Operators V Pilots

[skippydiesel]

42 minutes ago, T510 said:

I

A drone still needs to be flown, the controls need to be manipulated to make the aircraft fly, the person manipulating those controls is flying the aircraft, therefore they are a pilot.

 

CASA, FAA, EASA, NZ CAA etc all recognise that the person who flies the drone is a drone pilot, and needs the appropriate qualifications and training to get their drone pilots licence. 

 

So given the vast majority of aviation regulators issue drone pilot licences it would appear that you are the one guilty of the misuse of language.

 

I tried to use the Macquarie dictionary but it would appear you need to be a subscriber to get their definitions

 

Okay - For illustration purposes I will use a non aviation, very common, misuse of a technical term-

 

What does the word FERTILITY mean to you,  in the context of an individual, breeding pair, population?

 

Fertility refers to the potential to breed/reproduce.

 

When the media/politicians talk about the low rate of natural human reproduction in Australia (also most first world countries) they use the term INFERTILE or LOW FERTILITY as in the Countries Low Fertility Rate. There is no such thing as a fertility RATE.

 

I think we all know what they mean - women are not having as many babies as they used too. This does not excuses the incorrect language ,which is actually saying Australian women have lost the ability to reproduce in whole or part (and/or the men likewise). Clearly this is untrue as for the most part women choose to limit the number or not to have children ie they are FERTILE but choose not to exercise their reproductive potential.

 

Putting it another way - A woman who has many children, may not be any more fertile, than one who chooses to have none.

 

The correct term to describe the rate/success of reproducing is FECUND or FECUNDITY. In the above example, the woman with many children would exhibit high fecundity, the fertile woman who chooses to have none, is not fecund.

 

So the use of the incorrect word is portraying a situation that is actually untrue.

 

Back to Pilots & Drone Operators - Its importance (at lest to me) to differentiate between the two activities:

 

Drone Operator	Pilot
Manipulates an aircraft from afar.	Seated within the aircraft, direct “hands on” the controls.
Unless within close visual range, completely dependent on electronic signals to achieve control.	Physically interacts with the aircraft. Often with the support of electronic input.
Likely dependent on some form of onboard gyroscopic stability system to keep the aircraft on an “even keel”	With the exception of IFR/IMC Pilot flies with reference to horizon to maintained aircraft orientation.
May require a license or not.	Must have a license (to be PIC)
Aircraft maybe used as a weapon	Aircraft may be a platform for delivering weapons, however, with the exception of “suicide missions” the aircraft & pilot are not usually sacrificed.
Immediate/future wellbeing is not usually at risk.	Has increased risk from falling.

 

 

😈

[facthunter]

We are Just going around in circles. If you can FLY the simulator in a properly set up organised course you can just jump in a Plane you have never been in the cockpit of before and fly the REAL plane without any assistance..  weighing 200 tonnes and overpowered (Empty).  Nev

[T510]

22 minutes ago, BurnieM said:

The meaning of a word is whatever the legislation in your country says it means regardless of common usage.

 

If it is undefined in law then who cares ?

 

This sums it up, it's well defined internationally.

 

Some people just can't accept that they are wrong and just want to argue for the sake of arguing. 

 

Skip, maybe you should take it up with CASA etc if you want them to change the term, I'm sure they will be happy to update their glossary once you show them your fecundity/fertility argument🙄🤣

[facthunter]

Pedantic?   IF it becomes the subject of a LAW case, Dog help you. Nev

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, T510 said:

This sums it up, it's well defined internationally.

 

Some people just can't accept that they are wrong and just want to argue for the sake of arguing. 

 

Skip, maybe you should take it up with CASA etc if you want them to change the term, I'm sure they will be happy to update their glossary once you show them your fecundity/fertility argument🙄🤣

Its not a matter of being wrong (because I'm not 🤣) its annoyance at unnecessarily loose terminology. I think it has already been established - I like a good debate.

 

I accept that the use of language is a dynamic communication system ie constant changes in meaning  (I used to think being gay meant something else🤨) and new words are being added daily to describe novel technologies / situations. This is unavoidable.

 

What I find annoying is when perfectly good precise descriptors (technical)  become or are replaced by loose multi meaning words, that require additional language to put into context. So now a Pilot is not someone who controls an aircraft/boat from within but also a person who controls a similar machine from a distance. All three have differing skills, normally not interchangeable and must have further descriptors to clarify their activity. Whats wrong with the term Drone Operator ? There is an immediate understanding of what this person does, the only further clarification might be Land/Marine/Air .

 

I will always be fighting a loosing battle (part of my nature), as dictionaries merely document change (after the fact) and the law changes as it sees fit to accomodate litigation.

 

CASA, in common with most bureaucracies, sees change (most often for no good reason) as a measure of progress, which it associate (incorrectly) with efficiency - some "shinny bum"  gets a promotion out of it & we, the proletariat, meet whatever cost is incurred.😈

[BrendAn]

This thread is in the running for most pointless of 2025.

It's more boring than the ones I start😁.

This is from a pilot, operator or maybe I am airflow control technician 

[pmccarthy]

If you can sit in a drone then it is not a drone it is an aircraft.

[facthunter]

I'm a crafty disturber of air, defying gravity, dynamically.  Nev

[skippydiesel]

4 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

If you can sit in a drone then it is not a drone it is an aircraft.

Drones (used to be called remotely controlled......) come in land, sea & air variants.

 

Just about any mobile machine you can think of, has (or soon will) a drone equivalent.

 

All sizes from toys, to WA ore trains, to trans pacific flight capability.

 

One day, airliners will be autonomous - who need pilots????😈

[facthunter]

Who wants to fly without them? Nev

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

Who wants to fly without them? Nev

and that is what will keep pilots in a job.

look at the uproar when airlines wanted to have single pilots .

there is also the problem of fly by wire.  if you read the story of the airbus that  had the uncommanded descents over wa, the pilot from that said when the electronics fail there is nothing the flight crew can do.  as you said earlier a backup mechanical control would be reassuring.

[facthunter]

I'm not so sure about the Accuracy of some of these statements about doing nothing. They landed an Airbus using  the Pitch effect of engine thrust to flare it in IRAQ. That's why you need Good Pilots. Nev

[BrendAn]

19 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I'm not so sure about the Accuracy of some of these statements about doing nothing. They landed an Airbus using  the Pitch effect of engine thrust to flare it in IRAQ. That's why you need Good Pilots. Nev

try doing that if your throttles are not available .   i am pretty sure the qantas captain i was talking about would have some idea about flying.

[facthunter]

 It's possible you didn't get the message right too. I can't believe they would ever make a Plane where Nothing worked. You can go into different Modes/ There's always redundancy or some fall Back position. Pilots would not fly a Plane that was designed like that.  It wouldn't get certification. .  Nev

[Moneybox]

My friend in Echuca allows his Ottopilot to take over the Jabiru controls on long trips.

 

 

Otto is in the right seat, is he still the Pilot or just an over inflated driver?

[onetrack]

He's obviously full of inflated self-importance.

[Marty_d]

He might be a useful bloke to hold on to in the event of a "water landing".

[BrendAn]

They had the same autopilot in flying high.

Anyone remember the hostess pumping it up.

[Reynard]

[Reynard]

After all this dialogue I still don’t know what you call the person not in control of an autonomous drone.

[facthunter]

A Quandary.  Nev

[Moneybox]

4 hours ago, facthunter said:

A Quandary.  Nev

What an unusual name...