Phil Perry

This reads that you try to spin it turning finals or do I need to take more meds? I flew in an Xair Hanuman with a Jabiru engine, most impressed.

No,. . . ( ! ) I don't like the idea of trying to deliberately spin ANYTHING on final ! ! ! ! sorry if it read like that. The test pilot tried his best to spin it during the original test flight programme after we'd built it. I am referring to the Marque 1 X'Air by the way, not the later variants, I've got no flight experience in the later types.

 

Phil

 

 

Hi Guys & Gals. . . I, with a couple of friends. . . built an X'Air nine years ago, with the bluetop 582 engine, and this was bought from a widow whose husband had half built it. . . then died from pancreatic cancer without ever seeing his project completed. . . . we bought it as a club venture to help her out with funeral expenses, and that aircraft is still flying to this day. . . .it has had over 45 syndicate owners, who buy a share and fly it for a year or so, then go on to buy something else. . . .It isn't fast, it isn't sexy, BUT THE DAMN THING FLIES VERY WELL and is a nice, safe, delight to drive ! ! !

 

You'd have to REALLY TRY to hurt yourself flying an X'Air, as it just completely refuses to spin, no matter what you do to it on the final turn. . . After having flown several million odd hours flying all sorts of commercial aeronautical appliances, I have to be honest, I've never flown anything so benign or as user friendly as an X'Air. I call it the "NON-PILOT'S IDEAL AEROPLANE" You could train a deranged monkey to fly it safely,. . . not a brilliant advertisement, but I think you know what I'm getting at. It really IS one of the best primary training aeroplanes I have ever seen. . . almost impossible to hurt yourself, even if the instructor is half asleep. . . . and ideal to train pilots who, normally shouldn't be allowed into an airfield.

 

We tried our best to spin it during the test flights after build, but it just refused. This could possibly be described as a bad thing, as other aircraft designs will bite severely if abused in the manner that you can get away with easily in this type. . . nevertheless, it is a lovely, easy to fly plane, and it has trained many good pilots over the years that it has been available.

 

Phil

 

 

Don't encourage them, might win the world cup again!!!!!! (Rugby that is, not the pending soccer thing)

Paul,. . . .

 

The "Pending Soccer Thing" is,. . .I believe, going to be held in BRAZIL,. . . . if they have not altready descended into total anarchy by that time. . . . . Latest news about Brazil says that they are rioting in over 100 cities, ( I didn't know they had that many ? ? ? ? ? ? )

 

Phil

 

 

The TSR-2. . . . . . was a wonderful machine, British designed and built, MUCH faster than the English Electric Lightning,. . . then the FASTEST jet fighter in the world, even using just ONE engine. . . it was able to leave a lightning even when it was using reheat,. . . behind in very short order. . . but it became a victim of stupid, craven and cowardly British politicians, and was scrapped, VERY RAPIDLY. . . along with all the design drawings and tooling, at he insistance of the American government BECAUSE,. . . It's basic Specifications made the offerings from the yanks look a little bit stupid. So we ( the UK armed forces ) were forced to purchase their F111 design. A far slower and less useful machine.

 

There are only a couple of shells of these aircraft left to tell the tale,. . . One of which is in my local museum, at RAF Cosford, in the West MIdlands,. . . and just looking at it makes me drool, and want to kill several politicians for their abject bloody pathetic and uneducated stupidity.

 

OK, OK, it was not in the same category as the Blackbird, which came along many years later. . . but as far as I and many other people are concerned, the Yanks have a lot of explaining to do, before I will ever understand why THEY didn't buy the TSR2 from the Brits, which was a much better, much faster aircraft when this was precisely what was required at that point in time, I believe that in doing so that they basically stalled the development of fast jet military aircraft for a number of years due to this irrational and incredibly stupid piece of political mismanagement.

 

Mr. Angry

 

 

Good point, Andy. I believe some American states grant a license to drive on the roads at 15, but won't allow drinking until 21. May be the right way around. We give both rights at about the same time. Dumb, especially when it's well known that the male brain is not fully formed and functional until about age 25. (Mine is a work in progress)

 

When Ahhh Waz in Alabama layast. . . . . They told me that you could drive an Artomobeeele at the age of FOURTEEN. . . . ! There are two ways of looking at this, 1) If you start driving cars at 14, then by the time you get to 21, ( If you live that long. . .) then you have SEVEN YEARS experience driving cars WHEREAS. . . 2) . . .If you don't drive 'til age 17 or 18. . . . well,. . .no further comment needed.

 

My brain was ( with the obvious evidence of hindsight . . . . ) not fully formed until I reached the dizzy age of 32.

 

Evidenced by many memories of saying things like, "Nah,. . .jump on board,. . . I'll fly you there for nothing,. . .I'm going near there anyway. . . ." and paying $40,000 for a block of coastal land in Queensland which didn't belong to the organisation who were selling it. . . . ( ! ) [ amongst other things. . . ]

 

The Wife said that this was poetic justice,. . . as some of that money had been earned doing dodgy flying jobs,. . .( no details available, I've forgotten now. . .! )

 

Ce la vie. . . . .

 

( Sorry if I've spelled that French bit incorrectly Clive, but I think it means something like, . . . That's life Bruce. . . )

 

Wistful Phil.

 

 

I've actually been married THREE times,. . .the first Wife died from Mushroom poisoning,. . . the second Wife also died from mushroom poisoning. . . the THIRD Wife,. . .fell down the stairs. . . ( She just refused to eat the bloody mushrooms ! )

 

 

Oh, I know I require therapy!! I never understood that old joke "Insanity is hereditary - you get it from your kids"... until I had some. Kids that is, not therapy.

My Grandfather had a split personality, ( I can't remember the Psycho - whatever it is name for that. . .) but I was 7, and he was Mussolini. . .

 

Phil ( I think. . .)

 

 

Random Breath Testing, exercised by police on any motorist at any time without need to show reason.

Thank you David,

 

I thought that it might be something to do with our system relating to commercial road transport drivers wghere there are rigidly enforced regs with regard to how long a driver may drive before a rest stop, all recorded on a personal digital tachograph card which has to be uploaded and checked at each end of the trip.

 

British Police have ( sort of ) had the ability to stop and Breath Test any driver for alcohol consumption for many years, even though some of the reasons for stopping someone were quite often superfluous, BUT it had the desired effect to a large extent. But as has been mentioned before in this thread ( and sorry for the slight drift ) that driver error bought on by tiredness was a major factor in a very large number of Road Transport Accidents. We do still get those but in the main, they seem to be caused by foreign truck drivers who try to push their luck.

 

Phil

 

 

Considering the wildlife in your country one is likely to be eaten or stomped on after a successful forced landing. Do you supply a handgun with each aircraft sale? What about fast running shoes?

Have you ever tried hitting anything with a HANDGUN ? it's darned difficult, unless you are a professional shooting instructor, . . . I wasn't far off, but I have to tell you that if I was trying to survive in the Australian bush by shooting wildlife and cooking it, . . . I'd much prefer a 5.56 mm high velocity rifle with at least 180 grain soft hollowpoint bullets and a big scope . . . or even an old 3030 Winchester with softnoses. . .just to give me half a chance. . . . And forget wild pigs,. . .you shoot the damn things twice and they just get up and keep on coming at you. . .! Nasty burgers, . . .it'd be like getting hit by a 1000 Kg motorbike with big teeth. . . . Dump the gun and get up a bloody tree mate.

 

( Mind you if you DO manage to kill one,. . . they're GREAT eating. . . . IF you can find a swagman, a passing Aborigine, or someone else kind enough to turn the spitroast over the fire for a few hours . . . . . )

 

Phil

 

 

When did Mildura move to NSW, last I knew, it was still in Victoria...

I think you're right IG,. . .

 

I could have sworn it was in Vic when I landed downwind there in a C-210 in 1974. . . . . . didn't really matter, as the runways are quite accomodating in dimensions. . . and all you have to say to non flying passengers as you decellerate thru 100 knots is something like . . . " Geez, this hot tarmac doesn't half make yer tyres squeal a bit dunnit ? ? ? "

 

Phil

 

 

Yeah, but it would - to me - raise questions:BNE - Adelaide.

 

Mildura is EN-ROUTE!

 

If they were low of fuel there.......

 

Ok, maybe they had to turn back.

 

All the same: Aren't comercial flights supposed to have enough fuel for viable diversion?

I think you need to as a man called Michael O'Leary about that one Phil,. . . .he owns an airline called RYANAIR and regularly insists on his flights only uploading the MINIMUM QUANTITY of fuel for the particular flight, to keep his costs down. This has already caused a few incidents where aircraft have been diverted and had ONLY JUST enough juice to get back onto the deck safely. This is also the ***hole who has suggested that modern airliners only really need ONE PILOT. . . using cabin staff to assist in any type of emergency. . . and has put forward an idea where passengers actually STAND UP in harnesses similar to those you see on fairground rides, so that he can squeeze a few more passengers onto each aluminium tube.

 

The Manufacturers love him though, as he's now saying he's ordering another 200 or so aircraft from Boeing ( he doesn't like Airbus aparently, as they refuse to cram enough seats into their aeroplanes to suit his wallet )

 

Any pilot stupid enough to want to work for him has to purchase his / her uniform from the Ryanair Shop, and take their own sandwiches onto EVERY flight, as all crews are excluded from the on board meals list. He's even bringing in a rule which whill mean you have to pay a Quid to go for a wee. ( I'm not joking ) This must surely fall into the category of taking the Pee. . .?

 

I know a couple of guys who are already Captains on 737, but he insists that EVERYONE has to go through another Ryanair-derived 737 course at huge expense, irrespective of their hours, experience or qualifications.

 

If I get sued for this, It was my secretary who typed it and not Phil.

 

Phil's secretary.

 

 

"Handle those fancy looking birds"... "Fondle the old girl once again"...Are we still talking planes??

Marty. . . .are you SURE you don't require therapy ?

 

(!) Phil

 

 

Speaking of "Where has all the time gone. . . ." does anyone remember a guy called Aden Wickes, who was a Qantas 747 captain, and quite a character too. . . who organised a trip for three Thrusters ( single seat models ) up the Queensland coast many years ago ? This documentary was shown on UK TV, and caused an immediate upsurge in enquiries for "Ultralight" and Microlight flying lessons ! ! The video shows that one of the three thrusters didn't make it, as it crashed whilst landing on water at the start of the journey ( obviously, it had some floats attached ! )

 

I still have a copy of the old VHS video of this programme, . . . I just need to find a VHS playing appliance to have another look at it ! This video spurred my younger Brother Raymond to go out and buy a trike, which he crashed in a severe crosswind in 1995 and swerved into a 5ft deep Oilseed Rape crop, and ended up inverted with a sand ballast trapping him in the trike with the engine still running. . . he lost his nerve and never flew again regrettably. . .,. . .but that's just by the by. . .

 

Phil

 

 

Much the same figures in NSW, Turbs. Our Rescue Squad saw a huge reduction in callouts after the introduction of RBT. Thousands are alive today because the authorities applied science to a problem, then legislated some unpopular changes to people's behaviour. A great Australian success story. Perhaps RAAus can make similar improvements to our safety record without taking away too many of our freedoms.

What is the meaning behind the letters R B T please ? ( Being a resident Pom at the moment, I'm not Au fait with your regs. )

 

Phil

 

 

Having discussed a lot of previous cases on this, and indeed other forums, I can only conclude the following, with my total lack of knowledge of the manner in which RAA was set up in the first instance.

 

In the UK, we have the A.A.I.B. the Air Accident Investigation Branch, which is separate specialist department of the CAA, and world renown for it's superb quality of service to the aviation industry and private aviation. They always investigate ANY and EVERY FATAL accident involving an UK registered aircraft, however big or small. I'm not really certain how this is all funded, but as you probably all realise, the entire land mass of Britain fits neatly TWICE into an area smaller than the state of Victoria, so they don't really have to travel very far ( relatively) in any particular direction to carry out their work.

 

Australia is ABSOLUTELY VAST by comparison, ( APPROX 32 TIMES THE SIZE OF THE UK ? ) with pilots flying in all corners of the continent AND IN THE MIDDLE TOO. . . ., which must cause an enormous headache in itself with regard to transport / time /cost logistics, and also the collection of a specialist investigation team for the accident, depending upon whether it's a trike or a Boeing 777. I would suggest that this is one reason, though perhaps not a primary one, but a hugely important consideration nonetheless. And since the ATSB also investigate OTHER transport accidents, Trains, buses, ships running into docks, etc. . . It isn't hard to see that they are probably a bit busy without a special unit dedicated to aviation incidents.

 

Australia has obviously grown up into aviation over the past 50 years or so in a slightly different manner, with differing Governmental priorities. . . from what I've been reading over the last few months from obviously very knowledgeable members who seem to have a grasp on how your system works. . . . ( I still don't )

 

In the UK, the Police always attend an air accident, and are, usually along with first responder paramedics,. . .. but have absolutely NOTHING to do with any sort of investigation of cause whatsoever, and our coroner can only complete a case when advised of the probable cause by the A.A.I.B. and no other organisation. Only then can the families of the deceased get any closure.

 

However, in some cases, due to the workload, these results quite often take up to a couple of years before the final result is published, but PUBLISHED it ALWAYS is. . . . in most of the available aviation journals, so that HOPEFULLY, someone else won't make the same mistake, should a mistake or error have been cited as the primary cause.

 

I don't have a lot of time lately to research stuff like this, but I will try to find out how the accident investigation branch are specifically funded, and if I can find this information I will post it here. This discussion seems to be an ongoing subject, and I find it most interesting.

 

Phil

 

 

Just an update to my earlier post, regarding interlopers at the Isle of Man. . . .

 

It turns out that three of the trikes mentioned were completely Kosher, having completed all of the required procedures to land at Andreas airfield on the North end of the island, where we always camp over for the TT races.

 

Only ONE of the trikes was commanded by a naughty burger, driving a Kwik trike, and I gather that someone got his rego, so he will be, and possibly already has, received a visit from some big hairy Special Branch coppers. If he was carrying some naughty substances, then they probably won't be able to get him for that, but they certainly will have him for flying in without the correct procedures. They almost ALWAYS prosecute for breaches of the anti-terrorism legislation. We've already had a couple of guys dragged out of a pub in Douglas for similar offences a couple of years ago, they really don't mess about.

 

Mind you, Australia is a pretty big place, and not THAT easily handy and close to foreign nations. . . so I wonder if there are any recorded incidents of people flying in using private aircraft without permission ??

 

Phil

 

 

Hi Jamesh, and welcome to the forum.

 

I'm sure you'll get a lot of brilliant ideas for a film script if you do a bit of reading around on here. . . .!

 

We have some quite interesting and very experienced characters. ( that's why I'm here, I've learned loads already ! )

 

Welcome.

 

Phil

 

 

Welcome Darren. Group A is not a term used here, so you might have to elaborate. Nev

Welcome to the forum Darren. . . .hope we'll hear a lot from you . . . .

 

"Group A" used to be a term used in Pommieland to describe General Aviation flying. And in the very early days Nev, . . .back when you and I were sprogs,. . .it used to be called "Getting your 'A' Licence" Now it's all rather Europeanised,. . . my PPL licence covers S.E.P. /( single engine piston ) Landplane. . . ( lost the seaplane and float rating too. . . ) up to 5,700 Kgs. And restricted to 250 Knots . . . .I dropped the multis and twins on a pure private hours maintenance / cost basis. . . no I/R now either, a UK IMC rating isn't really a lot of use,. . . You can fly in cloud enroute, but the departure and arrival airfields must be in VMC. . . . dunno what I'll do if I fly into cloud inadvertantly now. . . .I'll just have to lose control and die, otherwise I'll be in breach of the regs and suffer a heavy fine.

 

Phil

 

 

I wiped all my fingerprints from it so no one will know it was me. Flys good.. Nev

AAAAAAHHHHH . . . BUT NEV. . . . I hope you didn't break wind whilst doing a heavy landing,. . . . it's AMAZING what small amount of gas / tissue they need for a DNA Profile !

 

( Editor's Note. . . DNA = National Dyslexic Association )

 

Phil

 

 

Hiya Tex,

 

Thanks for that. although, 90 feet away is one thing, . . . 30 odd feet is a little different ( ! ) we were flying in close formation when the "Happening" occurred, YES - - - I know that close formation flying takes a lot of practice, and we certainly DID have that over some years. . . BUT. . I just got TOO close after performing several identical "Camera ship" flights that day, and even though the lead pilot was "Hagar the Flexwing" ( around 14,000 hours instructing on trikes since flying a shopping trolley and a hang glider wing powered by a chainsaw motor in the 70's. . .) ) I failed to allow for the fact that he just MIGHT turn sharply on the climbout. This equals Pilot Error / stupidity / complacency on my part and I freely admit this.

 

If anyone ever tries to fly formation with me lately, ( some jokers do try this,. . ) I just have a good look around and then burger off in another direction !

 

Phil

 

 

It's no a grammatical error. It's an oxymoron - a phrase in which the adjective is inconsistent with the meaning of the noun, like "honest politician", CASA Help desk, President resigns.OME

I actually witnessed the immediate aftermath of this procedure in Papua New Guinea in the seventies, . . . in that a trainee, around ooh, I dunno, he could have been around thirty'ish years old maybe. . was taught ( on the ground ) how to "Gas-Axe" through a steel RSJ, and a few other test pieces of metal, using an oxy-acetylene torch set up for cutting.

 

The next day he broke his left leg falling off the end of a bolted roof purlin which he had been sitting on,. . . and gas-axed the over-length section off, but whilst sitting on the outer end of it. ( I only saw him fall the fifteen odd feet to the deck,. . . . . . Honestly, I didn't watch him actually DO it. ) {Commonsense should not be EXPECTED, and only comes after SOME training methinks}

 

D'yer think that this would this rate as an. . . ( wait for it ) OXY MORON ? [ OK, Maybe more like a poor industrial instructor. . .! ]

 

Phil.

 

( I can't fly but I'm telling you, I've recently been eating great steak from a . . . .Kangaroo. )

 

In a popular London restaurant too. . . . . )

 

 

Here's an interesting one, . . .involving a member of my own family, ( NON - Flier by the way ) My Brother Graham has just returned from the Isle of Man TT races after spending a couple of weeks on the Island with his Wife and three friends on four motorcycles ( I couldn't get the time of Work this year GRRRR ! )

 

The Isle of Man ( for all you non-Poms and geographical southernites, is located between the English mainland, and that of Ireland, in the Irish Sea. The TT races have been held for over 100 years. The Flight regulations are subject to the prevention of terrorism act, as with flights to the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland,. . . and any pilot wishing to fly from England to the I.O.M. has to submit a GAR ( Gen aviation report form) 12 hours prior to any planned flight, and copies of this are sent to the Police Special Branch. On landing, all pilots have to complete a Special Branch landing card, which details the aircraft reg, the name of the pilot and passenger, and the proposed length of their stay. They have to then fill out a Departure card, and leave it in the Special Branceh letterbox for collection the following day. They must also have lodged a Flight Plan for BOTH trips, and been in continual communication with Scottish Information nad Ronaldsway Airport ATC, even though technically the I.O.M. Is classed as "British" even though it has it's own parliament, which is in fact OLDER than the British one ( ! )

 

Whilst on the Island, my Brother saw four trikes land at the site, containing eight persons in all. . . who, it tuned out, had NO permission to land, NOR any flight plans, Nor any Special Branch clearances, and these people were met by someone in a Range Rover with blacked out windows ( suspicious ?) where some discussion and the passing of goods one way or the other was witnessed. My Brother had no idea of the flight regulations to/from the Island until I told him about it later, and after he and his friends had ridden their bikes off the site for a ride around the circuit, they returned to find their tents ransacked, and several items, including foodstuffs stolen from their tent city.

 

Special branch are investigating, and it appears that the "Flock of miscreants" were from the Liverpool area ( or so they appeared by their accents )

 

Special Branch are now investigating this incident, and if any of the pilots concerned are identified, they will be facing almost certian Jail terms.

 

I'll let you know if this develops any further. Regrettably, my Brother did not take any registrations, as at that time, he had no real reason to, with no knowledge of flight regs. This lot broke around five primary rules during their little excursion, and I hope we find out who they were as they give us all a bloody bad name.

 

Phil

 

 

I do love the British attitude to it all though. The lady standing proudly smiling next to the plane that almost crashed through their house.I'd love to see an American take on the same accident... :)

Yes. . . D'you remember the comments made by the nice American lady after an F117A stealth broke up in the air at a local airshow and fell onto her house ??

 

She said. . ."Gee,. . . . A'hm sure glad we weren't at home when that happened. . " Reasonable take on that incident, but she Was Not smiling. . . .

 

Phil

 

 

Sorry Phil but if you are suggesting the 'powerful rotational force' is caused by prop wash, you are wrong. I fly hang gliders and paragliders (no engine or prop) and these can produce very strong 'rotational wash', also known as wing tip vortices. These vortices are caused by spanwise flow of air along the wing from root to tip. When it leaves the wing tip it does so in a spiral a bit like water going down the plug hole of a bath tub. If you fly in these vortices you may experience a strong rolling force which may cause your aircraft to roll substantially. If conditions are very still these vortices can hang around for quite a while before they dissipate. This is why it is advisable not to land too close behind another aircraft.

Thanks for that Keen. . . .

 

As I mentioned, " A combination of both " . . .having seen these things on numerous occasions in wind tunnel setups, the wing (+ prop) turbulence combinations displayed with visible smoke injection at different velocities and angles of attack can be really spectacular, and not to be treated lightly by ANY aircraft which may be following. . . .

 

Phil

 

 

Um pardon me but wouldn't there be greater wake turbulence coming from the prop on a trike as on as trike the prop is at the back! your 3 axis has the prop at the front and the passage of air over the aircraft must reduce the props vortices, but on a trike?????? maybe a trike could produce greater wake turbulence????Anyway off topic, we already know that wake turbulence was not a factor in this incident..

Hiya Nafqr. . .

 

I dunno whether you were referring to the thread where I described an experience I had some years ago whilst carrying a cameraman to video someone's first flight in a flexwing ( sorry - Trike. . .) where I inadvertantly allowed my aircraft to drift into the wake of the trike ahead, as he turned unexpectedly in very still evening air. . . resulting in a really severe uncommanded roll by MY aeroplane, 90 degrees approx to the right at very low level, . . .I got lambasted for my comments about this from people with degrees in aerodynamics who explained ( obviously with a pained and sympathetic expression as they were typing ) that I was talking rubbish and that the sudden air disturbance MUST have been created by the WING of the preceding trike, as a result of it's aerodynamic lift and the fact that this MUST have been the reason. Sorry, but had this been the case ( and I've had that as well, on more than a number of occasions. . .) I feel that I would have been shaken around like a sack of spuds in a dustbin had it not been the rotational turbulence from the propwash which caused the incident. YES. . I agree,. . . It Could well have been a combination of both. . . .

 

Rotax two stroke engines rotate clockwise when viewed from the propeller end. . . and can cause terrific rotational wake turbulence, as someone I know found out last week when he departed immediately following a 912S powered trike, and ended up returning to the ground in an uncommanded turn and breaking the undercarriage, prop, and some of the ally tubes.

 

THIS is what created the rotational disturbance which caused my severe roll, . . . I understand ( without having a degree in the subject ) that there is quite a complex airflow situation over and under a trike wing, having amassed over a thousand hours experience flying on numerous types of trike, ( not enough to be anywhere near an expert, but having AT LEAST SOME knowledge of how they work. ) I really DON'T mind the " No Phil. . .You've got it wrong" comments so long as they come from a witness who actually SAW what happened, or else someone I like a lot. ( X ) !

 

Sorry about the thread drift.

 

Phil