Zonsen Aero Engines - Rapture Aviation (Adelaide)

[Moneybox]

13 hours ago, Blueadventures said:

It would have been a good development to increase the cross over pipe at the time of doing the casting patterns for the intake manifolds as there is good feedback from those that do such about the smoother idle and possibility of operating at 50% power in the instance of one throttle cable / connection breaking and engine going to full power on one carby.  Would have been a good change to what Rotax have there in my opinion. (I'm open / planning to increase my R ULS balance pipe i.d. size.)

An interesting scenario, the possibility of running on all four with a broken throttle cable however I think that would be an unlikely failure on a regularly serviced engine. I think you'd need to do a lot of testing before you went to the expense of making casting patterns.

 

I've built plenty but molds but to cast a manifold is expensive. You first have to form the sand core in a mold. Then the core is fitted into the mold and the molten metal fills the cavity in between. Complex and expensive so you need to sell plenty to cover developments costs.

[facthunter]

IF the cable fails, the throttle goes to OPEN. Nev

[Blueadventures]

11 hours ago, Moneybox said:

An interesting scenario, the possibility of running on all four with a broken throttle cable however I think that would be an unlikely failure on a regularly serviced engine. I think you'd need to do a lot of testing before you went to the expense of making casting patterns.

 

I've built plenty but molds but to cast a manifold is expensive. You first have to form the sand core in a mold. Then the core is fitted into the mold and the molten metal fills the cavity in between. Complex and expensive so you need to sell plenty to cover developments costs.

It could have been so easy for them as they have their patterns / casting method and could have just allowed for a bit more material so a larger diameter hole could have been made.  In my opinion they miss a possible opportunity to perhaps make an improvement on the Rotax design.  Opportunity missed , I say.

[Moneybox]

2 hours ago, Blueadventures said:

It could have been so easy for them as they have their patterns / casting method and could have just allowed for a bit more material so a larger diameter hole could have been made.  In my opinion they miss a possible opportunity to perhaps make an improvement on the Rotax design.  Opportunity missed , I say.

On the other hand they were smart enough to simply copy a well proved design just like the Japs did to produce some very successful post war motor vehicles.

[skippydiesel]

Just like the Japanese indeed - they only improved a design, where they think its worthwhile to do so.

 

A Big Balance tube serves no practical purpose, other than to lighten the wallet (this topic has been thoroughly discussed, elsewhere on this and the Rotax Owners Forum - its a gimmick!)😈

[facthunter]

It's a VERY LONG time since Japanese copied Mainly English Vehicles.  The Datsun 180B motor appears to be based on a Mercedes 190.. The Bellet was copied from a Hillman  Toyota used some Help/liason from Cosworth and Yamaha. Ford and Mazda partnered. Datsun Became NISSAN. Nev

[BrendAn]

12 minutes ago, facthunter said:

It's a VERY LONG time since Japanese copied Mainly English Vehicles.  The Datsun 180B motor appears to be based on a Mercedes 190.. The Bellet was copied from a Hillman  Toyota used some Help/liason from Cosworth and Yamaha. Ford and Mazda partnered. Datsun Became NISSAN. Nev

where can i look up your information. i have never heard of the 180b being a merc copy.

i know the datsun 1600 was copied off a bmw and a lot of people say it was better than the bmw.

ford bought into mazda when the rotary nearly broke them

[Moneybox]

I started my apprenticeship in 1969 working for Bedgood's Bakery at Paddington in Brisbane. At one point the Datson 1200 delivery vehicle overheated and cracked the head. We had an old retired Morris J-type parked in the corner. I looked at the engines and they were so similar I removed the head. All I had to do was grind a little off the bottom of the thermostat housing to clear the Datsun water pump and it fitted right on.

[facthunter]

The Morris J Van had a Sidevalve Morris OXFORD motor in it. About 2 Litres. Early 50s Vintage. Good at cracking valve seats. My Cousin delivered milk in One. HE OWNED the dairy as well and I reconditioned Plenty  of them where I worked. Early Datsuns copied  Austin (BMC) motors. Not the BEST motor to have copied.

  BrenDAn I've  serviced a Merc 190 . ( a very COLLECTABLE CAR) and MY best Mate rallied  Datsuns from the 1600 up to Stanza SSS factory Racing specs  and components. There's NO BMW motor I've seen that remotely resembles the Datsun Have a Look at the Merc Motor 4 Cyl single cam.  Nev

[skippydiesel]

I had  Nissan Skyline , bought 2nd hand, back in the early 1980's Not sure but think the engine was 2.4L.

Car all Nissan, disk brakes, independent suspension & very nice to drive - engine looked to be almost an exact copy (less the star on the rocker box) of a Mercedes.😈

[Moneybox]

16 minutes ago, facthunter said:

The Morris J Van had a Sidevalve Morris OXFORD motor in it. About 2 Litres. Early 50s Vintage. Good at cracking valve seats. My Cousin delivered milk in One. HE OWNED the dairy as well and I reconditioned Plenty  of them where I worked. Early Datsuns copied  Austin (BMC) motors. Not the BEST motor to have copied.

  BrenDAn I've  serviced a Merc 190 . ( a very COLLECTABLE CAR) and MY best Mate rallied  Datsuns from the 1600 up to Stanza SSS factory Racing specs  and components. There's NO BMW motor I've seen that remotely resembles the Datsun Have a Look at the Merc Motor 4 Cyl single cam.  Nev

 

As usual you are right Nev however they later updated to overhead valve.

 

Morris J-Type engines are the robust, utilitarian powerplants, primarily the 1476cc side-valve four-cylinder derived from the Morris Oxford MO, used in the iconic Morris J-Type light commercial vans from 1949, later updated to the 1489cc BMC B-Series overhead-valve engine in the JB model and Austin 101 variant, known for reliability in various service roles like postal delivery. 

[BrendAn]

24 minutes ago, facthunter said:

The Morris J Van had a Sidevalve Morris OXFORD motor in it. About 2 Litres. Early 50s Vintage. Good at cracking valve seats. My Cousin delivered milk in One. HE OWNED the dairy as well and I reconditioned Plenty  of them where I worked. Early Datsuns copied  Austin (BMC) motors. Not the BEST motor to have copied.

  BrenDAn I've  serviced a Merc 190 . ( a very COLLECTABLE CAR) and MY best Mate rallied  Datsuns from the 1600 up to Stanza SSS factory Racing specs  and components. There's NO BMW motor I've seen that remotely resembles the Datsun Have a Look at the Merc Motor 4 Cyl single cam.  Nev

 

25 minutes ago, facthunter said:

The Morris J Van had a Sidevalve Morris OXFORD motor in it. About 2 Litres. Early 50s Vintage. Good at cracking valve seats. My Cousin delivered milk in One. HE OWNED the dairy as well and I reconditioned Plenty  of them where I worked. Early Datsuns copied  Austin (BMC) motors. Not the BEST motor to have copied.

  BrenDAn I've  serviced a Merc 190 . ( a very COLLECTABLE CAR) and MY best Mate rallied  Datsuns from the 1600 up to Stanza SSS factory Racing specs  and components. There's NO BMW motor I've seen that remotely resembles the Datsun Have a Look at the Merc Motor 4 Cyl single cam.  Nev

An engineer from Kenworth told me the Datsun 1600 was a BMW copy and they were a better car. He was from Kenworth though not Datsun.

On the highway between sale and Stratford is an old garage. Local rumour is that the owner was the original importer of datsun and he made his fortune off royaltys

[facthunter]

 BrenDAn there's some mention of the BMW Neue Klasse  " Inspiring"  the Datsun 1600 Motor but it doesn't appear to be anything like it externally or technically and had many variants. The 200B preceded it but was considered too BIG for the High cost Fuel Market at the time so the smaller capacity engine was used. There's NO comparison between those Beemers and a Datsun .At one stage the BWW ROAD Motors were the basis of their F1 Motors. We did have one of the Beemers come in that was MAKING Hard Metal in the valve gear section (Hard steel on Hard steel) and the metal bits contaminated the rest of the engine and Knackered it, EVENTUALLY. Might have been an early Model. I think they warranteed it.

  If you are interested look up the Coventry Climax FWB Motor. The fire Pump Engine that Became a race car Motor. It looks like a Datsun. and became the inspiration of the SMALL Hillman IMP car engine.  Also IF you can dig it up the details of a 50s/ 60s  MERC. 190SL Coupe engine 4 cyl and view that. Nev

[skippydiesel]

Hi BrendAn,

 

I stand to be corrected; - Mercedes have never made a 190 car. They have made a series of 190 engines (190, 190E, 190D, etc). The 190 refers to 1.9L. The car, the engine is fitted to, wil be  a W??? 190?😈

[onetrack]

Has this website turned into an auto forum? I saw someone complaining about another poster talking about car engines, and that someone roasted the other poster, and told him to go to an auto forum!

[facthunter]

I know the car I serviced.  Have you TRIED Looking it up? You'll mostly get later  High Performance. stuff. This  thing would Make about 160 Km/100 MPH Flat out. Nothing Racy about it .A 2 Liter Riley would do about the same. Engine not easy to get at either. I only worked on it because the Owner was a Friend and he was CARING about it. Nev

[BrendAn]

3 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Has this website turned into an auto forum? I saw someone complaining about another poster talking about car engines, and that someone roasted the other poster, and told him to go to an auto forum!

That was me, you can say it.

If you can't beat em. Join em😁.

[facthunter]

Cars DRIFT in Corners when you Push them Hard. Most of us have HAD a car or 2, or 20.  Some people put car engines in Planes Even Hillman IMPS.Nev

[facthunter]

FORD T and A models in Pietenpols.. Holden alloy V8s in Glider TUG planes.  Nev

[skippydiesel]

52 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Has this website turned into an auto forum? I saw someone complaining about another poster talking about car engines, and that someone roasted the other poster, and told him to go to an auto forum!

One of the attractive features of this Forum, is the wonderful tangents the conversation can go to, without people getting all huffy about adhering to the origional topic.

 

Sure it can be frustrating, if you are after targeted advice - most often a gentle reminder, will bring the responders back on topic.😈

[Blueadventures]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

Has this website turned into an auto forum? I saw someone complaining about another poster talking about car engines, and that someone roasted the other poster, and told him to go to an auto forum!

Not really, but, hey did I tell you I got my new ASIC card the other day, all good for another 2 years. Cheers🙃

Edited 6 hours ago by Blueadventures

[facthunter]

That will stir Skippy UP.  Nev

[Rastus]

3 hours ago, facthunter said:

FORD T and A models in Pietenpols.. Holden alloy V8s in Glider TUG planes.  Nev

Yes, l have towed gliders with the first PA-25 Autotug VH-CTA fitted with a Chevy LS1 350ci.  Goes up very well and comes down like a well trimmed toolbox at idle power.

Robert

[danny_galaga]

So anyway, I was out driving my Lamborghini Miura the other day...