turboplanner

YKWR?????

This case is worth following over the next few years, for those involved in fly ins, Natfly etc - gatherings where you have to set up the venue and invite spectators.

The number of claimants is quie big, but we have much the same prinicples - duty of care for safe access and exit, and safe conduct of the event

Dozens of 'terrified' Falls Festival crowd stampede victims launch class action

People getting all uptight about encroaching development at airports here in Australia really need to get out and see more of the world's city and municipal airports!There are not many places near cities I know of that failure to climb away on one engine is going to allow the plane to be crashed onto a nice grassy field.

Try looking up a few on google earth......

Also, this comparison only applies to Strategic Planning....where we dream that this would be a good place for an Airport.

Once we make that decision, the situation morphs into Strategic Planning, which covers the whole of our Country, and determines what should be there (which can knock out an airport, prison, waste dump), what it should be next to and what should be next to it, and finally the conditions which should be applied to the use to ensure it doesn't affect the amenity of existing uses.

That's quite a formal process, not understood by about 98% of the population.

What we have mostly been talking about is at this tail end, where in most cases people have been breaching planning regulations and getting away with it.

WonderingIf flying coastal past Sydney, you have to be a long way out to sea!, why is it illegal to turn towards the beach before ditching into the sea, close enough to be saved.

spacesailor

Call a Mayday and put down on the beach if that's your survival plan.

Three airports not enough for Melbourne , one is not paying the owners enough profit now, (he's a millionaire already), So how would four airports survive economically.spacesailor

everywhere except for a few movinf walkways, to half kilometre walks at times.

So the current dual use airport is bulging at the seams.

On top of that we have an additional million or so setting up house in Melbourne by about 2030, so the financial model is about right.

That's one of the biggest ephemeral swamps in Australia. 1934 level is marked in the main street at shoulder height.

Wonder what the total area multiplied by about six metres of fill would cost.

Latest court appearance. Ridiculous how this can drag on for so long.Ultralight crash survivor cries poor after four-year legal 'saga'

Just had a look at the CASA site for this.Questions and comments on Cessna SIDs | Civil Aviation Safety Authority

Up to $20,000 for the inspection.....DAMN that is steep.!

Yes it can be, but there's been a reluctance within the GA community to pay around $370,000.00 for a new Cessna 172, even though, in terms of weekly income, the cost is not a lot different to 1960.

SIDS allows people to continue flying, in some cases 60 year old airframes with 8,000 hours plus stress on them with the weak points removed and a similar level of airframe safety to a current era airframe.

Without SIDS, some people would just fly the old airframes until something let go.

And that in a nutshell is the problem with private & recreational aviation in Australia.

It's a complicated subject and one that definitely needs talking about. I agree wholeheartedly with your experience PMc and that has also been my experience.But we have to remember depression isn't the same from person to person nor is it always at the same strength, we have to really understand the difference between a simple (as if there is such a thing) deep depression and a suicidal deep depression. Flying can certainly help one but could be disastrous with the other.

 

It is a shame that suicide has such a stigma, so much so that incidents of it are suppressed and not spoken about which is the exact opposite that needs to happen if we are to learn anything from them.

Good ways to work reactive depression out of your system are to get physically moving, building walks into the day's routine and to do something different to the ordinary routine which gets your mind off the problem.

I saw P McCarty's post as doing just that.

Unfortunately SSRIs are seen by many GPs as the solution for all forms of depression, which they are not.

I found a serious flaw with the way the ATSB investigates ! When some who is connected in some way to an accident they have to sign a privacy form that they can not discuss the details with anybody ! This then silences the critics of their investigation ! I found this to be against all of our rights ! The way ATSB operates is not in everyone's interest, when no one who knows the facts can say anything !The police have been trained to investigate aviation accidents and I don't know if they make you sign anything other than a statement.

An ATSB report is not like a post on RF where anyone can cat call, put their own theories, or claim that [insert CASA, ATSB or any other nemesis] are a the sons of secret Nazis who will bend the truth to get us.

I like so many others, are sick of hearing that the findings of many of these incidents are never published. Surely to God something can be done if enough are behind it. Publication of the findings if you own a XYZ, or whatever aircraft would make you check over your own with a fine tooth comb, so you don't become the next statistic making the headlines.If they can do it overseas which should contribute to safer sky's, and all concerned, why not here?

There's always plenty of excuses, but they are not helpful to the cause.

 

How can we all get together to fulfill this aim?

 

If we don't try, that's all you ever achieve, Jack Sh*t, and no-one is any better off.

 

Maybe we need a forum specifically for this purpose, and a spokesperson such as Dick Smith to do some lobbying on our behalf?

 

What do you think we can do to constructively achieve this, or do we just sit back and accept the way things currently are?

In fact, the quickest way to fix is is to absorb RA into GA, otherwise you need to be very good at legal drafting of a complex situation.

We have this discussion almost every time there is a fatality.These laws / rules are man made and as such can be changed.

Why is RAAus not lobbying to get this changed for the safety of all? Certainly this should be of higher priority than focusing on increased weight limits or CTA?

 

.

I've mentioned the impediments to changing the law a few time, but if you want to get it first hand, go down to your local Police Station and talk to the Sergeant about the process of accident investigation, preparation for the brief for the Coroner, and why the Police can't release the details of their brief, which may include input from RAA investigators.

Personally, I think the best long term outcome for ATSB to investigate all fatals including RAA; that may require different levels of investigation to control costs.

For example, in the case of an obvious cause of crash/blatant breach of regulation, no investigation, with steps up to the current full level investigation.

The numbers of deaths certainly warrant a higher focus on prevention.

Why are the results of any official enquiry, & their conclusions, not published down the track?They are in UK & USA, where no doubt they are felt to be of benefit to the flying community.

Has anyone tried accessing these reports under FOI? I can understand the respect for the family of the deceased, but after 6 months or so any findings are unlikely to make national news, so would not impact on the loved ones. But they certainly (in my view) should be released into the aviation community, or available online for the asking.

 

It is, after all, an enquiry to establish the cause of the accident. And who would benefit most from knowing that, if not fellow aviators?

 

Bruce

As we've seen above, there is also pressure to cover up these things.

And the experts start speculating again, amazing how armchairs give expertise without even seeing the evidence. What is the point of having an enquiry when you guys have it all sussed. Remember someone is dead, your opinions matter not at all because you dont know untill the evidence is in.

Unless ATSB step in there will be no report.

a hard hit for a small aircraft.

I think you'll find that most journos these days just copy and paste unless its the Murdoch media and they tend to have a political narrative they need to carry and pick and chose their facts to suit.

The story goes to the Editor, who, contrary to popular belief here, will go off like a packet of crackers if he/she thinks the journalist has made anything up, so the journalist usually obtains the source of the witness, just doesn't print it.

From there it may go to legal, ands have all the guts taken out of it.

Then if its on deadline it may turn out to be something like a piece of swiss cheese.

These people work in minutes rather than hours.

Avalon showed how dysfunctional #casa were with the #casa castle.

I question why Bureaucracy and the Legal Systems both require so much time.I wonder if they are not just feathering their own nests and ensuring they have an income for the next x number of years.

Yes people have to be interviewed leads need to be chased and systems need to be checked and verified but it seems to me the the sluggishness of official channels is a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

It seems that the time taken to do a job can be extended long enough with a little bit of effort to put several kids through University.

 

I once tried to book a truck in to get a machinery, (annual inspection) current inspection expired 23 Dec. I rang on the 1st of November only to be told that no inspections were available until late January.

 

When I asked for an extension I was promptly told that I should not have left it to the last minute to book.

 

The public sector have long since forgotten that they are Public Servants not Public Hindrances.

 

If someone rang me to do a job and I told them to come back in 3 months I would get laughed into bankruptcy.

It took so long I my boots go waterlogged and I had to go out an buy new ones. Had to book into a Motel overnight and they finished the last one the following afternoon.

Brand new trucks, just off the line, clearly with air brakes and spring brake working, but they tested all the air circuits with gauges (which they had to tap in), couldn't find a fault, and cheerfully sent me on my way with teeth ground down to the bone.

in Victoria you get a private contractor to do it, but that costs you money.

Cmon turbo, investigations still underway from 2015.......Looks like all the effort/budget has gone "glory seeking" with MH370 to me.

We seem to be more concerned than the chinese or malaysians in MH370, who have just pretty much written it off.....

Apart from that, when you think of what they have to look at, and know that often some arsehole has killed his family through a blatant misuse of the aircraft, and a history of rule flouting years long, they could do with a little slack.

There's also the level of budget they are allocated vs the level of budget required to help speed up the process.

Having said that, it would be interesting to know what the average investigation to report time is these days compared to Macartur Job's era. That might tell the story.

Very easy for people to say; very difficult to reach a bullet proof conclusion if you are the investigator.

Sometimes on thuis forum, we have the answers within 20 minutes or so, or we think we do. Often when the final report comes out, we were right, often we were wrong, but the standard we expect from ATSB is a thorough investigation, drawing together all the evidence, and reaching a conculsion beyond doubt.

That involves getting detailed evidence and analysis from third parties, and it all takes time.

Sure the loved ones are looking for answers; but do they really want fudged replies?

is an RAA registered 172 or 208 going to need to be SIDS compliant? that could be a game changer for the RAA

It looks like anyone who communicates details of a crash is up for criticism.

The journalist correctly described the 19 registered aircraft as self built; the self made comment came from here; both are correct, but some people seem uneasy at that coming out in the open.

I'm still trying to work out how I can invite pilots to a 'Drifter Weekend' at my new 'strip at Woolooman S E Qld - it's only 200 metres and surrounded by hills - so it's for STOL aircraft only (and probably light as well, perhaps even pilot only and half fuel) so it may just be all too hardTried to arrange public liability insurance just for a weekend and was told it was not 'financially feasible' for insurance companies - but they would 'consider' a 365 day policy...

 

Remember the good old days when you could expect people to take responsibility for their own actions? Those days are long gone...

 

Apparently waiver forms are not worth the paper they are written on either - thought about telling pilots there would be a huge firepit and half a cow on a spit and free beer on a certain date and that there is an airstrip but you can't land on it but if you do I will be very angry - and I will throw things at you like cans of beer and cow burgers to indicate my wrath - but that's not going to stand up in a court of law, is it?

 

Any ideas?

I would make a few more inquiries about one-day insurance. There are many "annual events", including Rodeos, Motorcross events, Rallies, race meetings (horse/car etc)

I'm not sure what speedways do these days, but they used to take out event days only PL Insurance,