Crash after 3D printed air intake collapses. Good heads up for us kit builders

[danny_galaga]

9 hours ago, Moneybox said:

Coming back to the original cause of the accident, somebody designed a very nice looking air duct. They obviously had the skills to draw it in 3D, so better than most of us can do however they may not have had the skills to understand the properties of the material used.

I spent many years doing things like this, not aeronautical but automotive. I designed and build all components for LH to RH conversion, steering boxes, pitman arms, idler arms, pedals etc. I also made the airconditioning/heater and dash components. Perhaps the difference was I started out as a motor mechanic and then studied mechanical engineering before designing and building components for sale.

Whoever designed this air duct may have had sufficient skills to develop the component but insufficient skills to engineer it suitable for it's intended use. I think it's ok to build something like this for your own use but perhaps this item should never have been sold?

 

It's a little puzzling, isn't it? There's a lot of skill designing that. It seems incongruous that the same person didn't take into account the heat range. I can think of two scenarios. Either the file was sent off to somewhere to print and they misunderstood the brief, or else maybe there was an engine fire or something that heated it up way beyond reasonable, with fire somehow extinguishing itself when it crashed. Although having just said that, with engine stopped you'd think the fire would be less likely to go out, not more 🤔

[Blueadventures]

55 minutes ago, danny_galaga said:

It's a little puzzling, isn't it? There's a lot of skill designing that. It seems incongruous that the same person didn't take into account the heat range. I can think of two scenarios. Either the file was sent off to somewhere to print and they misunderstood the brief, or else maybe there was an engine fire or something that heated it up way beyond reasonable, with fire somehow extinguishing itself when it crashed. Although having just said that, with engine stopped you'd think the fire would be less likely to go out, not more 🤔

Not much to go on but looking at the metal piece attached to the bottom of the duct which may be a heat shield and therefore perhaps a cracked exhaust or exhaust flange failure has allowed exhaust heat gas to directly affect the duct.  Looks like higher temp degrading the right side of the duct prior to the duct structure collapsing in its softened state.

Edited Saturday at 10:48 PM by Blueadventures

[skippydiesel]

All these interesting stories about people falling off ladders/crashing cars, are only slightly related to the core topic The Right OF An Adult To Take Risks With Their Own Welfare - to wit the pilot who installed a home made duct in his aircraft.

 

I contend that is is an inalienable right, that all mentally competent people have, on reaching their legal majority.

• This right does not nullify an individuals responsibility to his fellows - Duty of Care (DofC) ie must not involve others in potential injury/death/loss of assets, due to their risk taking.
• Nor does it give the individual the right to wilfully ignore, with impunity, rules made by Clubs/Business and similar organisation who have a DofC to their membership/employees. Where this does occur the organisation must in the first insistence council/educate the individual, if if this fails to acheive adherence, dismissal is the only option.
• The above approach should not and can not be readily applied to society - an adult who refuses to wear a seat belt, is in my view stupid, however I defend their right to make this decision, without legal repercussion. This does not mean that an insurance company will or should accept a claim, where such an action has resulted in injury/death.

The last point needs clarification:

• We can not avoid our history. There was a time when religion and Government were combined. Religion is all about control of ALL aspects of the individual, from birth, reproduction, diet, behaviour, thought, death the "after life" - the ultimate "Big Brother".
• Religion has given us many things, both posative & negative.
• One of the negatives, is the concept that the State (religion) owns the individual (akin to slavery) so they have no rights over their own person. This was fine in the past, the rare expression of individuality, by the common man, usually resulted in banishment/imprisonment/death. In extreme instances this also applied to the ruling classes . 
• We live in diffrent times - A significant number (the majority?) claim no religious affiliation and we are supposed to have a separation between Church (religion) & State ie no direct influence.
• Despite the illusion of no religious influence, we still have this ridiculous idea that the State has the right to intrude, on what should be personal decisions ie the State owns you and will make decisions, as it sees fit, for the maintenance of its asset (your welfare) .
• I contend that the State should have no input into the personal decisions/actions of the adult individual, where that input is primarily design to protect the said individual from themselves. eg wearing of car seat belts.
• I also support the need for the population to be protected, by the State/law, from wilfully dangerous actions of individuals.
• Further, I support the actions of the State where is tries to foster by promotion/non direct action (laws) a culture of safety that will be willingly adopted by the vast majority. In contrast we have a Government culture (Nanny State) that seeks to protect us from our own actions, not by education/training but by draconian (often illogical) restriction, safety systems designed to reduce injury/death, rather than prevent accidents.😈

 

 

[Paulo]

I thought the core topic was that the part was not fit for purpose.

[facthunter]

And you still want access to controlled airspace and be allowed to fly over houses and expect assistance when you come unstuck? Also where do insurance costs go, for the rest of us? RPT won't want to Mix with you because of this type of attitude. IF you design and Make something (any Part) TEST it Prior to  flying as you have responsibility to  do and was always done in the Past by anyone with half a Brain.  Your enemies will be Lapping up what has been said here. It's a Public Forum after all. I support the right To  design  and Innovate  but not in a way that deteriorates  a GOOD Design. People should be able to Build something like a Bleriot X1 and fly it on appropriate occasions.

  IF you want to be a "Sovereign Citizen" attitude person I suggest don't be an aviator where getting it RIGHT is essential to survival. Both personally and the Movement. The average person in the street couldn't care a fig whether our little Planes are allowed or Not. "TOO Tough to CARE" people are affected by gravity also.  TALK is cheap. Nev

[BrendAn]

26 minutes ago, facthunter said:

And you still want access to controlled airspace and be allowed to fly over houses and expect assistance when you come unstuck? Also where do insurance costs go, for the rest of us? RPT won't want to Mix with you because of this type of attitude. IF you design and Make something (any Part) TEST it Prior to  flying as you have responsibility to  do and was always done in the Past by anyone with half a Brain.  Your enemies will be Lapping up what has been said here. It's a Public Forum after all. I support the right To  design  and Innovate  but not in a way that deteriorates  a GOOD Design. People should be able to Build something like a Bleriot X1 and fly it on appropriate occasions.

  IF you want to be a "Sovereign Citizen" attitude person I suggest don't be an aviator where getting it RIGHT is essential to survival. Both personally and the Movement. The average person in the street couldn't care a fig whether our little Planes are allowed or Not. "TOO Tough to CARE" people are affected by gravity also.  TALK is cheap. Nev

who are you talking to.

[facthunter]

Anyone it applies to.  Nev

[BrendAn]

4 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Anyone it applies to.  Nev

 The posts were about the freedom to do what you want within reason without involving passengers or flying near people. Basically what part 103 is in the USA.  you , turbo and one-track have all gone overboard with your replies.  

 

[skippydiesel]

29 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

 The posts were about the freedom to do what you want within reason without involving passengers or flying near people. Basically what part 103 is in the USA.  you , turbo and one-track have all gone overboard with your replies.  

 

Agreed - Those apposed would label you and I "Sovereign Citizen"  without some much as shred of evidence for this libalest talk.

 

My guess, they do this because they :

• Don't  actual read what we have said, rather substitute their own biased thinking.
• Have such poor English comprehension, so misunderstand.
• Are so set in their ways, they cannot entertain an alternative rational.

I think you & I have tried very hard to present polite, logical, well thought out arguments, without stooping to name calling/labeling. 

 

Nuff said - will try to avoid (not promising) responding to any more irrational arguments.

 

😈 

[facthunter]

You are "expert" at not getting the Point. Some attitudes being expressed ARE similar to those of the sovereign citizen Movement. Is that NOT a Reasonable allegation? You dish plenty out so you should be able to Cop some good questions as well. Fair enough?  Nev

[BrendAn]

19 minutes ago, facthunter said:

You are "expert" at not getting the Point. Some attitudes being expressed ARE similar to those of the sovereign citizen Movement. Is that NOT a Reasonable allegation? You dish plenty out so you should be able to Cop some good questions as well. Fair enough?  Nev

I am not getting into another shit fight with you. No one can have an opinion that is not aligned with your views.  I know what I meant,you want to interpret it differently that's your problem.

[turboplanner]

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

• I contend that the State should have no input into the personal decisions/actions of the adult individual, where that input is primarily design to protect the said individual from themselves. eg wearing of car seat belts.
• I also support the need for the population to be protected, by the State/law, from wilfully dangerous actions of individuals.

Which one do you want?

What happens if, in an accident you become catapulted through the windscreen and the uncontrolled car kills a family vs the person with a seat belt still having control over the car.

 

The system we have now allows high risk activity in many sports and recreational activities which might have been shut down under the previous State control on the grounds of affordability.

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, BrendAn said:

 The posts were about the freedom to do what you want within reason without involving passengers or flying near people. Basically what part 103 is in the USA.  you , turbo and one-track have all gone overboard with your replies.  

 

You've carried on about Part 103 for long enough. Part 103 is a United States class, not Australian, and it comes with US Safety standards.

The constant BS about it send people away when they have the Australian equivalent to fly and the freedoms available in Australia.

Most of these flyers operate under another Self Administering Organization where they can ger the correct information and guidance.

 

 

[Moneybox]

I'm no expert on 3D printing but I think you'll find that in most cases the melting point of the product used is quite low to assist in the welding process.

[facthunter]

I wasn't talking to you BrendAn. I was replying to Skip.. Nev

[Marty_d]

PLA is extruded around 190-230 degrees (I use 200) and I've seen printed products left outside warp from normal sunlight.

Definitely wouldn't be using anything made of PLA in a warm place. Even dishwasher parts at 60% infill warp in heat and pressure.

[Marty_d]

For example 

 

Tail end of a winged keel (ie 1.5m of 100mm uPVC filled with FCR) I made for a homemade sailboat competition last year. Whole thing has warped sideways as well as the "wings" now warped.

[BrendAn]

55 minutes ago, Moneybox said:

I'm no expert on 3D printing but I think you'll find that in most cases the melting point of the product used is quite low to assist in the welding process.

Will you people please stop sticking to the topic. 

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

I wasn't talking to you BrendAn. I was replying to Skip.. Nev

I think Skippy is being taken out of context here too. We can go on about this for years. 

[facthunter]

Yeah. You Pair stick together. Look I just talk straight. OK?  People are allowed to Have different Opinions.  You Both dish Plenty out and set yourselves up a bit.  Do you expect a free ride? Nev

[BrendAn]

21 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Yeah. You Pair stick together. Look I just talk straight. OK?  People are allowed to Have different Opinions.  You Both dish Plenty out and set yourselves up a bit.  Do you expect a free ride? Nev

I don't expect a free ride that's why I donate to this forum each year😁 I pay to get shot down in flames. It's all good. I have a box of tissues if I need them.

Edited Sunday at 03:53 AM by BrendAn

[facthunter]

Grow up.  Nev

[Thruster88]

Back on topic of 3d printed parts, Jabiru apparently have a printed intake part, presumably it is made of the right stuff. Can be seen at the 4min mark in this somewhat educational video. 

 

 

[danny_galaga]

3 hours ago, Marty_d said:

PLA is extruded around 190-230 degrees (I use 200) and I've seen printed products left outside warp from normal sunlight.

Definitely wouldn't be using anything made of PLA in a warm place. Even dishwasher parts at 60% infill warp in heat and pressure.

Yes, I actually mentioned earlier I had made a pla part and painted it. Then thought leaving it in the sun would dry it faster. Warped in less than an hour 😄

 

And now for ultimate thread drift, the part in question, a custom controller for the Sega mega drive pinball game, Dragons Fury. The eyes are the flippers, 'nose bone' is PAUSE/START and you rattle his skull for tilt ☺️

 

The base plate warped in the sun, but I managed to straighten it up enough with a hair dryer.

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

Grow up.  Nev

 

Edited Sunday at 06:01 AM by BrendAn