turboplanner

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

  99% of the talking should  be on the ground.  You should be prepared from the book and pre briefed thoroughly before flight. If that's not happening go elsewhere.  Nev

What was being talked about had nothing to do with briefing; it was student in the aircraft, instructor on the ground. Not a good look.

1 minute ago, facthunter said:

That'd go down  well. Atc do it in emergencies. but I've never seen or heard reference to it and I didn't come down in yesterdays shower.  If the student doesn't know how to fly why would he/she be solo at all?   Nev

very good question.

2 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

47 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Instructing from the ground is a term I've never heard. I think it's referring to instructor authorised  solo for specific students.  Nev

The comments refer to the Instructor sitting in a deck chair on the ground with a radio and telling the student how to fly.

44 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Instructing from the ground is a term I've never heard. I think it's referring to instructor authorised  solo for specific students.  Nev

1 hour ago, Captain said:

......... given up on having a "good time" since bull had moved to Tazzy.

 

They were so sad that they all sat in the sun looking at their maps of Tasmania, to try to see where he had ......

.....gone.

Some thought it was Devonport,  but others thought it would be Mole Creek where there were lenty of Moles, but ........................................................

18 minutes ago, facthunter said:

What is Instructing from the ground?  Nev

Someone was talking about it in the last few days.

.......sh.....sh.......sh.....sh......[MOD2] train wheel. We just found out that Rob was squashed by the Jamaica Plain Special this morning. So we will neven know the RoB's innner feelings, although he left a trail of .............

After these marvellous insights into the legal system I don't see why CASA can't make the decision today, and just say, You're going up going up to us but you'll be using a LAME to maintain that aircraft, you'll all be on Basic Class 2 medical, and you guys can just keep going with the car medical, but there's to be no instructing from the ground.

..........it authority ticket collector who moonlighted at the Rat of Boston, a well -known mass murderer of the 1930s who drove a Cadillac de Salle and flew his own Staggerwing Beechcraft until .................

 and Turbo had secretly conveyed to Cappy that QWERTY was in the area. (* is short for XXXX).

QWERTY was a Bi and very difficult to deal with. We should explain; a Bi in the aviation industry is someone who flies both GA and RA aircraft, and Cappy's first experience with QWERTY was in the Members Dining Room or the Royal Victorian Aero Club. Someone made a questionable remark about QWERTY being a Bi  and wouldn't own up to it when QWERTY spun around with his knuckle duster on.

They pointed to Cappy and when, three hours later Cappy strolled out he found that QWERTY had taxyed his 182 past the Bently, the prop taking slices as it went.

Cappy .................

...  .. .                                              *

.......Australia.

He idly types “QWERTY” into the keyboard. Somewhere in Bakersfield, California the signal was picked up, sent to Sydney, across to Perth, up to Singapore and deep into the forests of Northern Tasmania reaching QWERTY, a well known former member once photographed pushing a bedraggled Thruster to the shore of a wild Tasmanian river. The result was.....

6 minutes ago, jackc said:

I have ask WHY 500 pages of stuff to do a reasonable simply task in what should be an easily understandable document for lay people, since they are the ones who need to abide by it all.

People wonder WHY I am rules adverse, well now you know 🙂

 

I read it. It's in plain English. Pretty much in the English you have tyoed above. I didn't get to read the Austlii Legislation; didn't need to.

11 hours ago, Flying_higher said:

I think you’re being a bit dramatic. All it means if you can’t get and unrestricted commercial Ausroads is that you have to then see a DAME, who yes, may be able to manage your condition. 

It would be good if people would take the time to read the 500 pages or so of CASA and Austroads documents to see why CASA would take so long to make a change, and what that change might mean for them.

.........go there every day to meditate and when I look out at the crooked shoreline of Bass Strait, I .......................

.......Big Oil Spill."

When the People read Gill's comments in the Daily Rup, they blocked the talk-back radio stations around Australia expressing their joy at this new form of identification for what used to be known as Australian Rules Football before Australia's name was changed to ..........................

14 minutes ago, jackc said:

IF it came to the crunch (I don't think  it will, for me I hope) a DAME grounded me?

I would still fly IF I wanted. I have been studying Internal Medicine for over 8 years!

I have been a paid subscriber of medical journals in that time as well.

Having seen some disastrous medical findings in my life has been enough for me.

I have seen a Doctor fired from a medical practice as a result of my complaint.

 

I can understand all of that; medical professionals are no more immune from mistakes than the rest of us but you're looking at the DAME back to front. The Unlimited Commercial Vehicle equivalent, the Basic Class 2 is for people who know they are healthy and its cheaper because a less authorised Doctor makes the decision, but if he/she finds you have a condition, you're out, whereas the DAME is allowed to manage your condition. It's well worth looking at the Austroads pathways back to work for truck drivers who've blacked out once, or several times, or have high blood pressure. This is where it's better to go for a full Class 2. 

Just now, jackc said:

Modern day attitudes seem to be that the ‘whole’ recipe does not get published until the end.

Keep people in the dark so they cannot make forward plans.

We will start construction……but we don't have all the plans…….

Better shut mouth before I put my foot in it 🙂

The reason I did the research was to show how complicated chopping up the industry is particularly the health part, where if you have an ongoing condition you are batter off with a DAME managing it than giving up flying. This one was one of those "Be careful what you ask for" requests.

9 minutes ago, jackc said:

Some have been repowered?  How are they affected?

 

Best to wait and see what's decided.

Cessna C150, the fifth most produced aircraft ever - 726 kg MTOW 

USD prices approx $30,000 < $60,000, C150 Aerobat $59,900.00

Cessna C152, 757 kg MTOW.

5 hours ago, Captain said:

...... punched the air.

 

"Elon Musk and SpaceX/Starlink are great, but we haff just proven that we haff the potential to undertake commercial space launches direct from the middle east .......... even iff it is 1 customer at a time".

 

Gill was impressed and wrote on his drink coaster "Develop a 'Welcome to Country' and a "Smoking Building Ceremony" for Iraq", send Buddy and Garry over to support the Redbacks and the CrockJumpers respectively (give 'em $20 million each), and contact ......

...... the Press and say nothing will change in the League, and then learn how to stick the knees and elbows out in the Welcome to Country dance while inhaling burning camel dung and date palm leaves, and ......................

14 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

No one is proposing to take away any rights from existing flyers. The rules allowing Drifters and Thrusters are still there, if that is your thing.

Did anyone say they were?

.......the occasional IED was let off for fun.

Gill could only nod in agreement, as the 16 spectators struggled to understand the rules of the game.

Bomb Chucker OneEye chucked one just in front of the goal posts and a Sons Full Back was launched into space. The ball dribbled through for a goal.

bombchucker camel arced his arm right back and ........................

CASA Time delay in getting an answer

From 30/8/2019 to 28/9/19 CASA sought feedback from the industry ….to permit 3-axis aeroplanes up to a maximum weight of 760 kg to be included as aircraft that could be administered by an ASAO [Approved Self-Administering Aviation Organisation].

The consultations closed with 408 responses received (out of the roughly 15,000 people affected in GA and RA)

Seven issues were looked at:

1.     MTOW

2.     Stall speed

3.     Maintenance requirements

4.     Medical standards

5.     Flight standards

6.     Safety implications

7.     Cost implications.

On December 6, 2019, three months after the CASA Consultation period had closed, a spirited thread was started by Walrus and debated by a lot of people and finally ended by Walrus with the poetic “I love the base leg at Milford Sound and the final turn by the Cliffs.”

We didn’t get to know how many, if any, submissions from RAA members were received.

DISCLAIMER

This started as a response to the current criticism that CASA is taking too long to make a decision on the 760 kg MTOW request, but as I looked into it there are good reasons to want CASA to look very carefully, and a chance of it disadvantaging people in both GA and RA flying. As much as there’s a lot written, it only covers the tip of the iceberg and some of the 7 points, so if you are likely to be affected, I recommend you do your own research of the full CASA, RAA, Austroads etc documents because it looks very complicated to me.

1,2: Increase in MTOW

There were two key safety factors which allowed the original home built AUF aircraft to fly; low stall speed and light weight.

With the smaller, two stroke engines it was expected that many of the flights would be downhill into whatever was below, which was intended to be grass or low shrubs.

The low stall speed allowed a lower impact collision with terrain and the lighter weight ensured a lower inertia driving the aircraft and pilot into the ground.

Here the proposal was to reverse some of that by increasing the MTOW by 27%

Doesn’t sound a lot, but the rules that allowed the Recreational Aviation exemptions to fly under the RAA system today were based on 450 Kg MTOW and the increase from there is 69% which opens up a pandora’s box.

The Low Inertia rule which many on this site have interpreted as bullet proof aircraft also has to be recalculated for 760 kg MTOW.

My rough calculation of inertia at 450 kg MTOW is 648 kg-m² increasing to 1094 kg-m² for 760 kg MTOW. That would introduce considerations on FRP laminate thickness, gusset size and thickness, mounting points and many other items, producing a heavier aircraft, so some of the gain can be lost. Bigger engines are also heavier so more gain is lost. The question becomes  “What is the nett gain in payload?”

Maintenance

Very important to the cost of RA operations is the freedom for anyone to maintain their own aircraft, saving around $100.00 to $160 per hour in labour cost.

This freedom takes into account mistakes that some might make which would result in a forced landing, and that’s where the stall speed and weight rules play their part, and the guy who didn’t tighten the spark plug, or didn’t put the engine back together correctly only gets a minor injury rather than something more serious.

Self-Maintenance comes under scrutiny with that sort of increase in weight.

That is compounded by the CASA requirement in place for aircraft in the 760 kg MTOW like Cessna 150/152 to only be maintained by a LAME.

There is a public liability exposure if an organisation has a safe benchmark in place, and then opts to do something less safe. CASA may resume some unwanted liability and that’s expensive.

Add to that the fuel of the GA 760 kg aircraft coming over to RA and telling LAMES they’ll be maintaining their own aircraft from now on. CASA maintenance critical mass for LAME cost coverage would be threatened, reducing safety again.

4: MEDICALS, Source: CASA.gov.au

Class 1 Medical certificate

·       Air Transport Pilot Licence

·       Commercial Pilot Licence (other than Balloons)

·       Multi-Crew Pilot Licence

·       Flight Engineer Licence

Class 2 Medical Certificate

·       Since 2018 CPL can do some operations with a Class 2 Medical

Basic Class 2 Medical Certificate

Same standard as an Unconditional Commercial Driver standard and allows for vision correction and hearing aids. (Refer Austroads).

·       Only private day operations under VFR below 10,000’

·       Max 5 passengers

·       Only piston engine aircraft

·       MTOW less than 8618 kg

·       No use of Operator Ratings such as instructor rating, instrument rating

·       No use of aerobatics or low level (except if valid Class 1 or 2 in a flight seat)

·       Does not allow for the management of medical conditions a DAME or CASA can consider when issuing a normal Class 2 Certificate.

AUSTROADS

What is an Unconditional Commercial Driver standard?    (Commercial = Truck)

An Unconditional licence holder is a person who has fully developed and practised their driving skills (usually over a two to three year period) and is considered competent to drive with the minimum allowable restrictions and to supervise learner drivers. In 1997 Australia implemented the National Driver Licensing Scheme (NDLS).

What is Austroads?     Austroads is a section of the National Transport Commission (NTC), a Commonwealth Government entity.

Assessing Fitness to Drive; Austroads – 2022 Edition, Austroads.

This is the link to the 264 page Medical standards for licensing and clinical management guidelines

https://austroads.com.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0037/498691/AP-G56-22_Assessing_Fitness_Drive.pdf

Here are a few items:

Fitness to Drive Assessment P66

Blackout definition and pathways P68 – example Private (car) licence, should not drive for six months; Commercial should not drive for five years.

Cardiovascular P62

High blood pressure P77

Basic Class 2 Requirements

You can get a Basic Class 2 examination from any medical practitioner who does medicals for commercial motor vehicle drivers.

Basic Class 2 Equivalent

It is the same as an unconditional commercial driver standard and allows for vision correction and for hearing aids.

Basic Class 2 Disqualifying conditions

·       Don’t meet unconditional commercial driver licence medical standard for your Basic Class 2 Medical.

·       Have a pre-existing condition

You can still apply for a Class 2 Medical certificate with a full assessment from a DAME who has more flexibility.

RAMPC

Cheaper and application process easier than Class 1 and Class 2

Medical standard is less flexible

Does not allow for management of medical conditions

RAMPC Restrictions

Only single engine piston aircraft (fixed wing or helicopter)

MTOW 1500 kg or less

Day operation, VFR , below 10,000 feet

No more than one passenger

No acrobatic flight

Unless a pilot in a flight control seat has suitable qualifications valid for Class 1, Class 2 Medical.

RAMPC Disqualifying Conditions

Don’t meet the unconditional commercial drivers licence medical standard

Have certain medical conditions (but can apply for a Class 2)

PPL

RPL

Solo at night if receiving training and under the supervision of flying school and Flight Instructor

Recreational Aviation Medical Practitioners Certificate (RAMPC)

RPL

·       Carry 1 passenger if you hold a Recreational Aviation Australia Pilot Certificate

·       Carry more than one passenger if you hold an RPL and either:

o   Hold a Class 1 or Class 2 Medical Certificate (or fly with another pilot who holds a Class 1 or 2 Medical Certificate and occupies a  flight control seat in the aircraft and is authorised to fly that aircraft.

RPL Pre-Requisites

·       Single engine only

·       At least 16 years old

·       Able to speak and understand a certain level of English

·       Class 1 or Class 2 Medical Certificate or:

o   Recreational Aviation Medical Practitioner Certificate (RAMPC)

For the RPL Iicence to be active:

·       Do a Flight Review

·       3 takeoffs and landings in the previous 90 days if you wish to carry a passenger

·       Have a Class 1 or Class 2 medical certificate to fly above 10,000’ (or have another authorised pilot, in a flight control seat, who has one.

An RA-AUS Pilot Certificate is equivalent to an RPL

Recreational Aviation Australia Ltd

“self-certification of their health and fitness (if no nominated medical conditions are evident*).”

“In general terms if a RAAus member is fit to drive a private motor vehicle, they are at a fitness level suitable to fly a RAAus aircraft. However, this medical freedom includes a responsibility to self-assess and be responsible for ensuring their own fitness to fly every time they intend to fly.”

This is the link to Recreational Aviation Advisory Publication RAAP 9

https://www.raa.asn.au/storage/raap-9-medical-guidance-for-raaus-members.pdf

Compare the Unconditional Commercial Driver Licence standard with the RA Self-declared Car Licence and see where you would rather be for your medical situation.

Summary

You can’t come down from an Industry Standard, Australian Standard, International Standard, Safety Standard without incurring Liability.

You can reduce your liability by going up in standards, reducing incidents.

You can’t operate at a lower standards in one section of an organisation than another without increasing liability and discriminating.

You can’t disadvantage ones group of people by hiving them tougher standards and higher costs than another group doing the same job with the same equipment as another group.

You can’t have one maintenance standard and cost in one group and a higher standard and group in another when they are doing the same job.

You can’t fracture Medical standards to create a level with lower standards for doing the same job.

Something has to crack.

Self servicing and car medical standards becomes very attractive for older people running out of money with developing medical conditions but it introduces more risk to the lower level group and pulls membership out of the higher group, destabilising schools and LAME income.

It can add more liability so more cost to RA operations. That could be offset by a suitably higher subscription for ex GA and other 760 kg aircraft, but that in turn could make them non-viable.

It would cause even less attention being given to the backbone of RA, affordable flying in rag and tube and 80 hp class aircraft.

And so on.

Hopefully you will have read all the clauses from the Unconditional Commercial Medical and realised that it’s as complicated as the CASA system, without the ability to manage your condition; get the condition; you’re retired.

Same for the BASIC Class 2; that’s for People with no medical issue. Class 2 is actually better because if you do have a condition, the DAME is authorised to manage it and keep you flying longer.

If I was doing a full analysis it would be another ten pages at least to cover all aspects, but I thought I would pull some data to show that you are better off with a long period of investigation and cross-checking in cases like this.

It would be easy to put all the over 80 hp aircraft into GA, and leave the grass roots as it was in RA.

It would be easy to transfer all sub 760 MTOW into RA, introduce Class 2 Medical for the lot

And so on, but that type of decision making can wipe out half the industry.

Better to take it easy and let the decision makers make their decision.

This discussion isn’t going to change anything. Clever ideas like adopting other Countries’ ideas had to be submitted by September 2019.

........his lunch of cold goat, which he kept in the wing profile. Western flyers had not yet begun to use this practical aid to long flights.

He called his unique aircraft a Mosul Mack because ................