Light plane plunges into the ocean south of Adelaide 6/2/26

[facthunter]

It's EXTREMELY UNLIKELY. Really. Nev

[onetrack]

I would imagine a student panicking at the controls, and keeping the controls held in the wrong directions, would be a major problem, for even an experienced instructor. Vital seconds could be lost trying to get a student to let go.

[facthunter]

How you would ever confirm such a thing in this case is Beyond Me.  It's also a bit odd to Have a  PAX when you are Instructing some one. Nev

[turboplanner]

37 minutes ago, facthunter said:

How you would ever confirm such a thing in this case is Beyond Me.  It's also a bit odd to Have a  PAX when you are Instructing some one. Nev

Well we'll know all that from the ATSB report.

 

We're not talking about a Thruster or Jabiru here; we're not even talking about a Cessna 172 or Cherokee Warrior. I've done some flying in a 210 and even when you're in the circuit it need a lot more attention to detail for the higher workload, there's a lot more power which quickly changes one event to another.       

 

As I mentioned, there will be an ATSB report and it might show something entirely different to pilot skills - like a structural failure.

[facthunter]

Why are you directing that info to Me? I didn't come down in Yesterdays SHOWER. Speculation is flourishing. Ther's NO Black boxes. Nev

[Student Pilot]

It's been reported the instructor involved was known to demonstrate spins in the 210

[BrendAn]

6 minutes ago, Student Pilot said:

It's been reported the instructor involved was known to demonstrate spins in the 210

i doubt that he would have done that unless at safe recovery height. 

 

[Student Pilot]

6 hours ago, turboplanner said:

Well we'll know all that from the ATSB report.

 

We're not talking about a Thruster or Jabiru here; we're not even talking about a Cessna 172 or Cherokee Warrior. I've done some flying in a 210 and even when you're in the circuit it need a lot more attention to detail for the higher workload, there's a lot more power which quickly changes one event to another.       

 

As I mentioned, there will be an ATSB report and it might show something entirely different to pilot skills - like a structural failure.

1 The ATSB have been known to get it wrong.

2 Yes a 210 will bite but it's hardly the space shuttle.

3 See point one.

[Student Pilot]

Just now, BrendAn said:

i doubt that he would have done that unless at safe recovery height. 

 

That would be 8,000' with a developed spin in a 210, they lose a lot of height very quickly.

[facthunter]

I Can't see why( IF he knew what He was doing) that He would come  to grief  EXCEPT IT's illegal. The Most "G" pulled would be in the recovery dive pullout and shouldn't exceed  2.5G in normal circumstances. It's NOT something I would EVER do  as you never Know if you will encounter a Gust as well and the Plane is not stressed for it.  You Must also think of the example you  are setting .  Nev

[BrendAn]

 

[peterg]

8 hours ago, facthunter said:

How you would ever confirm such a thing in this case is Beyond Me.  It's also a bit odd to Have a  PAX when you are Instructing some one. Nev

Not uncommon in IFR training - helps the learning process

Also occurs in sim training - ask your airline mates

[3rd harmonic]

Further to the comments i made previously.

Leo was a very measured, easy going kind of guy, who generally wasn't in a rush at any point.

When he instructed me on incipient's, he LECTURED me at some length about doing stalls or spin practice at a safe height so as to be FULLY recovered by 3000ft

He made the point that Martin, as a master pilot with a low level endorsement, could do so those maneuvers to a lower level legally.

And I have seen Martin, doing spins in the great lakes biplane and because the biplane has reduced moment of inertia in the roll axis especially it spins in a tight cork screw VERY quickly. 

For everyone else that rule was LAW! 

Based on that i think it would be fair to say that what happened was NOT a planned maneuver.

Has anyone found the ADSB track to know what height they were at, i gather it wasn't very high?

As Nev said, there really is no obvious reason it should have happened, but no-one is beyond distraction and that may have been a factor given the training environment.

 

 

[facthunter]

I'm thinking of in a plane such as this is.. In a full motion sim which I have about 450 Hours in you certainly can't be in it without being strapped in  securely. or you can be seriously injured but they don't crash and burn like the real thing can. In a crew checking detail in a jet airliner  Its common to change Pilots to do about SIX  one after the other. Nev

[RenegadeMan]

12 hours ago, 3rd harmonic said:

Based on that i think it would be fair to say that what happened was NOT a planned maneuver.

Has anyone found the ADSB track to know what height they were at, i gather it wasn't very high?

With the photo of the wreckage showing the gear down and (appearing to be) locked, this suggests the aircraft had been configured for the approach. Where it went down is still a fair way outside the Goolwa circuit so it is possible the PIC was either demonstrating a stall in a power-on, gear & flaps out config or he had one of the young guys at the controls stall it in that config to show how it reacts. It's then perhaps dropped a wing violently, gotten away from him and with a passenger in the back the CG is too far aft to recover it in the available altitude. A simple stall in the approach configuration has turned into a disaster.

 

I ran through a playback on FR24 an hour either side of the accident time and the flight's not on there at all. The last recorded flight was on 4/Feb/26 from Port Augusta to Parafield so, for some unknown reason, the ADSB-out was switched off.

[Thruster88]

The aircraft does not appear to have adsb. FR24 data has only come from atc radar.

[peterg]

1 hour ago, RenegadeMan said:

With the photo of the wreckage showing the gear down and (appearing to be) locked, this suggests the aircraft had been configured for the approach. Where it went down is still a fair way outside the Goolwa circuit so it is possible the PIC was either demonstrating a stall in a power-on, gear & flaps out config or he had one of the young guys at the controls stall it in that config to show how it reacts. It's then perhaps dropped a wing violently, gotten away from him and with a passenger in the back the CG is too far aft to recover it in the available altitude. A simple stall in the approach configuration has turned into a disaster.

 

I ran through a playback on FR24 an hour either side of the accident time and the flight's not on there at all. The last recorded flight was on 4/Feb/26 from Port Augusta to Parafield so, for some unknown reason, the ADSB-out was switched off.

Maybe doing a simulated RNAV approach (none published) under the hood with the instructor as safety pilot and the observer keeping lookout - not much cumulo granitas over the water so reasonably safe - overcooked the final approach turn and ... - who knows

 

Or maybe UA recovery under the hood (head between the knees looking for the dropped pen was a fav during my training and renewals)  and couldn't recover - unlikely as a spiral the likely result and the wings seemed to be there on impact and the Dunlops were down - approach problem and too low to recover seems likely - all speculation

 

A 210 is not usually a basic trainer but a reasonably good stable IFR platform for SE IFR training so unlikely a basic training day - maybe a commercial training nav or fir - flight plan will show that