Phil Perry

But. . . . . . . .

 

Don't they ALREADY DO THIS . . .

 

in Tel Aviv ? ? ? ? ? ?

 

 

djp, they always said that, but I can't see it in practice. I wonder if we are OFF topic? Nev

I don't know if we are too far off topic Nev,. but whe the new European regs are enforced in the UK, there will be numerous problems. Whosoever has "Worked out" the new E.A.S.A. regs, ( available to anyone who has the internet by the way. . .) create a whole NEW level of beaurocracy hereinbefore never imagined. . . . with totally new regs for everything, new pilot licences, new aircraft certification processes, in fact far too MUCH change, and none of it though through properly, because anyone who understands aviation requirements sensibly, is excluded from any of the decision making discussions or processes.

 

The only sensible route for the UK is to vote a resounding "GET OUT OF EUROPE ALTOGETHER " in the promised referendum post 2015 to try to restore any form of commonsense to the situation. Which is the main reason that the the current UK Government will not allow an immediate referendum on this in during the term of the existing parliament, as they are already certain that it will be an overwhelming "Dump Europe" vote, and then the current MPs will have to leave politics and get jobs as dustmen, or posties, and forego any fancy, lucrative posts with golden pensions in the newer and even more bloated european union parliaments ( Brussels and Strasbourg )

 

In the meantime, regulation regarding flying of any sort here is in total turmoil.

 

Phil

 

 

The Gazelle taught me to flyThe Jabiru taught me to be a pilot

The CTsw taught me experience

"The GLIDER taught me to fly

 

The L-11 Bird dog taught me to fly with an ENGINE

 

a few dozen other types taught me experience BUT. . . .,

 

The local Microlight CFI still says I fly like a tit ( ! )

 

( Moral - - - - it's GOOD, occasionally, to see ourselves as others see us. . . ? )

 

Phil

 

 

Errr... from experience, with two largish passengers in the back seat, you can break off the rear tie-down ring on the C172 in an otherwise very nice (if a little nose-high) landing.Didn't even realise until the CFI rang me up the next day!

Marty, . . .Marty. . .

 

You can land C- 172 without scraping it's Ass. . . unless you hold it off too long of course ! ! This is one of the easiest aeroplanes by far that I have ever had the privilege to fly. They are so benign in most facets of flight, especially LANDINGS. A bit like driving an old bus really. . .and I mean no disrespect to the designer when I say that.

 

I recently set one up for an approach to EGNS ( Isle of Man airport, Ronaldsway ) to demonstrate to my Microlight pilot passengers how stable it was, . . and they were "Gobsmacked" at how it actually landed itself, quite gently using 1100 rpm, 25 deg flap ( approx ) and with NO hold-off nor flare applied by me, on rwy 26 at I.O.M. [ I had not planned on not actually applying pitch-up input to flare, but that's how it turned out ! ] and NO,. . .It DIDN'T wheelbarrow on the nosewheel either ( ! ) we got a friendly gust which pitched it up just enough ! ! Yeah, ok. . ok, I had to keep it straight on the rwy using my size 12's. but that's fair, as one of the tyres was fractionally under-pressure. . . ( I always do an exceptionally good pre-flight, but don't normally carry a tyre pressure gauge in me flight case. . . ! )

 

One of the best tin boxes that was ever designed in my view, which is supported by the fact that for many years, it was the most produced and numerous airframe on the planet, only being knocked off it's pillar by the Bell bloody Jetranger ! ! ! ( totally unfair in my view ! )

 

Phil

 

 

This is a quotation from the ICP Savannah's POH:

20 knots crosswind for the lesser experienced pilots is a very good crosswind figure!

"Very Good" if you wanna get blown off the runway sideways cobber ! ! ! ! !

 

( But I fly a Savannah, and I do know what you're getting at H )

 

When flying my friend Simon's Savannah, I always use the standard taildragger "Wing well down into wind" right onto the deck sideslip to stay on the centreline, but I've only done this in Xwinds reported as around 16/17 knots from almost 90 deg off strip. ( so far, it has worked and I have not bent it yet. . . ! ! )

 

Phil

 

 

One of the most notable was an Auster 2 seat archer that got away at Bankstown and took ages for someone to shoot it down. It is fairly hard to believe a tailwheel plane would keep straight on take off with no one in it. Nev

Just goes to show Nev,. . that some aircraft types fly perfectly well, that is, until a "Pilot" interferes with the controls ! ! ! ! !

 

Phil

 

 

That is exactly what I meant. A great trainer because of control authority and what I call control resolution ... BUT sadly they have still killed a few students with instructors.

Hi again David. . . .

 

You mention that (sadly - I AGREE ! ) some students have been killed WITH AN INSTRUCTOR ON BOARD. . . .? I wonder why this was,. . . YES, I agree that any instructor must, at some stage of pilot training, allow the student to get into a "Little bit of difficulty". . . and then show them how to correct the situation, whether this be "Slightly" heavy landings, or unusual attitudes. . . but NO INSTRUCTOR SHOULD EVER allow the situation to regress to a point where it is non-recoverable, this is insane and unacceptable. YET, yes. . . it appears to occasionally occur.

 

When I became an "Instructor" . . .I must admit to thoughts of personal invulnerability also, but a few students made me realise that this was not even slightly the case. I found that "Mr, or Mrs A. Student" Can, quite often actually, place an instructor into a situation where things get rather awkward, whether this is due to slovenly teaching technique, generally slack practice, or the sudden intervention of mechanical or unexpected meteorological phenomena. . .

 

I've had students freeze on the controls, I've no doubt others also have had this experience. . .

 

NO INSTRUCTOR SHOULD EVER ALLOW A STUDENT TO PLACE THE FLYING APPLIANCE INTO A CATEGORY OF FLIGHT WHICH COULD WELL RESULT IN FATALITIES. ( in an ideal world. . .! )

 

Happy days

 

Phil

 

 

OOOOOOh,. . . . . this sounds rather like it has some, . . er,. . . political undertones ?

 

Phil ( Sorry about the dots Gnarly- - - - -)

 

 

Donald Duck and Daisy Duck were spending the night together in a hotel room and Donald wanted to have sex with Daisy.

 

The first thing Daisy asked was, "Do you have a condom?" Donald frowned and said, "No."

 

Daisy told Donald that if he didn't get a condom, they could not have sex.

 

"Maybe they sell them at the front desk," she suggested. So Donald went down to the lobby and asked the hotel clerk if they had condoms.

 

"Yes, we do," the clerk said and pulled a box out from under the counter and gave it to Donald.

 

The clerk asked, "Would you like me to put them on your bill?"

 

"Thyit No!". . . Donald quacked,. . . . "I'll bloody well thuffocate!"

 

 

Robertson B1-RD is a strong challenger. One afternoon, I trained two pilots from scratch. No dual of course. They would just pull up every few minutes for further instructions. One of these pilots handled an engine failure the next morning, correctly swooping under the power line that was in his way. He died of natural causes after twenty years of hobby aviating. His mate is still going strong, with twenty three years accumulated.

Geez Nong,. . . that reminds me of a lad being taught how to fly his Tiger Cub, which was a single seat biplane, with the uinstructor riding a motorbike alongside him as he flew along the runway at a disused airfield at around 12 feet agl ! ! The instructor had rigged a megaphone onto the bike !!

 

The chappie had built the thing from a kit and had no idea how to fly it. So following several hours at the "Blackboard" and some dual in a 2 seat "Stick" GA aircraft, he finally got the hang of it. I don't think I'd ever want to teach someone like that unless the owner had a lot of hours already ! ! ! This was back in 1983 by the way. . .

 

There was a B1-RD for sale recently Nong. Problem with them was they could only really be flown in calm conditions. They were almost identical to the Frank Bailey designed Mustang that I flew a lot of hours in in 1982.The C150 has to be one of the most forgiving and strong aircarft to fly and my favourite Ab initio trainer. I have seen them stalled from 20' and slam onto the runway and still be flyable after inspection. Nothing in the RAA category would survive that.

 

My favourite easy to fly RA Aus machines are the WB drifter and the Foxbat, but the Foxbat has a veeeerrry weak nose wheel, but beautiful to fly. I cant comment on the Gazelle as I have never had the privilege of flying one.

 

* * *

 

In the tail wheel GA category my favourite is the Citabria 7GCBC followed by my Auster J1B, but neither of these are easy training aircraft, you have to use your feet aggressively if you want to stay on the runway.

Hi David,. . .

 

I believe that Cessna designed the "150" to withstand a static "Drop" from thirty feet ! ! ! I've seen some horrible things done to those airframes and they seem to keep on taking the punishment ! ! . . .But "Easy to Fly" isn't really a sensible description. . . . Easy to "LEARN IN" for the Ab Initio I agree. . . they DO forgive SOME things. . . !

 

Phil

 

 

I thought she got the a*se because she was hopeless and only the hopeless liked her.....but Australian politics is about hanging on to power (they put Kev back because they thought more people like him)....absolutely nothing to do with good governance.

Thanks for that M6. . . . . as I said, we get very little news about things Australian on the Brit media,. . . apart from floods and bushfires, unless the story is quirky or unusual. . . . although having actually seen a session of the Oz Parliament many years ago, I rather DID like the nice, rude, direct manner in which the members of the house spoke and addressed each other ! ! ! Unlike the UK Commons, where all insults are couched in "doublespeak" goobldegook.

 

Phil

 

 

If your passengers are scared you either have the wrong passenger(s) or the wrong pilot. Frightening the hell out of people takes some kind of narcistic bent. You want them to fly again.Regarding the Hempel crash. You don't even know if there was something wrong with the plane. Nev

AT LAST. . . . .

 

As I have already said, I do not know of Mr. Hemple's life, flying nor exploits, these obviously occurred after I had departed Australian shores for the UK in 1983. . . . but, reading through all of your posts, it became obvious that,. . . notwithstanding reports of the Pilot's medical history,. . .that SOMETHING COULD ACTUALLY HAVE GONE WRONG WITH THE AEROPLANE AT A CRITICAL MOMENT DURING THE ACCIDENT FLIGHT.

 

Thank you for highlighting this important point Nev.

 

All other posts are taken into consideration, especially those from posters who actually knew the pilot concerned. However, the kind of heated speculation I have read does NOBODY any good really,. . . not until there is a definitive result from any investigation which may be still ongoing.

 

Just my Five Pence worth.

 

Phil

 

 

Skyfox Gazelle. A blind 5 year old could fly one....... They are also very boring to fly.Having said that, when I was a hangar rat I watched a first solo pilot wheel barrow one into the ground and keep pushing forward again and again until the (very strong, Bill Whitney designed) nose wheel folded and down she went...........................the mind boggles.......

 

Speaking to a VERY experienced/renowned instructor a few years later I was rambling about how easy the Gazelle was to fly and he said something that I will never forget "that may be so but it will still kill you''

 

Some may think that's a bit morbid but he is right, the minute we start thinking we can just fluff along because the plane is so easy to fly and we've done it a million times and we know this and we know that, just tell yourself.........this plane could kill me in an instant if I don't respect it.

 

My 2 cents.....

Hiya David,. . . .

 

Can I just ask that you alter the instructor's comments you highlighted slightly to,. . ." It MIGHT well STILL kill you. . . . . ." I have flown several types of stick and rudder controlled machines over my short career, and I have never found one yet that does NOT have this inherent ability, IF . . . . . . you ask it to do something for which it was not designed. . . .ie,. . .input a control request which causes the aircraft to depart from it's design envelope, ( as students CAN often, and quite innocently often do. . . .)

 

Also, I must state that I have absolutely NO knowledge about the aircraft you mentioned either,. . . . but the theory seems to work with everything I've ever been priviledged to ride in. . . The only other comment I would leave is that I have NEVER ( Repeat as neccessary. . .) EVER been BORED,. . .whilst flying ANY aeroplane.

 

I can imagine someone who owns a VANS RV7 being a little "Laid Back" if he flew a much less sophistcated type, but BORED ? ? ? ? ? mmmm, not me mate, I love to fly ANYTHING.

 

Phil

 

 

The Foxbat is a very easy to fly aircraft.

Is it Bowlooks,. . .! It might be if you are already conversant with medium / high performance flying machines of differing types, BUT what about getting the prospective student appliance operator to get the airspeed right on the downwind leg ? If you don't get the Airspeed and Attitude AND the engine revs AND. . . the trim set correctly,. . . . then you'll be too fast on final and it will all go pear shaped. Very slippery airframe. But an altogether very well sorted and pleasant aircraft to fly. (NB. When you get the student to understand this ! ) It's OK for us old farts to use sideslips to get it right at the last minute, but I would never agree that it is an "Easy" aircraft to fly, for this, you need an aeroplane like a Marque One X'Air, or Cyclone AX3, . . . . I've no doubt there are other machines available in Australia which fit the same mould, . . . ie, I've never flown a "Drifter" nor have I ever seen one.

 

Phil

 

 

If I ever find myself near Staffordshire with a bottle of whiskey in hand ,I'm coming to your place to share it,,,,,I reckon you'd be full of stories ;-)

Actually Metal. . . .

 

I think that the thirty years has now expired on the O.S.A. , a version of which I once was asked to sign. . . ( Official Secrets Act. . . ) so now I COULD possibly recount some funny stories without fear of having to run away and hide in Equador,. . . ., BUT,. . . regrettably, I've forgotten most of them ! But you have to be very careful with all things Australian methinks, . . . I mean. . .A Prime Minister was booted out of office VERY recently there I gather, just because she had small breasts and large thighs,. . . ? [ Mind you,. . .she WAS born in WALES. . .]. . . maybe there were other issues involved in this too, but since I don't get most of your political news, I don't really know. . . . STILL,. . .it pays to be careful ? AND. . . .You probably wouldn't like Staffordshire much,. . .it rains a lot and has a large number of closed down airfields and is under the jurisdiction of the European Parliaments. . . . . . ( Very negative place. . .)

 

Phil

 

 

There was a "Similar" occurrence at Casey Airfield Berwick ( Vic) many years since, where Keith Hatfield's partner in the Groupair Flight Training company, had a "Party Piece" which consisted of a high speed approach to the runway to ground level, followed by a steep "Pull-Up" into a loop, which he landed off the end of. . . . .

 

One fateful day, . . .for reasons unknown, he got it wrong and didn't judge the low-level loop correctly,. . .airspeed ?. . . Wind . . .? Engine not performing as expected . . .? . . .who knows, . . . A VERY experienced pilot with decades of flight in his logbook. . . the aircraft contacted the runway very heavily in a flat attitude, whilst carrying a non - surviveable "G" loading. . . . and he and his passenger, the Lady company secretary. . . , both sustained broken necks from which they both died instantly.

 

There were no other apparent injuries to the bodies.

 

I gather that he had performed this "Trick" on numerous occasions, but nobody ever tried to stop him doing it, . . . . . . because he was 1) Half boss of the company, and 2) an extremely experienced pilot. I can't remember the type of aircraft involved, but then, I'm an Older citizen. Sorry.

 

Makes yer think dunnit.

 

Incidentally, I do not know of the man to whom this thread is dedicated, my apologies for that, but I have heard many similar tales of "Legendary" men coming to grief by pushing the envelope either a bit too far,. . . or once too often, and this makes me really sad.

 

Genuine condolences to the man's family and friends.

 

Phil.

 

 

Over a million ways that an aeroplane can kill you ---- WATCH OUT! Don

Geez Don, . . . and I thought there were only four,. . . . . . or,. . . maybe seven,. . . ?

 

Phil

 

 

Maj- this year must've been DeJaVue then......

I've given up Dejavu for lent Ball,. . . .it kept reminding me of places I thought I'd been to. . . . .

 

Phil

 

 

Hi Lior, and welcome to the forum.

 

I don't know anyone who flies armed here in the UK, I think it might be described as illegal, as no ordnace is allowed to be carried, even a FLARE PISTOL is actually against the law, as it is classed as a firearm ! But a mate of mine once had a forced landing and found he was in a safari park, with a few lions moving about ! A gun of some sort would be a good idea in those circumstances I think !!

 

Welcome anyway. Tell us more about your experiences, and how about some pictures too ? ? ?

 

Phil

 

 

Better than being a Toad's tool. Nev

Nev,. . . is that a variant on the story about the Good Fairy being pregnant,. . .? Apparently,. . . . she sat on a toadstool. . . . .

 

 

Flown one of its sister ships DHT. B-33. Beech have the flap and wheel knobs close together and if you are quick to retract the flaps and get the wrong one, the only thing left is the step on one side to hold the plane off the ground. Rather nice aeroplane. Nev

We had a wheel up landing a couple of weeks ago. The only injury was a bruised ego.

I've flown the old Vee tailed Bonanza, which is a similar machine, . . these had "Automatic" gear drop, for those drivers who forgot to include "Gear Down" in the standard downwind checklist,. . . this facility was, I believe, removed following a couple of court cases, where it either Didn't deploy,. . or deployed too late, or whatever,. . you know the USA and it's profundity of hungry lawyers. . .

 

The panel / control ergonomics can often be another accident waiting to happen, as Nev mentions above, I was always taught to leave the flaps alone until we had turned off the runway, crossed the hold line and stopped. This allows more time to concentrate FULLY on which lever you are pulling or pushing, leaving slightly less chance of inadvertant gear retraction.

 

I'm sure that those of you who have flown many hours in aircraft with retractable undercarriage will all have tales to recount on this subject. and I REALLY DO feel for anyone who got it wrong, referring to the post from Exadios above. . . ( Just as a matter of interest Ex,. . .does your "Handle" infer that whatever bunch of folks owned the aeroplane you scraped, are no longer your Adios ? ! ) sorry, . . not really funny.

 

Whilst flying a lot out of Casey Airfield at Berwick, ( Vic) I heard about a salesman who accidentally retracted the dunlops on the landing ground run at Essendon whilst demonstrating some sort of aircraft for a potential customer. . . OOPS. . . and I personally have very nearly landed a Lake Buccaneer on a hard runway with the gear up and the floats down. . . due to continual distraction from much animated passengers. . ( Yes, I know, I know, . . . totally unprofessional and a poor excuse . . .) let he who is without sin cast the first stone, etc. . . etc. . . so my old mate Jaysus said anyhow. . .

 

Phil

 

 

They probably wouldn't be able to start one of the older jiggers. These new ones are like cars and any dill can hop into one and get off the ground. It's proven every day. Nev

Is my memory failing OR. . .didn't some young twit nick a Cessna 172 some years ago and buzz it around Sydney harbour and the city ? ? ? One of my Oz military ( retired - editor's note. . .MOST of my friends are now retired ! ) friends said that the guy was really close to being shot down but the RAAF could'nt do it safely without causing "Collateral Damage" ? ? do any of you "older" aviators remember this one ? OR was it a "Pub Story". . .some of my mates are very good at those, especially the ex-military types. . .! [ Just have a peep at the A.A.R.S.E. - Army rumour service site ] and you'll see what I mean very quickly !

 

I once heard about a granny who was sitting in the passenger seat of a "Hand-propped" type, . . .and whilst the pilot was starting the aeroplane from the outside,. . .she hung her handbag on the throttle and the aircraft took off with just her in it.. . . ( That would have been a BRILLIANT deduction by the accident investigators. . . ! ) I didn't find out what the outcome was supposed to have been. . . but, as I said before, this was supposedly in the USA, so It's probably just another generic Pub story, used by old instructors to highlight the importance of chocks. . . and the equally vital briefing regarding. . ."DON'T BLOODY TOUCH ANYTHING ! " ? ( Sorry for drifting off the topic by the way . . .)

 

Phil

 

 

Just more stupid now I suspect, led by Odumbo and all. Back then they could even identify the enemy and figure out a precise strategy to deal with them.

I have to agree Gnarly. . . .

 

They didn't seem to have developed a sensible "How to deal with it" strategy in Iraq, Or Afghanistan, OR Somalia, I hope that they have learned something, ANYTHING from these disastrous interventions, along with our illustrious UK Government too,. . .IE, STAY THE HELL OUT OF SYRIA ! ! ! ! !. But I'll bet Four bottles of my favourite red wine that they both get involved in it somehow,. . . !

 

Phil ( in cynical mode )

 

 

I suppose this is now due to our old friend FUNDING.

 

In the past, I would think that funding for military projects in the States was given priority over other matters due to political pressure during the "Cold War"

 

Phil

 

 

This is a message to the jerk who stole my running shoes whilst I was on the bouncy castle. . . .

 

FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE GROW UP WILL YOU ! ! ! !