Phil Perry

DID YOU KNOW. . . .

 

That,. . . . in the USA, between 1983 and 2000, there were 568 recorded aircraft crashes.

 

Now, 51,207 of the 53,487 persons on board these aircraft,. . . actually got out alive. This reveals a survival rate of 96 percent . . ! Not bad Huh Buddy ? ? ? ?!!

 

Phil

 

 

I have never flown a Gazelle. I learned to fly at age 16 in a Moraine Salnier Rallye MS880B,a very forgiving STOL aircraft. I then went to C150, C172, Citabria 7GCBC, then C182RG, C180, C185, C206, Auster. during my GA PPL times I also flew the Frank Bailey designed 95:10 Mustang and the Drifter back in the 80s this was before the AUF.When I finally did my AUF conversion a few years back I did the LP part in a Drifter and the HP part in a Foxbat. Love both aircraft, the Foxbat was a delight to fly, predictable, responsive, not docile, plenty of control authority right down to the stall. The hold off and flair were stable and predictable, I fell in love with it in minutes. The only thing missing was the little wheel on the tail ... LOL. The instructor told me to taxi with the yoke back as the nose leg was a weak point, that was habitual with me as most of my time has been in tail wheelers.

 

I would say the Foxbat was an ideal trainer except a trainer should ideally be very strong to cater for the inevitable student hard landings.

I agree with you David,. . .the first time I flew a foxbat, ( G-FBAT ) number 1 in the uk, . . .I was appalled at the pathetic bicycle brake lever jobbie on the stick. ( JUST A NOTE HERE,. . .THEY DIDN'T ALLOW YOKES IN THE UK,. . .WE HAD TO HAVE A SINGLE CENTRAL STICK. . . ) This had to be released whilst trying to start the engine, having the left hand on the stupidly mounted throttle lever, situated on the bottom of the bloody door frame ( ! ) then grabbed again when the engine fired to prevent the aircraft from running forward, since it was not conveniently fitted with any type of parking brake.. . . . What the hell the designers were thinking about when they didn't simply place a push pull throttle assembly mid panel A La Cessna. . .Gawd only knows. . . . this way, one hand could have operated the start switch whilst being only a few inches away from the throttle, thereby making the whole process rather more ergonomically pleasant. . . . . apart from this small irritant, and the fact that the airframe is a bit of a slippery bugger if you don't watch out,. . . .It is a really nice aeroplane ! ! !

 

 

If you look carefully, you'll see that the Foxbat comes standard with a tailwheel:[ATTACH=full]23209[/ATTACH]

Er,. . . . . .I think, upon closer insoection, you'll find that this isn't actually a TAILWHEEL, rather a shopping trolley wheel added for cosmetic appeal. After "A certain number" of hours spent in energised Foxbats. . . . . I can honestly say that none of my cohorts has ever scraped the shopping trolley wheel on the ground in any phase of a flight. Why the Aeroprakt designer guys put it there is a mystery. . . .maybe it was a dig at the fact that Brit pilots are not as good as their counterparts in Eastern Europe. . .?

 

 

Geez, . . .thanks Metal, . . . . this looks almost identical to the Denney KITFOX in which I have about a half million hours, ( might be overestimating here. . . just a little . . .) I can't IMAGINE putting a nosedragger training wheel on KITFOX,. . . this would be simply an utter barstardization of a pure flying machine. . . . BUT - - - I can't argue with those who like a wheel at the front as well. . . . ( it takes all sorts to make a groundloop )

 

Thanks for the heads up matey . . .

 

Phil

 

 

Its worse than that. Its for the rich and old. For young people flying an aircraft is as interesting as driving a bus.

I disagree wholeheartedly with that statement,. . . . as, every young person I have EVER taken for an air experience flight in either a twin, or single GA, or a microlight; has displayed an ENORMOUS interest in how it all works, and were all enthralled by the experience. The only barrier was. . . .THE COST of learning to fly / owning an aircraft / keeping it in a hangar somewhere. . . . .dah di dah di dah. . . .

 

Phil

 

 

Probably a good idea to give the Irish a rest for a while.

Irish Phil . . .? I must have missed something. . . OHHHH You want some Irish stories ?. . . . can't think of one at the moment,. . .bin a long day, usually, in the UK, there has to be a really major disaster then suddenly the electronic media is full of very distasteful humour regarding that subject. . .strange that,. . .must be some kind of sub-psychological defence mechanism. . . As for the Irish, well,. . .I DO remember, after my first ( and only ) trip to Wexford in Eire, asking an Irishperson why it seemed to me that the grass in Ireland appeared to be so green,. . . he replied, . . . "Sure and that's because we're all over here in the UK walking on yours. . . . ."

 

 

Now come on. . . . . "FATE" in the English Black country dialect,. . . are those strange shaped things with toes, on the end of each of your legs.

 

 

The Foxbat is not a "Pilot's" aeroplane, it is better described as a "Gentleman's aeronautical Appliance" no vices ( that I've ever found. . ) what was it that Douglas Adams said . . .? oh yes,. . ."Mostly Harmless" . . . .good description of the Aeroprakt A-22.

 

Phil ( wot's an Aussie Gazelle look like ? ? ? ? )

 

 

So for the guys that have flown both the Gazelle and the Foxbat, which one would they say is the easiest to learn to fly in? and why?David

Can you show me a picture of a Gazelle,. . . .as I'm not familiar with the type. Over here in the steaming hot UK, ( they reckon it'll be 35 celcius tomorrow. . .) a "Gazelle" is a serious looking military helicopter. . . . ( which I have not flown either. . .

Phil

 

 

It was a hot Saturday evening in the summer of 1960, and Fred had a date with Peggy Sue.

 

He arrived at her house and rang the bell.

 

'Oh, come on in!' Peggy Sue's mother said as she welcomed Fred in.

 

'Have a seat in the living room. Would you like something to drink?

 

Lemonade? tea?'

 

'Tea, please,' Fred said. Mum brought the tea.

 

'So, what are you and Peggy planning to do tonight?' she asked.

 

'Oh, probably watch a film, and then maybe grab a bite to eat at the milk bar, maybe take a walk on the beach.'

 

'Peggy likes to screw, you know,' Mum informed him.

 

'Really?' Fred replied; eyebrows raised.

 

'Oh yes,' mother continued, 'When she goes out with her friends, that's all they do!'

 

'Is that so?' asked Fred, incredulous.

 

'Yes,' said the mother.

 

'As a matter of fact, she'd screw all night if we let her!'

 

'Well, thanks for the tip!' Fred said as he began thinking about alternate plans for the evening.

 

A moment later, Peggy Sue came down the stairs looking pretty as a picture, wearing a pink blouse and a hoop skirt, and with her hair tied back in a bouncy ponytail.

 

She greeted Fred.

 

'Have fun, kids!' mother said as they left.

 

Half an hour later, a completely dishevelled Peggy Sue burst into the house and slammed the front door behind her.

 

'The Twist, Mum!' she angrily yelled to her mother in the kitchen.

 

'The bloody dance is called the ....Twist!'

 

From the Cannock Amateur Radio Society ( Humour division )

 

 

Primary school geography lesson. Teacher asks the children : "OK . . who can describe an Island ?" . . .Millie says " Miss,. . .An Island is a body of land completely surrounded by water. "Very Good Millie, says the teacher,. . Now,. .who can describe a Lake ?" How about you Brett,. . .Brett says " Well Miss, a lake is a body of water completely surrounded by land " . . . "VERY GOOD" says the teacher, . . . . .now, who can describe a Beach ?" . . .how about You Manuel ?" Manuel replies . . ." Well Meez, a Beech is a lady dog completely surrounded by Man dogs. . . . "

 

 

Pom goes to the doctor's with a parrot on his shoulder. The doctor asks,. . ."well, what is the problem ?" . . . . the parrot says,. . . . I'm not real sure mate, . . . it started off as a boil on me foot. . . .

 

 

Primary school teacher says to the bunch of five year olds gathered around,. . . now children, last week we talked about Deductions,. you remember, if something happens, you think very carefully and then you DEDUCE the reason for what is happening. . .now, have any of you got an example of this today,. . .how about, you young Kevin,. . . what have you got there ? . . . . . . young Kevin produces a matchbox and opens it to reveal a small spider. He takes out the spider and puts it on the desktop. He says to the spider. . . "Spider - walk towards me". The spider does as it is told. He then says, "spider, walk away from me to the edge of the desk". . . the spider turns around and does this. . He then picks up the spider and pulls out all of it's legs. He then says. . " Spider, walk towards me" . . .the spider does not move. He than asks "Spider, walk to the end of the desk " Again the spider doesn't move. Kevin looks up and smiles at the teacher.

 

The teachers winces, and asks . ." Mmm, OK then Kevin, . . . . what do you deduce from this ?"

 

Kevin says, " Well Miss,. . . it's obvious. . . if you pull a spider's legs off,. . . it goes deaf.

 

 

I get annoyed they screach out my name every morning, it's like being married to every one of them.

Oh, I KNOW I Know. . . .it's awful sometimes what fate does to poor defenceless animals,. . . . my neighbour has a rather large dog, I think it's a giant poodle or something crossed with a labrador ( Giant Labradoodle ? ? ? ) dunno, but the poor thing is most distressed when he is doing a bit of overtime and is late home from his work shift. The poor thing stands at the end of the driveway making a noise which for all the world sounded like . . . . "MARK - - - MARK - - -MARK " . . . . It got so bad that I just HAD to ask him what it was doing and he told me that the poor thing had a Hair Lip.

 

 

Yes, 'keep-it-straight' comes out of an instructors mouth far more fluently, and allows for the insertion of some descriptive adjectives, than does 'please maintain directional control'........................ which is how the groundloop is described.happy days,

I've found from experience flying with quite a few pilots. . .( not a serious control group experiment perhaps. . .) that when switching from a flying triangle to a three axis controlled machine, ALL of the trike pilots had some difficulty with the "Foot Steering" bit,. . . when the most common thought at the time was that they would have more trouble converting pitch control inputs. . . but this didn't seem so in most cases. I certainly had a few wild moments when converting from three axis to flexwing,. . sorry, trike aircraft, but only with steering on the ground during landing and departure ops. Had to weld my feet together and think very carefully before even attempting to correct a slight divergence left or right during landings particularly,. . . got quite exciting on a couple of occasions ! My trike instructor got me through it though,. . .I got my own back for some of his "less than complimentary" instructional comments some years later when HE converted to three axis. . . .

 

After a while, most pilots seem to be able to swap types as easy as car to bike and back. . . . and it seems quite natural.

 

ANYWAY GUYS 'N' GALS. . . . If I' m not mistaken, . . .we have drifted off topic again,. albeit a very interesting discussion Love and world peace to all ( no, I have not had any red wine yet this evening )

 

Phil

 

 

Have always used .... keep it straight - KEEP IT STRAIGHT - KEEP IT STRAIGHT!!#*#**!!happy days,

I tried this in a Piper Warrior once with a Trike pilot in the right seat. . . . . I kept yelling KEEP THE GODDAMN THING STRAIGHT. . . . he said " I'm bloody trying my best. . . but it keeps going the wrong way. . . . .

 

 

A friend told the blond man: "Christmas is on a Friday this year." The blond man then said, "Let's hope it's not the 13th."

 

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Two blond men find three grenades, and they decide to take

 

them to a police station. One asked: "What if one explodes before we get there?" The other says: "We'll lie and say we only found two."

 

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A woman phoned her blonde neighbor man and said: "Close your curtains the next time you & your wife are having sex. The whole street was watching and laughing at you yesterday." To which the blonde man replied: "Well the joke's on all of you because I wasn't even at home yesterday."

 

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A blonde man is in the bathroom and his wife shouts: "Did you find the shampoo?" He answers, "Yes, but I'm not sure what to do... it's for dry hair, and I've just wet mine."

 

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A blonde man goes to the vet with his goldfish. "I think it's got epilepsy," he tells the vet. The vet takes a look and says, "It seems calm enough to me." The blonde man says, "Wait, I haven't taken it out of the bowl yet."

 

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A blond man spies a letter lying on his doormat. It says on the envelope "DO NOT BEND ". He spends the next 2 hours trying to figure out how to pick it up.

 

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A blond man shouts frantically into the phone "My wife is pregnant and her contractions are only two minutes apart!"

 

"Is this her first child?" asks the Doctor. "No!" he shouts, "this is her husband!"

 

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A blonde man was driving home, drunk as a skunk. Suddenly he has to swerve to avoid a tree, then another, then another. A cop car pulls him over, so he tells the cop about all the trees in the road. The cop says, "That's your air freshener swinging about!"

 

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A blonde man's dog goes missing and he is frantic. His wife says "Why don't you put an ad in the paper?" He does, but two weeks later the dog is still missing. "What did you put in the paper?" his wife asks. "Here boy!" he replies.

 

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A blond man is in jail. Guard looks in his cell and sees him

 

hanging by his feet. "Just WHAT are you doing?" he asks.

 

"Hanging myself," the blond replies. "It should be around your neck" says the guard. "I tried that," he replies, "but then I couldn't breathe."

 

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(This one actually makes sense.)

 

An Italian tourist asks a blonde man: "Why do Scuba divers

 

always fall backwards off their boats?" To which the blonde man replies: "If they fell forward, they'd still be in the boat."

 

( From Cannock Blonde Aeronautical Society )

 

 

 

I all most fell off my rocking chair (saved only by my long-tailed cat ) when I first read that news report out of the US news media on the 'names' of the flight crew..! If it was not so disturbing by being released by the NTSB and do easily to see it was a set-up it would have been hilarious. The names were amazingly so funny it really did break me up until I regained my err composure and realized the seriousness and utter disrespect towards both the flight crew, the company and the tragic outcome.But humans will be human even in the darkest hour...

On a related note. . . . I bought a rocking chair for my Mother in law. . . . and the cat's tail actually DID get caught under one of the rockers. . . . I didn't realise that there were so many nerve sensors in a tail ? cat went out of the window making a really horrible screaming noise, and has not been seen since.

 

Just thought I'd mention that ( dunno why really. . . anyone seen a fat tabby with a flat bit in it's tail ? )

 

 

Sum Yung Gai was fired over it.

Careful Bex. . . . . . better leave this one alone OR. . . . . next time you visit China, sum yung gai at passport control might have your card marked ! . . . . . .

 

 

Phil, If I was marketing a plane I would not present it initially as a tailwheel version unless it was an aerobatic type specifically. I watched Tailwheels become almost obsolete in the 60's. I think the Handley Page HASTINGS was the last 4 engined TW airliner. There must have been occasions when landing that was a bit exciting. The Douglas DC-4 was only slightly bigger but landing it was easy and it's a tricycle gear. Tailwheel will only be a small segment of sport aviation because no matter how good/lucky you are one day you are gonna ground loop it. Not everyone likes them, but I do, as there are a few good reasons why they are more flexible, but I wouldn't try to talk everyone into them. Nev

Nev, I don't disagree with ANY of the above points, and since the laws of physics ref the C of G positioning will never alter much, the ground loop will always be an "event in waiting" I also adore tailwheels, obviously, learning to fly with them in the first instance did tend to colour my perspective somewhat in the following years. We only have one TW left at our club, ( out of a total of fifty six machines, nine of which were tailwheel. . . ) the last three, Vans 7 & and 3, and a Denney Kitfox Mk 4 were all recently sold because the owners did not feel really "Comfortable" with them. The remaining one is a Kitfox 3, flown under GA rules due to the higher wing loading. This is owned by a veteran TW pilot, who has only groundlooped it once, and other types around a dozen times ( so he tells me !) He is currently removing the 582 Rotax and replacing it with a 912. Perhaps the tailwheel variant will live on as an option in newer designs for those "Niche" pilots ? I fervently hope so . . . Phil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Taildragger pilots are becoming more rare, Maj and may not be properly skilled and practiced. At times I would go long periods out of flying a DH 82 but when I got at one again I knew that the first landing might not be my prettiest but It would still be safe because if things weren't exactly right I would give it away and go around. Haven't bent anything yet. Nev

Nev, Don't you think that taildragger pilots becoming rare might just be because most of the new types being designed nowadays have a nosewheel ?

 

Just a thought. . . .

 

Phil

 

 

If an Ops person has been called to the scene as an expert advisor by Police, you would expect him to have a good knowledge of what was evident at the scene, ie before any metallurgical tests etc.However, he is under police control so is restricted in what he can say, otherwise I'd suggest we would see regular reports. On the other hand the Ops guy may be telling you what he knows from personal discussions, which is likely to be a lot more than we know after internet discussions (although sometimes we dig down and find out things they don't know). All of that can be useful for general discussion as against a veil of silence.

 

Failures like a flaperon in a Gazelle which caused loss of control and life are likely to come out on RF discussions. Failures which just upend the aircraft come out in quite good quantities in Pilot Notes in the magazine, but at times it seems to me the report has been written by the local baker given the sparse information. That a Jabiru departed the runway and wend end over end into a ditch after landing doesn't tell us anything about which model, the wind, runway quality, mechanical failure, or pilot error.

This is a very useful idea in my view, . . . I have already asked various questions with regard to accident reporting ( or apparent lack thereof insofar as RAA machines are concerned. . . ) in Australia.

 

I have only ever ONCE been asked ( by the British A.A.I.B.) to be present at an accident site where a personal friend was killed in a flexwing type ( Trike ) as, I knew the person concerned, was a member of his Club and owned / flew an identical machine. At that time ( 1995 ) the AAIB had not previously investigated a "fatal" in the UK involving a flexwing aircraft ( or at least,. . THIS particular team hadn't ) and their guys asked me lots of questions regarding description of components of the machine, speeds, general "weather resistance" ( interesting one that. . .) and various handling characteristics etc.

 

After about three hours on site, I managed to contact a flexwing "Guru" called Simon Baker who was then a senior instructor with loads of international trike flight under his belt and I left him with the crashteam guys ( and lady ) and then rather impolitely buggered off to the local wine bar. ( He never forgave me for that )

 

That investigation was however, assisted enormously by the fact that the aircraft came to grief on a site used by lots of aero modellers. Whilst none of these witnesses were actually licensed pilots,. . .the information that they were able to give was really valuable ( so the AAIB people reckoned anyway ) as they really do KNOW a bit about how aircraft fly, and what wind was present on the site at the time etc. . . and could describe to a man pretty well EXACTLY what occurred, in good technical detail.

 

Anyway, I realise I am digressing just a LITTLE bit here, and I don't want to hijack the thread. The thrust of my comment is that all of these reports are finally PUBLISHED, and noone is ever silenced by the police nor anyone else. If the RF forum can be cleverly ( and safely. . . potential Litigation ? . . .) employed to shed more light on some of the accidents hereinbefore mentioned then this HAS TO BE a distinct advantage, as Turbo has suggested PROVIDING that the threads are categorised in a sensible manner as the poster has already detailed. I'll be interested to see if this works. Can't help much, I'm too far away. . . .

 

It's a bit like when my old uncle Ernie the farmer used to take me on his horse and cart and we were stopped in our tracks by a gigantic pile of horsedung, he always used to say. . . .

 

If we cant' get THROUGH it, then we'll have to find a way to get AROUND IT.

 

Phil

 

 

Being married for over 30 years gave me practice.

AAAHHH. . . sounds a bit like my marriage. . . . . .I have not spoken to my Wife for nearly five years,. . . . I mean,. . . I don't like to interrupt her.

 

( Just thought I'd mention that in passing ) [ en passant ? ]

 

 

You get fined for shooting policeman? My, that is harsh!

Sad to say I'm not going, my work and residents visa is due right now and it takes at least 7 days for each process (they need my passport) and I hear America doesn't let you in without a passport .... fussy bar stands.

Sorry to hear you can't go either mate. . . . I have not got my promised accident "Compo" yet either, which means I won't be going either ! ! ! Looks like our mate Paul will be on his own ( apart from a few thousand other aviation buffs. . . .)

 

Phil