X-Air Standard. Is it surviving the test of time?

[Blueadventures]

8 minutes ago, FlyBoy1960 said:

It was because of all the overweight Bristell aircraft coming through, 50-80 kgs heavier than the factory supplied paperwork.  The swarm of accidents brought this and other issues to the attention of CASA and the industry as a whole had to pay the price.

If so, that is suppling false and misleading information by an individual or individuals; so CASA should seek them out not penalise the compliant authorised persons.  Should have been an easy fix to send an investigator and set of load cells and weigh an aircraft then if its over weight then do a full accurate weighing and go from there.

Edited November 17 by Blueadventures

[FlyBoy1960]

and thats what CASA did.   It's old news now because it was many years ago but it really did cause the complete industry a lot of problems which the RAA are still trying to abate even today.

 

 According to what I am told, people should have gone to jail over these fraudulent activities. It is not ancient history yet you should be able to find everything about this on this website.

[jackc]

19 minutes ago, FlyBoy1960 said:

It was because of all the overweight Bristell aircraft coming through, 50-80 kgs heavier than the factory supplied paperwork.  The swarm of accidents brought this and other issues to the attention of CASA and the industry as a whole had to pay the price.

This all would have been seen IF a W&B was done upon imported aircraft, BEFORE registration was approved by RAAus? 
So, RAAus failed in their own housekeeping? 

[facthunter]

You should check your Plane, Anyhow to be sure. THAT should be encouraged.  Everyone should know how to. Nev

[jackc]

25 minutes ago, FlyBoy1960 said:

and thats what CASA did.   It's old news now because it was many years ago but it really did cause the complete industry a lot of problems which the RAA are still trying to abate even today.

 

 According to what I am told, people should have gone to jail over these fraudulent activities. It is not ancient history yet you should be able to find everything about this on this website.

Look, what is done is done and it’s up to RAAus to use a suitable methodology to solve existing problems, where they  are. 
I have had many phone calls over time detailing me the  sordid past.

Just  3 days ago, I was told of a new instance by a prominent person in Aviation.

The WEB site makes me wanna vomit, it has uppercrust  GA written over most of it.

But that’s the way it is now. 
I would allege the rot really started to set in, with the change from incorporation, based on what I have being told? 

 

 

[jackc]

14 minutes ago, facthunter said:

You should check your Plane, Anyhow to be sure. THAT should be encouraged.  Everyone should know how to. Nev

People should be able to have trust in the organisation of which they are a Member?

Oh hang on, we have been told we are only Stakeholders, according to RAAus? 

[facthunter]

YOUR safety is up to YOU. It's NOT hard to weigh a small plane and work out the balance Point. Nev

[jackc]

1 minute ago, facthunter said:

YOUR safety is up to YOU. It's NOT hard to weigh a small plane and work out the balance Point. Nev

I don’t have calibrated scales? AND right now RAAus don’t even have a plan to get authorised W&B done? 
I suspect my phone calls to them today may not end well…….

[BrendAn]

3 hours ago, facthunter said:

YOUR safety is up to YOU. It's NOT hard to weigh a small plane and work out the balance Point. Nev

Jacks xair would have been done to get the build signed off. 

Raaus should have records.

I have the w&b sheet from when mine was built. If I want to check it I will buy 3 sets of bathroom scales

To sit it on.

[FlyBoy1960]

4 hours ago, jackc said:

This all would have been seen IF a W&B was done upon imported aircraft, BEFORE registration was approved by RAAus? 
So, RAAus failed in their own housekeeping? 

they relied on the information supplied by the manufacturer as I am sure they would for any new aircraft arriving as an LSA accepted aircraft.

 

It wasn't until there were all of the accidents that they started checking documents and aircraft, and found that they were all way heavier than the weight and balance sheet from the factory.

 

Then they discovered the weight and balance was never done properly and they were all very tail heavy. It's all here on this website already.

 

Edited November 18 by FlyBoy1960

[FlyBoy1960]

3 hours ago, jackc said:

I don’t have calibrated scales?

it was in the technical manual, not sure if it is still there now but the weighing equipment needed to have the accuracy of bathroom scales.   this means you could use bathroom scales. Not sure if that requirement has been removed

[FlyBoy1960]

The RA-Aus Technical manual explicitly confirms that bathroom scales are acceptable, provided they can take the weight of the aircraft.

 

Scales deemed suitable by RAAus are:

• Race car scales

• Bathroom scales (if capable of taking the weight of the aircraft)

• Farm scales

• *Other weighing equipment deemed suitable for the task

• A block & tackle suspension with a calibrated load cell

Accuracy requirement

The manual sets a simple check for verifying accuracy:

“Any non-calibrated scales used should first have some basic checks performed to ensure accuracy (e.g., 20 litres of water = 20 kg).”

This confirms:

• Calibrated scales are not mandatory.

• Consumer-grade scales (bathroom scales) ARE acceptable.

• You only need to perform a simple reasonableness check to confirm they read correctly.

Practical requirements

When weighing an aircraft, RAAus also requires:

• Two or more consecutive weighings to get stable readings.

Summary

RAAus does allow bathroom scales, and the manual explicitly lists them as acceptable. The only requirement is that you verify them with a simple accuracy check.

[Blueadventures]

4 hours ago, jackc said:

I don’t have calibrated scales? AND right now RAAus don’t even have a plan to get authorised W&B done? 
I suspect my phone calls to them today may not end well…….

They will be helpful,  What is rego 19 or something else.  Cheers

[BurnieM]

For measuring using any scale you really want to use a scale where your expected weight falls in the mid range of the scales capability for reasonable accuracy. You should also use a check weight in the middle of the range.

 

If we have a bathroom scale with a stated range of 20 - 150 kg then this would not be suitable for LSA measuring if we are expecting a weight between 150 and 250 on each wheel. Even if each wheel had only 150 kg weight then this would be at the scales extreme with a high error.

 

Using a 20 kg check weight would not give a meaningful check for the same reason.

 

And we have not even got into calibration issues 😀

 

Edited November 18 by BurnieM

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, BurnieM said:

For measuring using any scale you really want to use a scale where your expected weight falls in the mid range of the scales capability for reasonable accuracy. You should also use a check weight in the middle of the range.

 

If we have a bathroom scale with a stated range of 20 - 150 kg then this would not be suitable for LSA measuring if we are expecting a weight between 150 and 250 on each wheel. Even if each wheel had only 150 kg weight then this would be at the scales extreme with a high error.

 

Using a 20 kg check weight would not give a meaningful check for the same reason.

 

And we have not even got into calibration issues 😀

 

Would have thought scales would have to go to 300 kg these days. 😁

[jackc]

Well, after a couple of phone calls, where I got very specific about RAAus needing to solve my W&B problem and my 490kg  MTOW  upgrade from 450kg.

I provided factory evidence that was accepted on MTOW.  
Next,  Darren Barnfield phoned me back, after combing RAAus records, he discovered my original W&B document, that no one else could find, it was even done by a man he personally knows. 
So he has OK’ed my W&B as accepted and now my transfer and registration will now be completed.  They are sending copy, to add to logbook for any future reference, IF needed. 
So, my problems are now solved 🤩

So now I can now fly away happy 🤩

[facthunter]

You Only need ONE set of scales if you do it right .You just set the PLANE up LEVEL. Even what the records show could be wrong IF anything's been changed. I know from experience. BOTH were VH  registered.   Nev

 

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, jackc said:

Well, after a couple of phone calls, where I got very specific about RAAus needing to solve my W&B problem and my 490kg  MTOW  upgrade from 450kg.

I provided factory evidence that was accepted on MTOW.  
Next,  Darren Barnfield phoned me back, after combing RAAus records, he discovered my original W&B document, that no one else could find, it was even done by a man he personally knows. 
So he has OK’ed my W&B as accepted and now my transfer and registration will now be completed.  They are sending copy, to add to logbook for any future reference, IF needed. 
So, my problems are now solved 🤩

So now I can now fly away happy 🤩

This is what I have been saying. They have to have the records. 

There are only 3000 aircraft it can't be hard.

[BrendAn]

41 minutes ago, facthunter said:

You Only need ONE set of scales if you do it right .You just set the PLANE up LEVEL. Even what the records show could be wrong IF anything's been changed. I know from experience. BOTH were VH  registered.   Nev

 

If you set it up with a scale under each wheel on level concrete it's easy . Am I missing something or are the people that have told me that's what they do are wrong 

Edited November 18 by BrendAn

[jackc]

8 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

This is what I have been saying. They have to have the records. 

There are only 3000 aircraft it can't be hard.

I asked what their search criteria was for digitised records?  I suggested it all should have been done under aircraft registration number.

RAAus paid a contractor $32,000 or so, for that work to transcribe everything at the time, from paper records. 
I was not told the search criteria used?  Too much information for a Stakehoder to know 🤩🤩

Anyway, my problem was solved, that’s all tht matters 👍

[BrendAn]

25 minutes ago, jackc said:

I asked what their search criteria was for digitised records?  I suggested it all should have been done under aircraft registration number.

RAAus paid a contractor $32,000 or so, for that work to transcribe everything at the time, from paper records. 
I was not told the search criteria used?  Too much information for a Stakehoder to know 🤩🤩

Anyway, my problem was solved, that’s all tht matters 👍

Great news

[facthunter]

IF it can be done with ONE set of scales would that Information NOT be Helpful for some  to know? I did NOT say that 3 wouldn't work.  Nev

[BrendAn]

16 minutes ago, facthunter said:

IF it can be done with ONE set of scales would that Information NOT be Helpful for some  to know? I did NOT say that 3 wouldn't work.  Nev

Of course. I thought there must be a reason you prefer that method ..I have not done it yet. You have.

 

[FlyBoy1960]

Remember all aircraft have an alignment reference. The X-Air needs the main fuse tube to be level and this normally means raising the rear wheels on the scales

[facthunter]

CASA  made it that with W&B, everybody ran out of recency after 2 years and had to be recertified, even the Bloke who would have Known more about it than anyone in CASA doing it all with the SAAA. None of this prevents YOU doing one as a safety check for your OWN satisfaction. IF you find it's way out  THEN take steps to do it officially. That would be to the benefit of any future change of Ownership. ie set the record straight.. A tail heavy situation is the Most dangerous. Nev