Tomo

Thanks Guy.

Oh so right Nev:thumb_up:I believe the safety logic goes something like this....

 

Spot the hazard

 

Assess the risk

 

Make the change if needed.

 

Pud

Hey Tomo, how old are you mate??... Just curious.

But to taxi and take off again knowing you have failed brakes is at the least poor airmanship and at the worst it is just negligence.Using the engine failure analogy, yes, engines fail, but if you had a partial engine failure you wouldn't go flying again without having the engine looked at, would you?

Yes and No Mazda - I totally agree though. But part of Airmanship is about assessing the risks, and making a wise decision - is it not? Yes.

In my case, I did my own assessment and risk analyses. 'Then' called on other experienced persons, pilots. Two of them know me and my flying ability, if they thought it not safe for me to do, they would have flown up the parts so I could repair it (highly experienced pilots and mechanic). The aerodrome I had to go to had two huge runways, grass exit points if need be etc... appropriate. It wasn't an ideal situation to be in, but I wasn't relying on my own basic analyses, I had others - they knew I was capable of operating it like it was. The airfield that I departed from was perfect for it - grass everywhere, helpful ground crew that made sure it all went smoothly. And kept people away.

Ok, so if the same scenario happened to me in say - a busy environment, I had to go to somewhere I didn't know, I didn't have the help needed, I only had myself to confide in, I was on tarmac for start up, there were people everywhere, I didn't have experience in aircraft without brakes etc... The assessment process would have picked this up, and an appropriate decision made from it - which in this case, would be deemed not safe, and or appropriate.

Please, please don't think I'm trying to talk myself out of it - I'm telling you what I did, what I assessed, and why I made the decision to do what I did. Where do you draw the line, yes - a thorough analyses and risk assessment would pick that up. I do risk assessments everyday, it's part of working on huge machinery, and equipment that can kill you with-in seconds. I have made bad assessments before, but the person never to make a mistake never did anything. You learn from it - just like I have this incident, even though it was deemed ok from a dozen sources, half of them knowing how I perform, and what I planned on doing.

The message I'm trying to get across (and for the general public) is. Do your own risk assessment and analyze what you plan on doing. (This is all part of our training as pilots). "Then" ask someone else with lots of experience to do it also for you. That way you aren't looking through 'she'll be right' glasses. But you have to remember that at the end of the day you're are the one responsible for your own safety.

I'm not totally oblivious to all this, I have friends that fly in PNG, every single flight is a complete risk analyses. One friend no longer up there flew for 25 odd yrs back in the day when It was all real 'stick and rudder' stuff, no glass cockpits, no GPS. I have his experience to draw from when I need to as well. He must have done something right to be here now.

Once again I'm not trying to put across that "I'll be right". I'm just trying to say I really do try and be the safe pilot I was trained to be. And I listen to you all with respect. That is why I love this place, that is why I'm fairly avid/enthusiastic in the aviation circles. I have some down right awesome friends. That is why I ask a lot of questions, and try to help others also. What I learn/learnt I try to pass on. Do with it as you wish. That is why I really try and support this site, and tell "real" stories, even at the risk of being ridiculed senseless. It helps those that are shy, or embarrassed about asking various things.

One of reasons I highly support the fact that no question is a stupid question, no matter how often it is asked. I've seen it - I've had students when I was at college actually come an ask me something in private about a subject or whatever because he was scared to be ridiculed in a class room. I try and put this across, because it is a tragic thing these days.

I know I'm only young, but I've been brought up by awesome parents, I've had some experiences some people dream about, I try and get people to realize their dream. Think outside the box, give it a go. I'm fairly often told I have a talent for everything. No not really, I just give it a go. I'm a practical person, so maybe It just looks that way. I've been extremely privileged in a lot of things. I don't deny that one bit, and it was all because of others helping out, giving information, telling stories. I love talking to people because they tell you interesting things.

I've still go a lot to learn yet, and that is why I like to listen, hear about others experiences. And talk to anyone.

Sorry I've gone on a bit, but I've just got to clear this silly little thing up. I understand what you all are saying, I totally agree. That is why I try and ask around before doing things, and gain as much information about it before going there. And learn from it.

Sincerely

Tom

Thanks Baph, and others.

But if you go back to the beginning a bit - I stated I didn't really care what it stalls at, I like aeroplanes that fly - not stall. Regardless of what the "numbers" are the Sierra is mind boggling - I know cause I tried it. I seriously encourage each of you to do to so, instead of sitting here bashing each other around. I'm Not sure what the Cheetah is like though as they are different.

Another thing that you may have all forgotten, it is a '19' registered aircraft at the moment - experimental. Not sure what your dictionary states that to mean, but mine says this: (a new invention or product) based on untested ideas or techniques and not yet established or finalized

Arguing is pretty pointless then isn't it?

Wait till the certification is over, and see what they put down for the numbers then. You can then argue with the certifiers over it.

I do understand about aerodynamics btw - and forgive me if I'm wrong, but aerodynamics has a lot to do with stalling!! Because if it weren't an airfoil of sorts it wouldn't ever 'un-stall' = fly or stop flying = stall. ;) An airfoil or aerodynamics just defines the way of how it goes about doing it efficiently.

Incredible! Looks like paintings in a way.:thumb_up:

Thanks for sharing Spin.

And who was telling the half story?No mate, you can justify it all you like, but there is a common theme of pushing the limits and cutting down your options for when the rest of your luck deserts you

You can argue the fact that it shouldn't happen, this and that etc... but the fact of the matter is - I'd rather be able to handle the situation when it does, than to have an accident because I never knew what to do. Not an excuse to go around doing clearly dangerous things, do it somewhere you can do it safely.

Like a simulated engine failure in an aircraft. You should hear some people go off about doing that! I just hope I'm never their passenger when the day comes and they have never done it. Remember it is always simulated in a safe environment, and if it ever looks unsafe - it's aborted.

If you look at other side of the coin, I'm not trying to promote bad stuff at all - but actually prepare people for various problems.

People thinking they are saving fuel by coasting down the range and end up in an emergency stopping bay dumb founded as to what happened etc... people that go way to fast on gravel roads and end up in the trees... people that don't realize what a heavy trailer does to your performance "Oh it pulls it fine" and takes out the next T intersection dead end sign...

Some don't ever realize the dangers involved, I lot of the time you can sense if it isn't going well, and should steady up one way or the other.

If you ever do a defensive driving course - or a safety driving course you find out these various things - bit like doing EMT training I reckon.

I don't like the idea of giving people a fish, I like it when you give a person a fishing line, and teach him how to use it.

.....only if Locksy would take notice of what his beauty specialist says... he wouldn't go trying to find a bikini for himself. "It isn't you that we are worried about" she says "It's the psychological issues caused to the general public that we are highly concerned about"

"Ah ha!" says Bryon... "back in the day we used too.....

==============

"Remember if you take the theory of flight away... the plane just crashes to the ground" "Why we learned that at College!" said the Nanna.

you will really love the savannah then, stall comes at an indicated airspeed of just 1 kt!

Geez Tomo you're a glutton for punishment lately, I'm afraid that sounds like a daft thing to do. All very well moving from one property to the next out bush, but around the big smoke that's a recipe for getting cleaned up. A good part of city or highway driving is anticipation and the reverse side of the coin is that you are best off not doing anything unexpected either, lest the tradies ute rise up and smite you about the bumper bar!By way of example, I ground to a halt in traffic the other day and very nearly got taken out because said tradie saw all 3 lanes brake then resume rolling (except for me). What he couldn't see was that a ladder had fallen off the ute in front of me and the Holden wasn't likely to clear it. So despite all 3 brake lights blazing, he kept coming at me until the last second before sliding to a halt in a cloud of his tyre smoke, causing much angst further back in the queue. Your locking brake caliper could result in the same scenario, never mind where you need to brake hard and then jump on the gas to avoid something.thumb_down I reckon the 6 P's pretty much covers it.

You could still drive it with the locked caliper... for a bit, just got rather hot, and started smoking... ;) I actually didn't plan the trip that way... I picked up the ute and was on the freeway, when the smoke started to form... so that was the first signs of trouble Funny thing was it didn't have much of a pull on the steering wheel.

Btw, all this was at 9pm one night... and I wasn't driving around the city - obviously that would be stupid!

And if someone run up the back of me... well, that is their small problem. It's called being aware of your surroundings, and don't take it for granted!! I saw a classic example of that once, when this guy powered off at the lights... only the car in front didn't have as such a heavy foot...

Sorry.

Just as a matter of interest, from memory the Puchacz glider has a stall around the 32-39kt mark I think. Hows it do that? It doesn't even have flaps!!

It is possible folks. Just have to think "aerodynamics" ;)

Baph, regarding VNE, it's obtained just like any other aircraft you sit in.

For example suggestions are that disc based brakes dont fade

There is also clutch fade, as one poor trucky discovered when going down the range.... with a double deck , B double combo loaded with cattle. What that was, was hot spots on the pressure plate, and flywheel surfaces. Possibly due to ridding the clutch to much, (backing up etc...) It never let go completely, just slipped/shuddered every now and then, scaring the heck out of the driver each time.

No brakes, don't you just put it in reverse?

The first time I used reverse in the Cresco, I thought, gee this is good.... :thumb_up:

Good story Pud.

Many thrusters I know of haven't/ or don't have working brakes. Many smaller ultralight aircraft I've flown don't have any/or not very good brakes either, and in a tail drager you don't want good ones anyway, but suffice to say, they did have a little bit of friction. Sometimes not quite enough to hold you to do runups though, so you either do it on the roll (always best on gravel anyway) or find a bit of grass, or a rut to put your wheel on.

Another way to do your runups is to put a rock/wood under the wheel... warm up, runups... rev up and taxi over the rock or wood. Job done.

Leaving the tyres slightly spongy would probably help taxiing issues, but you just have to consider the performance loss on take off.

It's up to you whether you consider it safe, like you did last time, so have fun. I always like to encourage people to drive like you don't have brakes - though you do - it's amazing what you can do if you try.

I drove a ute from Brisbane without using the brakes the whole way (only used the hand brake) 300 or more klms. Before you all strangle me, it did have brakes, but every time you used them the front wheel would lock up, and stay locked up, so you had to pull the wheel off, and release the caliper. (not lock up solid, just the caliper pressure stayed applied, so it heated up - was still drivable) (fixed it the next day, just at that time of night I didn't feel like it). But it just requires planning ahead, and trying to sight read what other drivers are going to do! In my case I could use them if I had to. So was quite safe.

Anyway getting off the point ain't I.... Swerving works, looks amusing to sight seers I'm told.... but You do what you have too.

As a matter of interest, I wonder if Instructors should do a "brakeless" lesson, just to show the student what to do. I've had people tell me after my expedition the other day - That they wouldn't have thought about all this stuff. Now that may make pilots fly away like I did without brakes, but at least a lesson on ''brake failure" after landing, would probably be handy for some. Just a thought.

Tomo physics is physics, how can you sit there and attempt to vindicate these very low figures when the wing has no special bits

But I don't really feel I need to argue this any longer, I'm not a salesperson for anyone. I just think it amusing how all those that haven't actually even touched one, or been in one... can sit here arguing. Go and do it! Then you can come back here and say... See I told you so!

Physics is physics exactly.... more flap more drag = STOL aircraft.... who said the Sierra was a STOL aircraft?

Remember there is a difference between STOL and Stall!!

Sorry, It's late and I'm not normally like this... but seriously talk to Garry if you want to argue about it, and if you are more than just an arguer, go for a fly and try it.

Ok, I'm going to bed now

I will be calling on Forumites to set up a Rec Flying meeting point (don't leave it to Ian - he's in Melb with enough to do).

90% of the time, it's in a pretty good spot too!

A very informative - depressing - and helpful lot of information there Sue :thumb_up:

This is the Pelican Sport - My brother took it on his Panny GF1

And the Sierra 100 taken by myself -

Ahahahaha

I feel for you Pud...

Incredible! That certainly is a great video :thumb_up:

Scary!

Piece of string...

I'm not going to say "I told you so..."

What does concern me, is the near religous fervour some people have shown regarding this aircraft. So much so, that university educated individuals are prepared to suspend logic and healthy scepticism and use spurious arguments (you can't possibly know, you haven't flown it) in a headlong rush, to support it.

It appears to be a good aircraft, but the numbers indicate its no better than a lot of other good aircraft.

Look - Talk - Turn

Basically from what I understand, an aircraft is always easier to see when it banks. So if you Look, talk, turn... they will hear you (know where to look) and as you do the turn... see you.

So I always (if applicable) say Turning - Joining - entering before you do it. Just a bit of finesse I guess to make life easier for others.

Also not having a go at anyone in particular, but I hear it a lot. What is the point in saying "Left base"? Or "left crosswind"?

I mean unless stated otherwise all cct operations are left turns anyway. So why say it if that's what you s'posed to do anyway. Doesn't hurt I guess, but It isn't really needed, or is it?

I guess if you're used to operating off an airfield where the cct direction changes all the time it would be second nature in a way.

Thanks a lot guys. Certainly very helpful to hear other opinions.

Yes, Evans Head, and Airlie Beach, there is also Gatton Airpark etc... but the prices are stupendous! Temora is at this stage half reasonable. And I guess coming from a rural background the place takes my fancy a little.

We'll see what happens.