion for aviation than there is in either Jet or ICE powered aircraft. Already electric Vtol taxis operate in China. I prefer to look at the future and not live in the past. My aircraft is ICE powered as electric technology is still evolving and I will probably be dead before it becomes main stream in aviation. Internal combustion was invented in the 19th century. If internal combustion was developed now rather than 150 years ago it would be laughed of the planet. The future is electric and that is well established. Look around you. All your tools are battery powered, E-bikes are everywhere. EVs make up 10% of new vehicles in Australia far less that most other developed countries except the US where the Trump factor has put a large dent in progress there. Formula E motor racing cars leave F1 vehicles in their wake. The government can't tax the sun. My EV costs me nothing to run and I pay nothing to power my house & get a credit for the excess. Sure I have had to make a capital investment but I calculated the benefits and they are paying off handsomely. 

 

Those who have chosen to change have ignored the massive anti EV and electric change by the fossil fuel industry. They know the writing is on the wall and are doing everything they can to delay it including lobbying governments. Twiggy Forrest is no fool and has invested $4 Billion with Leibherr for more than 360 fully electric dump trucks powered from their own solar farms. BHP & others are doing similar things. They are not stupid and know they need to be in the transition now and not when things turn to custard as they could even now with what the tangerine todler is doing.

 

 

[BurnieM]

There is a major correction that I need to make to your post;

                              his name is 'dickhead Donald' not the 'tangerine todler'.

 

[BrendAn]

37 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

 Who do you pay your tax to? Not yourself, You pay it to the government. How they choose to spend it depends on their priorities not yours individually.

 

There is far more development globally in to electric propulsion for aviation than there is in either Jet or ICE powered aircraft. Already electric Vtol taxis operate in China. I prefer to look at the future and not live in the past. My aircraft is ICE powered as electric technology is still evolving and I will probably be dead before it becomes main stream in aviation. Internal combustion was invented in the 19th century. If internal combustion was developed now rather than 150 years ago it would be laughed of the planet. The future is electric and that is well established. Look around you. All your tools are battery powered, E-bikes are everywhere. EVs make up 10% of new vehicles in Australia far less that most other developed countries except the US where the Trump factor has put a large dent in progress there. Formula E motor racing cars leave F1 vehicles in their wake. The government can't tax the sun. My EV costs me nothing to run and I pay nothing to power my house & get a credit for the excess. Sure I have had to make a capital investment but I calculated the benefits and they are paying off handsomely. 

 

Those who have chosen to change have ignored the massive anti EV and electric change by the fossil fuel industry. They know the writing is on the wall and are doing everything they can to delay it including lobbying governments. Twiggy Forrest is no fool and has invested $4 Billion with Leibherr for more than 360 fully electric dump trucks powered from their own solar farms. BHP & others are doing similar things. They are not stupid and know they need to be in the transition now and not when things turn to custard as they could even now with what the tangerine todler is doing.

 

 

The pollution caused by your green dream will be far worse than anyone wants to admit. I wish it was as easy as you say. I would love to have electric trucks that could charge overnight but I haven't found any that can do the job.

[onetrack]

Ikea are laughing all the way to the bank, as they turn their delivery fleet to electric. They have just purchased 4 Volvo electric trucks here, they can carry 5.5 tonnes and have a 450km range.

 

All the Perth bus fleet is going 100% electric Volvo buses. That's around 1700 buses. There's over 110 of them on Perth roads and highways already.

I've ridden in them, they are great - smooth, dead quiet, and very fast. No exhaust fumes, no gearchange jerks, and the drivers seem to like them.

 

The interesting part is, fossil fuel prices have rocketed up so much faster than electricity prices - so the cost of recharging an EV - even if you have to pay for it at a fast charger, hasn't gone up like fossil fuel prices have. And if you have solar panels you can recharge with, the recharge cost is zero and you can amortise the cost of the solar installation over many years.

 

Anyone who think the future is still in fossil fuels, is living in MAGA-land with the orange goon.

 

[BrendAn]

49 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Ikea are laughing all the way to the bank, as they turn their delivery fleet to electric. They have just purchased 4 Volvo electric trucks here, they can carry 5.5 tonnes and have a 450km range.

 

All the Perth bus fleet is going 100% electric Volvo buses. That's around 1700 buses. There's over 110 of them on Perth roads and highways already.

I've ridden in them, they are great - smooth, dead quiet, and very fast. No exhaust fumes, no gearchange jerks, and the drivers seem to like them.

 

The interesting part is, fossil fuel prices have rocketed up so much faster than electricity prices - so the cost of recharging an EV - even if you have to pay for it at a fast charger, hasn't gone up like fossil fuel prices have. And if you have solar panels you can recharge with, the recharge cost is zero and you can amortise the cost of the solar installation over many years.

 

Anyone who think the future is still in fossil fuels, is living in MAGA-land with the orange goon.

 

 

Edited 9 hours ago by BrendAn

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

I

Anyone who think the future is still in fossil fuels, is living in MAGA-land with the orange goon.

 

 

Shure there are a few who do not believe the future of land transport is electric and that one day all of our energy needs will be met by electricity. I am not one of them.

However your enthusiasm (lets call it that) may work, to some extent,  for the city/urban dweller but is yet to be economically viable beyond the burbs.

Its a bit like the free public transport that has been implemented by some States - does sweet FA for the outer city/country dwellers & businesses.

 

I think you are a little ahead of your time - One day there will be long life, light weight, fast charge batterie's and charging stations all over Au.

Land vehicles will have a 1000 + km range and recharge in minutes.

Small electric aircraft will have the range to safely fly between our major cities. 

Every house/community will have a battery, charged by the sun/wind, that will make them independent of the grid.

This is all tomorrow my friend - what of today?😈

[BrendAn]

16 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Shure there are a few who do not believe the future of land transport is electric and that one day all of our energy needs will be met by electricity. I am not one of them.

However your enthusiasm (lets call it that) may work, to some extent,  for the city/urban dweller but is yet to be economically viable beyond the burbs.

Its a bit like the free public transport that has been implemented by some States - does sweet FA for the outer city/country dwellers & businesses.

 

I think you are a little ahead of your time - One day there will be long life, light weight, fast charge batterie's and charging stations all over Au.

Land vehicles will have a 1000 + km range and recharge in minutes.

Small electric aircraft will have the range to safely fly between our major cities. 

Every house/community will have a battery, charged by the sun/wind, that will make them independent of the grid.

This is all tomorrow my friend - what of today?😈

Onetrack is posting electric trucks with half the range of what most people need for a day.  Electric buses might be ok in Perth around the city. It's flat and not much bigger than Ballarat.

[Ian]

Australia is reliant on foreign sources for crude and for refined fuel.

We haven't developed fossil fuel resources or alternatives such as biodiesel of alcohol.

When scarity makes the price of fuel rises, discretionary uses decline. The Grey nomads will stay closer to home, more people will catch public transport, deliveries will be bundled into larger bundles.

2 hours ago, BrendAn said:

The government has made a fortune the last few weeks. They are just returning some of our money.. 

The Government hasn't been making money from the increased price of fuel. Fuel excise is a flat rate per litre, saying otherwise is simply braying your ignorance to your peers.

If you want to blame someone blame Trump and his cronies. His idiotic fumblings threatens the world's economy.

[BrendAn]

2 minutes ago, Ian said:

Australia is reliant on foreign sources for crude and for refined fuel.

We haven't developed fossil fuel resources or alternatives such as biodiesel of alcohol.

When scarity makes the price of fuel rises, discretionary uses decline. The Grey nomads will stay closer to home, more people will catch public transport, deliveries will be bundled into larger bundles.

The Government hasn't been making money from the increased price of fuel. Fuel excise is a flat rate per litre, saying otherwise is simply braying your ignorance to your peers.

If you want to blame someone blame Trump and his cronies. His idiotic fumblings threatens the world's economy.

They have been raking in a fortune in GST when the price increases.

There is plenty of oil and gas but we have a left wing government set on net Zero rubbish which is costing us a fortune.  And making a mess of the environment at the same time.

[onetrack]

Quote

Electric buses might be ok in Perth around the city. It's flat and not much bigger than Ballarat

We have lots of people living in the Darling Ranges and further inland (that's over 70kms), and Perth City is one of the most spread-out in Australia. It stretches 150kms from Two Rocks in the N, to Dawesville in the S.

We also have the biggest grid batteries of any Australian State. The Transperth electric buses have a range of around 300kms, and utilise maximum regenerative braking.

The wheel brakes only operate at low speed, all other braking from above about 20kmh is pouring current back into the batteries. Plus, they recharge during the day at shift changes.

300kms is plenty of range for the average city bus. The myriads of solar panels on the roofs of Perth houses are pouring bulk electricity into those huge grid batteries all day, every day.

Add in the multiple wind farms and grid solar farms scattered throughout the State, and we are generating more than 55% of our power from renewable energy sources most of the time.

Electrical energy pricing fell 30% in W.A. last November, primarily due to renewable energy and big grid batteries. But I guess you reckoned those new-fangled electric lights were a fad, and you can't beat candles and oil lamps!

 

Key WA Grid Batteries (South West Interconnected System):

 

Synergy Collie Battery Energy Storage System (CBESS): Located in Collie, this state-owned facility boasts 500 MW capacity and 2,000 MWh, powering 785,000 homes for over 4 hours.

Neoen Collie Battery: A major project rated at 560 MW and 2,240 MWh, commissioned in Dec 2025, and WA’s largest grid battery.

Kwinana Battery Energy Storage System 1 (KBESS1): A 100 MW/200 MWh battery located at the decommissioned Kwinana Power Station.

Kwinana Battery Energy Storage System 2 (KBESS2): Currently in development, aimed at expanding capacity.

 

Edited 7 hours ago by onetrack

[BrendAn]

3 hours ago, onetrack said:

We have lots of people living in the Darling Ranges and further inland (that's over 70kms), and Perth City is one of the most spread-out in Australia. It stretches 150kms from Two Rocks in the N, to Dawesville in the S.

We also have the biggest grid batteries of any Australian State. The Transperth electric buses have a range of around 300kms, and utilise maximum regenerative braking.

The wheel brakes only operate at low speed, all other braking from above about 20kmh is pouring current back into the batteries. Plus, they recharge during the day at shift changes.

300kms is plenty of range for the average city bus. The myriads of solar panels on the roofs of Perth houses are pouring bulk electricity into those huge grid batteries all day, every day.

Add in the multiple wind farms and grid solar farms scattered throughout the State, and we are generating more than 55% of our power from renewable energy sources most of the time.

Electrical energy pricing fell 30% in W.A. last November, primarily due to renewable energy and big grid batteries. But I guess you reckoned those new-fangled electric lights were a fad, and you can't beat candles and oil lamps!

 

Key WA Grid Batteries (South West Interconnected System):

 

Synergy Collie Battery Energy Storage System (CBESS): Located in Collie, this state-owned facility boasts 500 MW capacity and 2,000 MWh, powering 785,000 homes for over 4 hours.

Neoen Collie Battery: A major project rated at 560 MW and 2,240 MWh, commissioned in Dec 2025, and WA’s largest grid battery.

Kwinana Battery Energy Storage System 1 (KBESS1): A 100 MW/200 MWh battery located at the decommissioned Kwinana Power Station.

Kwinana Battery Energy Storage System 2 (KBESS2): Currently in development, aimed at expanding capacity.

 

I know Perth. I lived there and worked in canning Vale for a while. Used to cart grain to Joe whites and pick up super from Kwinana as well.

Dawesville and two rocks are not Perth. Glad you have batteries that last 4 hours. Wow.

What's the carbon footprint of that lot. You sound like a typical labour lefty. No concern at all for anything outside the city.  What else can you cut and paste.